You are blessed to have a self

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Sine said:

What has to be given up is not the I, as most mystics suppose: this I is indispensable for any relationship, including the highest, which always presupposes an I and You. - Quote from I and Thou by Martin Buber 

Interesting , the I is that fundamental 

[UnbornTao]

On 10/19/2024 at 7:56 AM, Salvijus said:

Yes, it's objective. Ego is an energetic substance that is tangable, observable. This energetic substance has a certain density and quality to it depending on how dense one's ego is or how much a spiritual practicioner has dissolved it. The mass of energy can manifest in many shapes and forms in the body and in the psyche which are also observable and tangable.

This energy also functions as an anchor to the body. When you say "I" the word is pointing to something and doesn't just float in the air. That location is the anchor to your body.  That location is a legitimate location that can be traced down. It's because of that anchor that we feel if something happens to the body, it happens to "me" and as if we are "glued" to it. If that anchor is broken, that is when our sense of self expands to be Everything and Everywhere. (at least for a moment) 

So yea, both the ego and its location are a tangable and observable phenomena and not just a fancy philosophy. But sufficient awareness and practice is needed to start with so that awareness would be sharp enough to penetrate deep enough where one can brake the identity fully. And most people don't have that. So they jump to wrong conclusions that ego doesn't exist. But it's just lack of awareness in the end. 

What you described above might be what the assumption itself is about. Assumption isn't just intellectually fabricated; the self seems real and solid to us, so what is the act of assuming comprised of?

For example, at some point, your memory of yourself stops. What is that about?

We say that a body and a laptop are objective. They have shape and are physical. We can also consider non-physical "objective" realities, such as awareness. Where does the self stand?

Say the self both exists and does not exist. It exists as constructed, as the result of an intricate web of mental activity. It exists as that contextual invention to which we adhere and largely depend for our survival. And ontologically, its existence is illusory, an appearance--it is invented, assumed and adopted. It might be extrinsic to existence.

On 10/19/2024 at 2:26 PM, Sine said:

What has to be given up is not the I, as most mystics suppose: this I is indispensable for any relationship, including the highest, which always presupposes an I and You. - Quote from I and Thou by Martin Buber 

Not necessarily given up but seen through. As for relationship, that's the relative world of interaction, in which the self clearly comes into play. That is where it can be seen as a useful and convenient tool, perhaps even a necessary one. Self and other form the basis of relationship, yet what is the nature of each, existentially?

Edited October 21 by UnbornTao

[Salvijus]

50 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

We say that a body and a laptop are objective. They have shape and are physical. We can also consider non-physical objective realities, such as awareness. Yet where does the self stand?

I just told you in the previous comment. 

53 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

What you described above itself is what might be "assumed".

I was explaining things from direct experience and awareness, not assumptions and philosophies. 

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Try to recall as far back as possible any memory of yourself. At some point your memory of yourself stops. What is that about?

Having no memory of yourself does not disprove the existence of ego same way having insufficient awareness to locate the ego doesn't disprove it's existence. 

Edited October 19 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

Say the self both exists and not exists. It exists as constructed, as the result of an intricate web of mental activity, and it "exists" as that construction and contextual invention

This description of ego is not wrong but it's very superficial and lacks a lot of depth to it. 

[Sugarcoat]

The way I see it, the self has many layers to it, each layer is like a mental web of beliefs, they add density to the self. One can dissolve layers to oneself, after each one dissolves the self gets thinner, the sense of separation from environment gets thinner. You are both mental constructs, and this energetic sense of I’m here. Kinda, idk , just speaking from experience 

[Salvijus]

22 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

The way I see it, the self has many layers to it, each layer is like a mental web of beliefs, they add density to the self. One can dissolve layers to oneself, after each one dissolves the self gets thinner, the sense of separation from environment gets thinner. You are both mental constructs, and this energetic sense of I’m here. Kinda, idk , just speaking from experience 

22 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

You can grow the self with physical exercise , don’t ask me how I know this

I find my own reaction interesting to observe. It feels to me like I would probably agree with you no matter what you say  

[Sugarcoat]

Just now, Salvijus said:

I find my own reaction interesting to observe. It feels to me like I would probably agree with you no matter what you say  

Hahah nah I can say some outlandish things. But you agreed with what I wrote about the self in the first part?

 

[Salvijus]

12 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Hahah nah I can say some outlandish things. But you agreed with what I wrote about the self in the first part?

It's the most perfect thing I ever read

Nah, if I was to add something. I would rise the question why is it that the belief is so hard to shake off? Like I can intellectually understand that the ego is illusiory yet the belief that I'm the body is still ruling me and manifestation in my behavior and my psychology. So why the belief is so difficult to go beyond. If that question got answered, then the answer would have more depth and would add a layer of clarity of what the ego really is imo. But overall it was a good definition. 

Edited October 19 by Salvijus

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Nah, if I was to add something. I would rise the question why is it that the belief is so hard to shake off? Like I can intellectually understand that the ego is illusiory yet the belief that I'm the body is still ruling me and manifestation in my behavior and my psychology. So why the belief is so difficult to go beyond. If that question got answered, then the answer would have more depth and would add a layer of clarity of what the ego is imo. But overall it was a good definition. 

