Leo’s overuse of spiral dynamics

[thedoorsareopen]

When Rust Cohle said "time is a flat circle," he was missing a dimension. The spiral is literally how you transcend that circle.

[Leo Gura]

God is a pretzel.

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God is a pretzel.

Make a new model with pretzels

[Leo Gura]

@UnbornTao I like that one

[Nivsch]

19 hours ago, Peo said:

So in order to go from stage orange to stage green you have to do a lot of stage orange stuff right? Like to get rich, start a business and have lot of casual sex.

Not necessarily. What matters is that you exhaust the stage's thinking structure in the neurological level. The external expressions aren't so important. For each person it will be a different content.

Edited October 17 by Nivsch

[Peo]

Why is everyone obsessed with climbing the spiral dynamics ladder? Why not take your sweet time at each stage and master each stage to perfection. I feel like there is a lot we can still learn and intergrate from lower stages like red, blue and orange. Personally i dont want to rush it. I will take my time with each stage. 

[Keryo Koffa]

@KoryKat Whatcha doin' with all that awareness anyway?

[Keryo Koffa]

1 hour ago, Peo said:

Why is everyone obsessed with climbing the spiral dynamics ladder? Why not take your sweet time at each stage and master each stage to perfection. I feel like there is a lot we can still learn and intergrate from lower stages like red, blue and orange. Personally i dont want to rush it. I will take my time with each stage. 

Welp, low awareness does get you in lots'a trouble...

Edited October 17 by Keryo Koffa

[Peo]

@Keryo Koffa

I have not attacked anyone, this just my prespective. Why do you say i am trouble?? Have i done something to offend you? If i did i am sorry. 

[Keryo Koffa]

Just now, Peo said:

@Keryo Koffa I have not attacked anyone, this just my prespective. Why do you say i am trouble?? Have i done something to offend you? If i did i am sorry. 

Hehe, it's just the english language, when I said "you" I meant the same as "oneself" or "one".
One can get oneself in a lot of trouble because the lower stages have a stronger identity and reactions.
Red can be very uncompromising, blue rigid, orange paradigm-locked, and green also obsessive.
So it's good to have a vantage point with some waking up to the higher stages even before shadow integration of the lower.

[UnbornTao]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@UnbornTao I like that one

Salty!

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Peo said:

I have not attacked anyone, this just my prespective. Why do you say i am trouble?? Have i done something to offend you? If i did i am sorry

You are right.

One anyway cannot really raise himself up but only to deal with his problems and Demons in a direct profound way. That is the only way to genuinely rise up with minimal shadow's footsteps.

Edited October 17 by Nivsch

[Ode]

There are not many frameworks of thinking that has helped me to understand the world more than spiral dynamics has. It's amazing tool, but I think it can also become a trap and I feel like that's a trap that I will walk into at some point if I have not already. 

Edited October 17 by Ode
Grammar

[Spiral Wizard]

On 10/16/2024 at 3:45 AM, AerisVahnEphelia said:

@Ayham I have a friend who smoked weed like an hardcore hippie + hair long.

Now he believe in Christ and has turned from hyper left to hyper right. 

Funny this definitely happen. But not sure it's related spiral dynamic. 

It makes sense from my lense, I've others models.

Can you share more about your models and why this makes sense? I'm curious!

[Spiral Wizard]

On 10/16/2024 at 5:45 AM, Alex4 said:

I genuinely feel that I have recently entered stage green. It takes a lot of time, guys. it has taken me about 7 years. It's one thing to intellectually understand the concepts that Leo talks about and agree with them, and it's another to integrate them into your inner being.

If anyone has questions on how to transition from Orange to Green, feel free to reach out to me, but for me, it boils down to the fact that someone in Stage Green is able to see reality in a broader way, without judging it based on what benefits them personally.

Going from Blue to Orange was quite easier. I actually did it even before knowing Leo, as society somehow predisposes you to it, and if you're not too stubborn, you can reach Orange. But going from Orange to Green has been insanely difficult, so much self-deception, prejudice, and not wanting to open my eyes to reality. Plus society doesn't help, since it usually has a lot of bias against Green (at least where I live). Let's say that society agrees with your selfishness.

It takes a lot of work guys, don't underestimate this shit.

100% agree. 5 years ago I always wanted to be stage yellow and in certain aspects you could argue that intellectually one part of me might have been there BUT we consist of many parts (psychological, emotional, spiritual, etc.). Most of which are hiding in our subconscious!

