All meditation methods won't set you free

[Asia P]

 What do you think?

In summary he says that it is better to meditate without classical methods. Meditation just requires to be conscious in the present moment. And it can be done in any situation. Without the need of sitting alone in a quiet place.

[Ishanga]

8 minutes ago, Asia P said:

 What do you think?

In summary he says that it is better to meditate without classical methods. Meditation just requires to be conscious in the present moment. And it can be done in any situation. Without the need of sitting alone in a quiet place.

So someone puts up a video on Utube and they become an authority? Anyone can say anything about anything, why put value or credit too it..

Lets see, Yoga and Hinduism, Tao/Daoism, Buddhism, and many others, have been around for maybe 10,000yrs in some cases (some say Yoga alone is more than 80,000yrs old), and it doesn't work or isn't needed??

Some can realize the Truth/Reality with no effort, why is this? They went thru it before, came into this LIfe this way, that is why,

Others are "New Souls", they need Sadhana, Meditation, Yoga, to help them become Peaceful within, then from that Peaceful Experience Realization happens naturally..

One does not need Sadhana, but can they do it without it? Do I need a Car? No, but work is 25kms away one way, it makes my life easier, rather than walking to work, working 9hrs and walking home in the snow.. So I choose to use Sadhana to get to Realization within this lifetime.  Choose not to use it, and it may take many lifetimes, that is the choice we are given while here as Humans!

[manuel bon]

@Ishanga I did not listen to the video, but from what@Asia P said:

20 minutes ago, Asia P said:

Meditation just requires to be conscious in the present moment. And it can be done in any situation. Without the need of sitting alone in a quiet place.

"you should make your whole life a meditation", same way as Osho says. 

In my opinion, all the types of meditation are great, and with those we should combine present moment awareness, make our whole life a meditation.

[Ishanga]

4 minutes ago, manuel bon said:

@Ishanga I did not listen to the video, but from what@Asia P said:

"you should make your whole life a meditation", same way as Osho says. 

In my opinion, all the types of meditation are great, and with those we should combine present moment awareness, make our whole life a meditation.

Yes this is true, in basic essence everything can be a sadhana, but there are Specific Sadhana for certain purposes, for example, one will not have deep Realizations of Truth/Reality/Life without their Energies become more intense and active, doing present moment awareness won't make or help that too happen, it will calm things down, it will allow stress not too happen, bring one to more peace in life, that is a baseline point, peace is baseline, if Your not in peace, forget spiritual path, its like being starving hungry, do not talk or think Spiritual stuff when starving hungry, it won't work..

So for baseline starting point, present moment awareness is great! For more ontop of that, we need Energies to move, clear blockages, and other things have to happen, Specific Sadhana is needed for this...Yoga is the science of Sadhana imo...

[Breakingthewall]

Not so easy. A long path is needed. There are plenty of hidden shit in you, primordial fear, attachment, rejection, hate, lie... A beautiful panorama that you have to see in all it's magnificence. Then face the fear to the void, to the meaningless, the loneliness, the absolute nihilism, then be able to be absolutely honest with yourself and open yourself to yourself without reservation. Then, those ideas like: be on silent in the now and that's it, remember to me that quote of  Mike Tyson: everyone has a plan until they get a punch 

[What Am I]

1 hour ago, Asia P said:

What do you think?

In summary he says that it is better to meditate without classical methods. Meditation just requires to be conscious in the present moment. And it can be done in any situation. Without the need of sitting alone in a quiet place.

I think he's exactly right. Once you reach a certain degree of refined discernment between the subject and object, you can assume the condition of constant witnessing. At the point where you fully experience your subjectivity, duality collapses and the magic of awakening occurs. That's something that can and should be "done" at all times of the day.

Many great masters have made the same realization about their meditation path, where it's understood that the false sense of self is actually the one trying to meditate. The only way around this paradox is to allow the great release into 'what is'. Doing so will provide all the gifts associated with spiritual attainment, including full kundalini activation.

