Leo’s overuse of spiral dynamics

[Majed]

I feel like leo overuse spiral dynamics. Like he milked this cow to death. It’s just a limited lens and way of looking at the world. There are millions of other ways to look at reality. Yet leo keep sacralizing it like it is the holy bible or something. 

[The Blind Sage]

It's certainly limited, but all lenses are not the same, it would be foolish to think so.

This particular lens is particularly useful, since it allows you to make sense of the bigger picture of human development on a societal level and an individual level and an astoundingly clear way. Notice the word useful, meaning it's value is relative to how well you can apply it and make sense of things.

He's pointed out its limitations plenty. When he uses the model he's not going to keep repeating it's limits each time he does it, that's on you to fill in the gaps and contemplate...

I hope your your view of SD is not based on Leos videos alone, that series is just the tip of the iceberg. There are books on applying SD to geopolitics as well as the SD book itself. Not to mention, other developmental psychology models exist as well

[Leo Gura]

If people would stop acting it I would stop using it.

[Lyubov]

it's his pov. what's wrong? look through lenses you prefer to explain things then.

[Majed]

@Leo Gura but aren’t people a fiction of the mind and isn’t spiral dynamics imaginary, it would be much more insightful to look at the world in new ways.

i guess i’m coming from an advanced perspective since i am myself stage turquoise, when you realize reality is mind and you master it, you’re basically stage turquoise.

Edited Wednesday at 06:02 AM by Majed

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Majed said:

@Leo Gura but aren’t people a fiction of the mind and isn’t spiral dynamics imaginary, it would be much more insightful to look at the world in new ways.

Yes. Absolutely!

SD is problematic, especially at Tier 2.

22 minutes ago, Majed said:

Since i am myself stage turquoise,

Are you?

[Nivsch]

@Majed A model will limit you only if you interpret it too literally and don't seek the implicit unique way it applies to you. The model's langauge is merely a pointer and not the thing itself.

Edited Wednesday at 06:40 AM by Nivsch

[Majed]

@Leo Gura yes thanks to your work a couple years ago i was still stuck in orange, then i moved to green, yellow and now turquoise. 

I did lots of meditation and contemplation. And now my mind and reality is totally different, I understand reality in a completely different way.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Majed said:

yes thanks to your work a couple years ago i was still stuck in orange, then i moved to green, yellow and now turquoise. 

I don't buy it. You can't go through that many stages that quickly.

Edited Wednesday at 06:45 AM by Leo Gura

[RightHand]

Never bypass the hippie stage 😎

I feel like green stage takes at least 5 years to go through, that's where you build solid inner game.

[Greatnestwithin]

the level of delusion in this forum is crazy. but kind of expected. @Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura well what helped me was that i dicovered your channel at a young age 16-17 years old, so I didn’t have as much bullshit to wheel out as someone who discovers your work at 30 years old or more. 

Even though i say i’m at turquoise i mean it in the sense that i deconstructed material reality in my direct experience, from my understanding that’s turquoise. 

And i still have infinite amount of growing and insights to have even though i’m at turquoise.

Edited Wednesday at 06:56 AM by Majed

[OmniNaut]

@MajedAnd this is why Ken Wilber pointed out the difference between Waking up and Growing up. (Next to cleaning up and showing up).

Spiral Dynamics is a model that is used for Growing up not Waking up. You have awoken yourself (if I believe it to be true), but that doesn't mean you're in Turquoise my friend. You can be awake in different SD stages, blue, orange, green, yellow, turquoise. If I do the math that means your in your early 20's, 21 to 23 something like that. That is just the age between where the brain is still developing and fully developed. This is the age bracket especially for men they are over confident, lack experience and think they can take on the world.
Get some more life experience first, before claiming Turquoise. It will put things more in perspective.

Although it is true that we're seeing a increasing development in stages. Heck my 14 year old nephew is already deeply in orange, setting up a webshop and YouTube channel. Claiming to be Turquoise at your age, is not impossible but a big stretch, and reading your posts don't convince me to think otherwise.

Maybe we need to introduce a new distinction here, Turquoise kiddies, for people who have (claimed) to woken up but still are in a lower SD development stage. 

To be honest, I think Leo is in part to blame for this mix up that we see now between waking up and growing up. SD strictly speaking is not about awakening or enlightenment. Although in his (pulled) Turquoise video he touches upon this, the rest of his video and comments on the forum are mixed between growing up and waking up when talking about Turquoise. So I'm not surprised about the confusion that arises with this colour.

[Staples]

I am a spiral dynamics ultra-violet hyper being. I have become so enlightened I shit insights and vomit wisdom.

Come to my private spiritual community, and you will have the privilege of sniffing my construct-aware farts.

😁💨

--

Sorry for the sarcasm, just letting off some steam after a shit day at work. Let's have some self-awareness and stop pretending us humans deserve to call ourselves wise now, yeah?

Edited Wednesday at 08:24 AM by Staples

[Stovo]

Has any research been done on people's self reported spiral stage? 

You can only accurately assess your own spiral stage at tier 2, whilst tier 1 people trick themselves into thinking they're at tier 2.

[Sincerity]

You can probably count on one hand the number of turquoise individuals here. I don't know who they are, I don't have anyone particular in my mind, but I am sure as hell this number is very low. The number of yellow people here is larger of course, but also still not THAT substantial.

This is an utter joke. I will never understand how people overestimate themselves so much, thinking they have reached their peaks. I, after starting self-development work in my youth and doing it for 8 years now, having had some mystical experiences and all that stuff, would consider myself green-orange AT BEST. And this is not because I'm slow, this growth rate is good and normal and I'm just not deluding myself about my actual stage.

And people who talk about CORAL should have their mouths shut with permanent glue. No one here has the slighest idea what coral actually entails (including me ofc).

Edited Wednesday at 08:35 AM by Sincerity

[Ayham]

@Leo Gura I have used spiral dynamics as a lens for long, it has been life changing, and reading Ken Wilber as well, but I would be curious to hear your answer if someone were to ask: how do you know spiral dynamics is not bullshit?

[RightHand]

5 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

You can probably count on one hand the number of turquoise individuals here. I don't know who they are, I don't have anyone particular in my mind, but I am sure as hell this number is very low. The number of yellow people here is larger of course, but also still not THAT substantial.

This is an utter joke. I will never understand how people overestimate themselves so much, thinking they have reached their peaks. I, after starting self-development work in my youth and doing it for 8 years now, having had some mystical experiences and all that stuff, would consider myself green-orange AT BEST. And this is not because I'm slow, this growth rate is good and normal and I'm just not deluding myself about my actual stage.

And people who talk about CORAL should have their mouths shut with permanent glue. No one here has the slighest idea what coral actually entails (including me ofc).

Don't disrespect our Coral kings 🪸 

[Staples]

3 minutes ago, Ayham said:

how do you know spiral dynamics is not bullshit?

It is very pragmatic.

And it is also bullshit.

The map is not the territory, but the map is still useful.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Ayham said:

how do you know spiral dynamics is not bullshit?

You can see it accurately describes most people's level of development, especially at Tier 1. Tier 2 gets problematic.

Edited Wednesday at 08:44 AM by Leo Gura