Leo’s overuse of spiral dynamics

[RightHand]

24 minutes ago, Stovo said:

Has any research been done on people's self reported spiral stage? 

You can only accurately assess your own spiral stage at tier 2, whilst tier 1 people trick themselves into thinking they're at tier 2.

Tier 2 and tier 1 aren't black and white distinctions. Just hearing about spiral dynamics and being open to it gives a "small part" of tier 2.

 

[Snader]

I get it. It's frustrating to see people (like Leo) labeling complex phenomenon or action as a stage of development, while you know it's not that simple.

And it never is that simple. It's just a useful tool to give a rough estimate of the situation and when it comes to SD the estimation is pretty damn accurate and inclusive, giving a surprisingly truthful framework to look at it. Feel free to make a more useful model, it's definitely possible to do and will be done some day by someone.

Using the SD framework it is always big picture and from there you have many ways to go deeper and many perspectives to approach from. As I've done that, I've noticed the SD framework holding its ground over and over again.

It works great when you try to understand why societal stuff happen and why people do what they do - and as always, in a very big picture scale.

Edited October 16 by Snader

[Ayham]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can see it accurately describes most people's level of development, especially at Tier 1. Tier 2 gets problematic.

Fair, you can see how society also developed over time from blue, to orange, to green.

One could also argue that certain societies were orange and became blue, or Iran for example which was very liberal and became...this after the Islamic revolution.
Or some materialist scientist, turned into a religious blue priest.
Or some hippie green person, became into a dogmatic blue religious person.
All of those happen in our complex society.

How would you argue that the levels in spiral dynamics are in that order?
You could say that someone is 40% orange, 60% green, and he goes back to orange unconsciously to fully integrate it, but that's not really falsifiable.

I could make a model as follows:
red, blue, green, orange

and it would be unfalsifiable the same way.

I am just curious to hear various inputs, from everyone.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Ayham said:

One could also argue that certain societies were orange and became blue, or Iran for example

This does not happen. Iran was never Orange.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

2 hours ago, Staples said:

I am a spiral dynamics ultra-violet hyper being. I have become so enlightened I shit insights and vomit wisdom.

Come to my private spiritual community, and you will have the privilege of sniffing my construct-aware farts.

😁💨

--

Sorry for the sarcasm, just letting off some steam after a shit day at work. Let's have some self-awareness and stop pretending us humans deserve to call ourselves wise now, yeah?

Pretty enlightened if you ask me

[royce]

4 hours ago, Majed said:

i am myself stage turquoise

wow

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Ayham I have a friend who smoked weed like an hardcore hippie + hair long.

Now he believe in Christ and has turned from hyper left to hyper right. 

Funny this definitely happen. But not sure it's related spiral dynamic. 

It makes sense from my lense, I've others models.

[Ayham]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This does not happen. Iran was never Orange.

Not sure, as far as I know, it was more liberal pre Islamic revolution

[thedoorsareopen]

"If you're not a liberal at 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 50, you have no brain."

[hyruga]

This is what happened when you tried to explain spiral dynamics to an audience whom large portion of them have never heard of it. 

 

Edited October 16 by hyruga

[Arthogaan]

2 hours ago, Sincerity said:

And people who talk about CORAL should have their mouths shut with permanent glue.

Hahaha.

Blue stage hates green.

But they all hate Glue stage.

Edited October 16 by Arthogaan

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This does not happen. 

A strong collective ego backlash can last a long time when intellectuals and critical thinkers who would recover the regress are targeted for that reason. 

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, thedoorsareopen said:

"If you're not a liberal at 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 50, you have no brain."

Yeah that kind of saying is also something I heard quite frequently.

I imagine part of that is a different survival bias. 

And the people that are 50 now are born 25 years earlier then the people that are 25 now so the cultural influences they grew up with and which significantly formed their personality are different. I dont know if this is accounted for in this observation.  

Edited October 16 by Jannes

[Alex4]

I genuinely feel that I have recently entered stage green. It takes a lot of time, guys. it has taken me about 7 years. It's one thing to intellectually understand the concepts that Leo talks about and agree with them, and it's another to integrate them into your inner being.

If anyone has questions on how to transition from Orange to Green, feel free to reach out to me, but for me, it boils down to the fact that someone in Stage Green is able to see reality in a broader way, without judging it based on what benefits them personally.

Going from Blue to Orange was quite easier. I actually did it even before knowing Leo, as society somehow predisposes you to it, and if you're not too stubborn, you can reach Orange. But going from Orange to Green has been insanely difficult, so much self-deception, prejudice, and not wanting to open my eyes to reality. Plus society doesn't help, since it usually has a lot of bias against Green (at least where I live). Let's say that society agrees with your selfishness.

It takes a lot of work guys, don't underestimate this shit.

Edited October 16 by Alex4

[Leo Gura]

@Alex4 Good! Spoken like a man who's done it.

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, hyruga said:

This is what happened when you tried to explain spiral dynamics to an audience whom large portion of them have never heard of it. 

 

I can stand TB. 

It's like nord-american people in general tend to think that talking exaggerated and even burdensome suddenly made them stronger and more respectable.

Edited October 16 by Schizophonia

[Peo]

@Alex4 So in order to go from stage orange to stage green you have to do a lot of stage orange stuff right? Like to get rich, start a business and have lot of casual sex. You just do it so much you get bored of it and move on to higher levels of the SD. I feel like this could maybe take 10 years at least or maybe more. So i dont unerestimate the work you have to do to get to stage green.   

So is this the correct way to go about it? 

 

19 minutes ago, Alex4 said:

If anyone has questions on how to transition from Orange to Green, feel free to reach out to me, but for me, it boils down to the fact that someone in Stage Green is able to see reality in a broader way, without judging it based on what benefits them personally.

I would like to know how you did it. 

[Alex4]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Alex4 Good! Spoken like a man who's done it.

Thanks to you  Now I'm in no hurry. I feel like I have 5-10 years to consolidate Stage Green horizontally.

[Leo Gura]

@Schizophonia

 

[Alex4]

2 minutes ago, Peo said:

@Alex4 So in order to go from stage orange to stage green you have to do a lot of stage orange stuff right? Like to get rich, start a business and have lot of casual sex. You just do it so much you get bored of it and move on to higher levels of the SD. I feel like this could maybe take 10 years at least or maybe more. So i dont unerestimate the work you have to do to get to stage green.   

So is this the correct way to go about it? 

 

I would like to know how you did it. 

I will send you a private message if you don't mind.