Someone had asked what I do for practice in the post below. It's basically a way to aim for the kind of thing described in the video.

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by What Am I

[Ishanga]

2 minutes ago, What Am I said:

I think he's exactly right. Once you reach a certain degree of refined discernment between the subject and object, you can assume the condition of constant witnessing. At the point where you fully experience your subjectivity, duality collapses and the magic of awakening occurs. That's something that can and should be "done" at all times of the day.

Many great masters have made the same realization about their meditation path, where it's realized that the false sense of self is actually the one trying to meditate. The only way around this paradox is to allow the great release into 'what is'. Doing so will provide all the gifts associated with spiritual attainment, including full kundalini activation.

Someone had asked what I do for practice in the post below. It's basically a way to aim for the kind of thing described in the video.

 

Agreed, but that point has to be reached, Sadhana is about reaching that point of constant witnessing...Until that happens, if its doesn't come naturally, Sadhana is needed!

[Ishanga]

In Martial Arts, Bruce Lee is a legend, he developed the concept of Jeet Kune Do, the Way of the Intercepting fist. its not a Technique, but more of a Philosophy of Fighting,  It basically says that one should be "naturally unnatural", if one is too bound by a particular Style of Martial Art, they become like a Robot, too mechanical, trying to "Look" a certain way, maintain a certain stance, punch or kick in a certain structure or pattern, this will make You too slow, too thought out. 

The counter point is that if one is too Natural, they do no training at all, their technique will be too unscientific, too inefficient, not connected or proper grounded.  So its a blending of the two, one learns the style, masters it, then lets it go, totally drops any idea of it, with the hopes that the Training made their fighting more effective, efficient in the process compared to no training at all..

Bruce Lee at the end of his life was Anti Style, he didn't believe in it at all,  but he already went thru the process, if it wasn't for his training in various Styles, he wouldn't have had the skills he had!

Sadhana is like this, one doesn't need it, but then one may not be able to get Realization at all, but if one gets too attached to Sadhana then it will stop all Realization as well...

Edited October 14, 2024 by Ishanga

[What Am I]

5 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

Agreed, but that point has to be reached, Sadhana is about reaching that point of constant witnessing...Until that happens, if its doesn't come naturally, Sadhana is needed!

That sounds pretty reasonable and makes a lot of sense. Standard meditation using techniques definitely has its place, and may even be able to advance you quicker in certain circumstances. Such as like you're mentioning, where the capacity for witnessing needs to be strengthened.

[What Am I]

3 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

In Martial Arts, Bruce Lee is a legend, he developed the concept of Jeet Kune Do, the Way of the Intercepting fist. its not a Technique, but more of a Philosophy of Fighting,  It basically says that one should be "naturally unnatural", if one is too bound by a particular Style of Martial Art, they become like a Robot, too mechanical, trying to "Look" a certain way, maintain a certain stance, punch or kick in a certain structure or pattern, this will make You too slow, too thought out.  The counter point is that is one is too Natural, they do no training at all, their technique will be too unscientific, too inefficient, not connected or proper grounded.  So its a blending of the two, one learns the style, masters it, then lets it go, totally drops any idea of it, with the hopes that the Training made their fighting more effective, efficient in the process compared to no training at all..

Sadhana is like this, one doesn't need it, but then one may not be able to get Realization at all, but if one gets too attached to Sadhana then it will stop all Realization as well...

Yeah, the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do is a good analogy for proper spiritual practice. I have a feeling the similarities to Bruce Lee's system aren't accidental.

[Ishanga]

3 minutes ago, What Am I said:

That sounds pretty reasonable and makes a lot of sense. Standard meditation using techniques definitely has its place, and may even be able to advance you quicker in certain circumstances. Such as like you're mentioning, where the capacity for witnessing needs to be strengthened.

Yes, and also as well a Mentor or Guru, they know what is needed for the Individual, some need a certain type of Sadhana, while other need little of it.  People cannot do what they think they need to do or like to do, they need to do what is needed, the Guru or third person view of things is wise at this point if one wants to go all the way on the Spiritual path, which is Liberation or Moksha!

