North vs South Korea Bullshit

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

South :

70 hours work week.

Extreme social pressure.

1 megacorpos running the country.

That's two dystopia.

I m rather intrigued on how they managed to do two extremes different hell.

There is no comparison to the backwardness and evilness of NK.

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

I didn't read the thread but I think both might be same level of hell at a few inches...

South :

70 hours work week.

Extreme social pressure.

1 megacorpos running the country.

That's two dystopia.

I m rather intrigued on how they managed to do two extremes different hell.

Would you rather live in South or North Korea?

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Any notion of ownership in China hinges on leasing it from ccp for a limited time.

That's not something to be proud of.

Edited October 21 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@PurpleTree Two hells. North and South for many. 
 

Still, South seems better.

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@PurpleTree Two hells. North and South for many. 
 

Still, South seems better.

I‘ve been to Seoul. Great city. Lots of fun. Great food, parties lots of fun, lots of freedoms, quite westenr in many ways.

Now i know people are chronically overworked and a lot of social pressure for Koreans etc etc. But you can live a great life there seemingly. Comparing it to North Korea in terms of hell is just silly trolling imo. 

[Leo Gura]

I've been to North Korean concentration camp. Great people. Great rats. Lots of fun. 5 stars!

Edited October 21 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

South :

70 hours work week.

I would chill out in North Korea rather than slaving out for hangsam in some south Korean shithole.

Going by the current demographic trends, South Koreans will eliminate themselves out of the gene pool by slaving your soul out to corporations like this.

[Thought Art]

@Bobby_2021 You’d be a literal slave. Starving to death and threat of being killed if you said the wrong thing.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not something to be proud of.

Yeah letting a few dudes own trillions while letting them milk you is surely the way forward.

You don't need to own stuff to enjoy it anyway so what's the big deal.

[Thought Art]

28 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I‘ve been to Seoul. Great city. Lots of fun. Great food, parties lots of fun, lots of freedoms, quite westenr in many ways.

Now i know people are chronically overworked and a lot of social pressure for Koreans etc etc. But you can live a great life there seemingly. Comparing it to North Korea in terms of hell is just silly trolling imo. 

Yeah, makes sense.

[Thought Art]

12 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Yeah letting a few dudes own trillions while letting them milk you is surely the way forward.

You don't need to own stuff to enjoy it anyway so what's the big deal.

Double standard there.

If we are all poor and starving it’s cool. 
 

But, if most of us aren’t and there is income inequality.. boohoohoo

Edited October 21 by Thought Art

[Nemra]

36 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I would chill out in North Korea rather than slaving out for hangsam in some south Korean shit hole.

Can you give more info on how you would go to NK and chill there?

Consider that you weren't born there, and you have the ability to choose where and how to live compared to NK people.

Edited October 21 by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

@Bobby_2021

You are not interested in investigating or questioning your ideology, which is antithetical to our work.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

On 10/20/2024 at 11:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

What is your evidence?

The evidence is the various graphs and charts I posted right above.

On 10/20/2024 at 1:31 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Meanwhile, South Korea: I tried to find a chart as convenient and easy to read as the chart above, but couldn't

According to recent data, South Korea exports around $683.5 billion in goods, while importing approximately $731.3 billion, resulting in a trade deficit of around $47.8 billion dollars; meaning South Korea imports more than it exports by nearly $48 billion. 

Key points: 

Exports: $683.5 billion

Imports: $731.3 billion

Trade deficit: around $47.8 billion 

Source: https://www.statista.com/topics/11969/imports-into-south-korea/

 

But what I'm trying to uncover is how much is this the result of central planning, and how much of this is the result of sanctions. Is Cuba a poor country as a result of the embargo, or Socialism? We know for a fact that sanctions have the capacity to destroy Capitalist economies.

Here's a chart of Iran's shifting GDP as a result of sanctions.

But we see the devastating effects that sanctions have on Capitalist countries, such as Iran.

Thanks to President Trump, that bastard, reinstating the sanctions, Iran had a difficult time even fighting COVID-19.

 

Edited October 22 by Husseinisdoingfine

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

There is no concept of "their" wealth in China. 

The elites who rich from capitalism never owned anything.

Everything is owned by the CCP. That is their system of governance.

You don't need to voluntarily give up wealth, when you don't own any in the first place. 

Any notion of ownership in China hinges on leasing it from ccp for a limited time.