That’s a very good question. I have the same experience. That is why I say the self is much deeper than belief. Why do you believe you exist? Because it seems like you do, the belief doesn’t come from nothing it’s based on a deeper sense. The sense of “I’m here the world is out there” . What it is exactly is hard to say. It’s not like other beliefs like Santa Claus or aliens, it’s based on something that is fundamental to your everyday experience. 
 

the most fundamental beliefs are “I’m here” and “there is something” I would say. They go hand in hand, if you feel like you exist , then there automatically is a world (something) separate from you . Some non dualists even say when the sense of self disappears, the sense of a separate world does too, that’s why they say “nothing is happening” or “nothingness”

Edited October 19 by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

48 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I find my own reaction interesting to observe. It feels to me like I would probably agree with you no matter what you say  

When the Protestant germanic blond guys simp online  : « Ahah I’m so agree, we’re so the same 😁 »

When VAL THE FRENCH CHAD CATHOLIC SIMP :

 « Hey, look it’s funny 😁 »

Makes the helicopter with his penis as a courtship parade* 🗿

Edited October 19 by Schizophonia

[Salvijus]

15 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

the belief doesn’t come from nothing it’s based on a deeper sense. The sense of “I’m here the world is out there” . What it is exactly is hard to say. It’s not like other beliefs like Santa Claus or aliens, it’s based on something that is fundamental to your everyday experience. 
 

If you were to eliminate the vagueness and fuzzyness over what this fundamental thing is, It would become a master guru level answer. But I enjoyed what you wrote. It sounded like something I would say, hehe. Nice

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

If you were to eliminate the vagueness and fuzzyness over what this fundamental thing is, It would become a master guru level answer. But I enjoyed what you wrote. It sounded like something I would say, hehe. Nice

Thanks

[Salvijus]

22 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

When the Protestant germanic blond guys simp online  : « Ahah I’m so agree, we’re so the same 😁 »

When VAL THE FRENCH CHAD CATHOLIC SIMP :

 « Hey Nat, look it’s funny 😁 »

Makes the helicopter with his penis as a courtship parade* 🗿

Reminds me of my mother. I never disagree with her either lol. If there's anyone I would lose an argument against it's her

 

Edited October 19 by Salvijus

[ChrisZoZo]

On 15/10/2024 at 10:19 AM, PurpleTree said:

 

A blessing and a curse.

 

A curse you’ll be laughing when you get into the spirit realm again.

[Schizophonia]

58 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Reminds me of my mother. I never disagree with her either lol. If there's anyone I would lose an argument against it's her

 

Me i'm regularly disagree with my mother but i pretend the opposite because she's scares everyone.

[Salvijus]

The funny thing about life is, even if you're the president of the world, your mother still remains an authority over you on some level somehow. 

Edited October 19 by Salvijus

[UnbornTao]

@Salvijus  What do you make of being and self (or whatever terms used to describe what you are versus who you've taken yourself to be through programming, growing up, and learning? Are they the same? 

Quote

That which comes and goes, rises and sets, is born and dies is the ego. That which always abides, never changes, and is devoid of qualities is the Self.

-- Ramana Maharshi.

Here he's making that distinction, using self as being and ego as self.

Self "rose"; it is extrinsic to being--and perhaps paradoxically not different in nature, but this is beside the specific point we are dealing with now.

Edited October 20 by UnbornTao

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

@Salvijus  What do you make of being and self (or whatever terms used to describe what you are versus who you've taken yourself to be through programming, growing up, and learning? Are they the same? 

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

That which comes and goes, rises and sets, is born and dies is the ego. That which always abides, never changes, and is devoid of qualities is the Self.

-- Ramana Maharshi.

Here he's making that distinction, using self as being and ego as self.

Self "rose"; it is extrinsic to being--and perhaps paradoxically not different in nature, but this is beside the specific point we are dealing with now.

The way I see it is that there is only one Self. The expression of the Self can be pure and unobstructed (in which case it feels like a downpouring of Love) Or the expression of the Self can be distorted because of defilmemts in the body-mind conditioning due to false perception and false identity. Because of these defilement, when the pure light of the Self enters the body-mind system, the Light gets distorted into fear and self-grasping. The fear and self-grasping creates like a capsule where the pure flow of energy gets trapped. This captured capsule of energy is the entity in itself that usually goes by the name ego, with its own set of conditioning, fears, beliefs, values etc. As a practicioner begins to release self-grasping, false identity and limiting beliefs, the trapped energy begins to release itself and become restored in its original form (love and wholeness). If the entire ego capsule is released, there is an experience of being united with Everything and Everywhere and a sense of great Love. And a realization that all this love is the expression of the Self and you are That. 

You can also realize that all this love is dancing inside an infinite void. And that these are the two sides of the same coin. Sound and Silence. The Self in motion and the Self in potential. 

It's all One Self in the end. 

 

Edited October 20 by Salvijus

[UnbornTao]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The way I see it is that there is only one Self. The expression of the Self can be pure and unobstructed (in which case it feels like a downpouring of Love) Or the expression of the Self can be distorted because of defilmemts in the body-mind conditioning due to false perception and false identity. Because of these defilement, when the pure light of the Self enters the body-mind system, the Light gets distorted into fear and self-grasping. The fear and self-grasping creates like a capsule where the pure flow of energy gets trapped. This captured capsule of energy is the entity in itself that usually goes by the name ego, with its own set of conditioning, fears, beliefs, values etc. As a practicioner begins to release self-grasping, false identity and limiting beliefs, the trapped energy begins to release itself and become restored in its original form (love and wholeness). If the entire ego capsule is released, there is an experience of being united with Everything and Everywhere and a sense of great Love. And a realization that all this love is the expression of the Self and you are That. 

You can also realize that all this love is dancing inside an infinite void. And that these are the two sides of the same coin. Sound and Silence. The Self in motion and the Self in potential. 

It's all One Self in the end. 

 

Sounds good, thank you.