After a few years of spiritual and emotional bypassing I realized that my heart first needs and wants to fully experience Green.

Real embodiment of Stage Green means becoming Green as a whole being, with our heart and instinctual gut, not just the mind. 

This requires processing a lot of subconscious emotional pain that created all of the selfishness and self deception we see in stage Orange. It's fascinating how sneaky our subconscious mind is in even going as far as masquerading as a hippy but still fundamentally continuing the same underlying STRUCTURES of stage Orange.

I didn't realize this until I become a hippy, dreadlocks, living in Thailand, etc. and then starting to work with an emotional therapist/wizard/master who helped me discover so many subconscious programs and conditionings and more importantly get in touch with the pain that lies at the root of all of them.

Saying this probably won't actually point to the experiences that opened up so if this resonates, go down the rabbit hole and assume you have as little idea about emotional pain as you had about psychedelics before trying them the first time (if you have). Even if you have done psychedelics, Breathwork, therapy, and shadow work, there's a good chance there's a good chance it'll be an entirely new dimension of life to get in touch with true subconscious pain and conditionings.

I consider myself lucky. I don't think I could have discovered most of this without a wise conscious and experienced pain guide as a mirror. 

I still don't know where I'm at with green but certainly feel far away from yellow, emotionally. And can now see clearly how I actually don't event want to be yellow yet. There is SO much juice in Green. My wanting yellow as a teen was partly genuine curiousity but also a lot of escapism. 

Once you've stuffed your head with all the theory in the world. Most growing up is a result of cleaning up & showing up.

What an exciting journey! I'm glad I don't know shit!

When I recently visited a famous guru I was deeply humbled by the magnitude of his organisation and realized how little I actually know. It felt like a relief to my true self that my arrogant ego after all that learning, still actually isn't that far and great as it thought. Wonderful reality check to go out into the world and see what people have created and their actual impact, compared to endless mental masturbation, visions, and intentions. 

Don't talk, show me your stage. Demonstrate your being.

 

A rule of thumb could be: Unless and until you can't whole heartedly appreciate (+ would be willing and happy to live in integrity with that) what someone like Robin Greenfield says, you are not in Green: https://www.robingreenfield.org/mission/

 

"Behind every act of consumer convenience there is a burden that is placed on humanity, Earth, plants and animals elsewhere. I live simply to take responsibility for my actions and to not outsource my burdens upon others. Through globalization and industrialization, it is often impossible to know the impact of our actions. By living simply, I have much fewer needs and it is easier to meet these needs more harmoniously. Most of my needs are provided freely by my relationship with the Earth and humanity. Most of my needs come from inside of myself, such as my needs for meaning, purpose and connection.

Living simply is not a sacrifice for me. It is not about decreasing my own quality of life. Rather it is a pursuit of the highest quality of life. I do not believe that financial wealth and material possessions will make me happy or content. I believe that relationships, connection, skills and internal liberation will create the good life for me."

- Robin Greenfield

 

Edited October 18 by Spiral Wizard

[Leo Gura]

@Spiral Wizard Excellent!

[Spiral Wizard]

@Leo Gura 🙏🏾

[Spiral Wizard]

Jamie Wheal once said 'study the shit out of Spiral Dynamics and then forget about it in your daily life' or something like that.

It's a useful meta structure, most people haven't studied it enough & most people misuse it by judging themselves and others.

It's a great model, suck the juice out of it and move on. 

Handle it lightly like a tool. Do you always run around with a tool in your hand or on your head?

You are more free when you can see and experience life clearly without glasses.

It's fun, it can be helpful but don't forget... life is what happens outside of your thinking. 

 

Edited October 18 by Spiral Wizard

[Happy Lizard]

@Spiral Wizard I’ve always considered my self orange-green when I get asked where do you place yourself on SD, even though I understand Yellow and keep seeing more and more of it.

However the problem I think with how you put it is that most people don’t have the luxury to go full green - it’s literally just the last phase I need to be in to fully be at green. One teacher that I really trust mentioned that Jean Gebser- one of the first to create a developmental map before SD and Ken Wilber’s integral framework-  thought that It’s possible for people to skip levels, much like a kinesthetically talented child might skip stages in learning to walk. This doesn’t mean they didn’t learn; they just progress so naturally that it seems as if they bypassed earlier stages. I think It’s problematic to say you gotta go all they way or now way.

Edited October 18 by Happy Lizard

[Leo Gura]

Stalin once said, "Study Communism. Then forget it and back to killing your enemies."

Something like that.

Edited October 18 by Leo Gura