But the thing is they do own it. Private ownership is one of the capitalist mechanisms they've introduced. How can we explain that there are 400 billionaires in China, most of whom have accumulated that wealth through private enterprises with companies in their own names. It's just that the state has a lot of oversight and regulation.

Again, lets say there was a commie aspiring country that had accumulated wealth, the wealthy elite got blissed out on meditation, became compassionately selfless and said to the state its time to bring this utopian communist dream into reality, then gave up their wealth.Or lets just say the state took it as their own and said it wasn't theirs any way lol. The problem of maintaining that wealth to be re-distributed and circulate is the problem communism runs into.

As stated in my message:

3 hours ago, zazen said:

 The problem then is that communism assumes the wealth it takes which was built off of capitalist mechanisms can then be sustained without those mechanisms. In simple terms, if capitalism is good at growing the pie, and communism divides the pie - how does it replenish the pie?  Wealth isn't static, once the pie is eaten its eaten. Communism fails at making pies and growing them due to lack of innovation and incentives.

Where Marx is right is that capitalism comes before communism, because Communism first needs something to re-distribute in the first place. But he shouldn't stop there - how does it then maintain there's something to be continuously re-distributed when you get rid of the mechanism that creates things to re-distribute. Once the pie runs out, another revolution will occur, capitalism will come back, and communists will say lets try again because the last time we didn't implement it properly.

Communism can work in a tribal settings but is much harder at scale where communal ties barely exist. But technological advancements could help resolve a lot of the issues. If work can be automated with AI and robots then we don't have to worry about incentives to motivate people to produce. Big data can be analyzed with AI to not mis-allocate resources and plug inefficiencies caused by central planning trying to manage such complexities. Blockchain and decentralization can help things not be authoritarian.

 

[AerisVahnEphelia]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no comparison to the backwardness and evilness of NK.

Yeh of course. But you have to admit that they are a pure exemple when it comes to the limit of capitalism.

If you got money I really advice you to try to live in Korea or Japan for 6 months.

I keep getting insights everyday on politic that O internet material would have teached me. 

In fact I start to believe that China might be less horrible to live than Korea.

All the Chinese people I met in Japan where at least way more enlightened and open minded even if in vacation. 

Of course that's a sample bias. But still they had to birth those mindsets there.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

3 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Would you rather live in South or North Korea?

Kill my self for sure with that choice.

I m from France even America is third world to me when it comes to life balance, open mindedness.

I might be a bit hard on it. America has peak genius but very non evenly distributed.

Edited October 21 by AerisVahnEphelia

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

Kill my self for sure with that choice.

I m from France even America is third world to me when it comes to life balance.

Ok 

[Novac08]

@Bobby_2021

Reading your posts brings back some nostalgia for the certainty I felt in my twenties, when I moved to Venezuela hoping to witness a new way of organizing society.

I don’t think China has escaped the inequality and exploitation you describe in the US. One striking part of China is precisely the disparity between the development and wealth in Shanghai versus other regions. The example you gave about Amazon workers and pee bottles would feel familiar to Chinese factory workers. And if China were to return to Maoist ideals, it might start resembling North Korea or Cuba. The demographic weaknesses that you attribute to South Korea are also present in China.

I think Leo is right—you’re not in a reflective phase when it comes to your politics. Right now, you're a soldier for your cause, and it’s not a soldier’s role to question or reflect. This stage is particularly appealing to young people and those with youthful minds, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but it does make this forum feel like an awkward fit.

The US isn’t purely free-market capitalism. I spent a decade working in government homeless services programs, and in that time, you learn a lot about why government can’t always solve certain problems.

What I wish for you is to go and experience communism, hopefully in some capacity that you will be able to get out. I think that is one of the most telling and terrifying parts of Communist societies - the fact that the unconverted are not able to leave. These are one-way walls. I've spoken to a few people who have lived in Cuba for a bit, and realized that it is rife with corruption, hypocrisy, mediocrity, and that most of the problems are self-inflicted. 

Ultimately, with time you may become open to seeing the complexities and contradictions in all systems—as Leo points out. It’s through real-life experience, not ideology, that we gain a deeper understanding of what truly works for people and what doesn’t. 

Edited October 21 by Novac08

[Davino]

In my country many heavy capitalists take a plane to live in the USA or a very business focused country nearby called Andorra.

Never I see my fellow communist camarades taking a plane to settle in Venezuela, Cuba or North Korea.

How come?