[James123]

1 hour ago, Asia P said:

 What do you think?

In summary he says that it is better to meditate without classical methods. Meditation just requires to be conscious in the present moment. And it can be done in any situation. Without the need of sitting alone in a quiet place.

İf you sit darkness and silence for years than he is correct. 

[Ishanga]

1 minute ago, What Am I said:

Yeah, the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do is a good analogy for proper spiritual practice. I have a feeling the similarities to Bruce Lee's system aren't accidental.

Bruce was heavily influenced by Jiddu Krisnamurti and his anti guru approach to things, but both are needed imo

[What Am I]

Just now, Ishanga said:

Bruce was heavily influenced by Jiddu Krisnamurti and his anti guru approach to things, but both are needed imo

I've read a few of his books. I think Bruce Lee was 100% aware that spirituality is an actual human potential, as opposed to a simple intellectual pursuit. It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he was personally accomplished.

[manuel bon]

1 hour ago, Ishanga said:

Yes this is true, in basic essence everything can be a sadhana, but there are Specific Sadhana for certain purposes, for example, one will not have deep Realizations of Truth/Reality/Life without their Energies become more intense and active, doing present moment awareness won't make or help that too happen, it will calm things down, it will allow stress not too happen, bring one to more peace in life, that is a baseline point, peace is baseline, if Your not in peace, forget spiritual path, its like being starving hungry, do not talk or think Spiritual stuff when starving hungry, it won't work..

So for baseline starting point, present moment awareness is great! For more ontop of that, we need Energies to move, clear blockages, and other things have to happen, Specific Sadhana is needed for this...Yoga is the science of Sadhana imo...

Thanks for the nice explanation 

[Atb210201]

Very good.

Who wants to be set free?

Let me be in bondage if I must😌

[theleelajoker]

Concepts, techniques, methods for me are:

1) Like a boat. Once you crossed the river, you leave the boat behind. You're strong enough to swim without a boat? Swim.

2) Like the crumbs of bread in Hänsel and Gretel: Once you found the next one, the old one looses all his value. Moreover: If you look to hard for the crumb of bread, you miss the root in front of you, you stumble and you blame others for their flawed concepts lol

Edited October 15, 2024 by theleelajoker

[Ayham]

One needs to build up to that

[What Am I]

10 minutes ago, Ayham said:

One needs to build up to that

I'm not sure if it's strictly necessary. Teachers like Adyashanti and Ken Wilber attempt pointing-out instructions that bypass the technique phase and move right to "awareness being aware of awareness", to get into the Goldilocks zone of effective awakening. Whether all students are capable of that without prior effort is a good question though.

As a side note, a psychedelic like 5-MeO-DMT is the perfect companion to this sort of practice. In a typical state of unconsciousness, it can be very difficult for awareness to break free and actively perceive itself. But using 5-MeO-DMT, once you've seen where you're supposed to be aiming, it becomes much more accessible, even when you're sober.

[Ayham]

20 minutes ago, What Am I said:

I'm not sure if it's strictly necessary. Teachers like Adyashanti and Ken Wilber attempt pointing-out instructions that bypass the technique phase and move right to "awareness being aware of awareness", to get into the Goldilocks zone of effective awakening. Whether all students are capable of that without prior effort is a good question though.

As a side note, a psychedelic like 5-MeO-DMT is the perfect companion to this sort of practice. In a typical state of unconsciousness, it can be very difficult for awareness to break free and actively perceive itself. But using 5-MeO-DMT, once you've seen where you're supposed to be aiming, it becomes much more accessible, even when you're sober.

Yes you can be aware of awareness, or do self abiding without building up to good concentration or a calm mind, but it would be hard to maintain, something you only do during your session, and probably not as deep.

Calm the mind, then, do non dual practice such as self inquiry or being aware of awareness, then try to expand that to your day to day life.

I can't speak about psychedelics because I have no direct experience yet.