Lost in hyperreality. Please change my mind

[Wizardking]

On 14/10/2024 at 2:19 PM, Leo Gura said:

Look, don't get so moralistic that you worry about stealing a paperclip.

The world has been corrupt for 10,000 years and it will continue that way.

Great then I can continue stealing candy from my kids. 

Change of topic but I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, I want to help people with mental health and I'm going to have my own private clinic. I could do this without doing the masters degree in psychology but I would be taken more seriously if I was a licensed psychologist. Do you think the 5 years of study + 1 year of postgraduate practical training is worth it just so be taken more seriously? I think it's really stupid that people don't take people without degrees seriously but they obviously do

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Wizardking said:

Do you think the 5 years of study + 1 year of postgraduate practical training is worth it just so be taken more seriously?

You should not undertake such serious things for such shallow reasons.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[Wizardking]

@Leo Gura The reason is mainly that I would like to publish a book in the future and it would probably make a bigger impact on the world if people take the author more seriously. So I wouldn't say the reason is shallow. I want to help make the world better. 

[Thought Art]

@Wizardking Why do you want to write a book?

[Wizardking]

4 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Wizardking Why do you want to write a book?

I enjoy helping people, playing with ideas and creating things. I have made synopses for a couple books that I would like to slowly work on throughout my life. 

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Wizardking said:

@Leo Gura The reason is mainly that I would like to publish a book in the future and it would probably make a bigger impact on the world if people take the author more seriously. So I wouldn't say the reason is shallow. I want to help make the world better. 

You will be taken seriously if you do serious work, rather than chasing after being taken seriously.

Focus on your work rather than the image of your work.

If you work benefits from a degree, then that's the reason to get a degree.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[joeyi99]

On 10/13/2024 at 7:29 PM, Leo Gura said:

That's life. It has always been this way. Those in power dominate, abuse, and exploit those who aren't. Power is antithetical to truth.

Appreciate how serious all this is. This is a battle of life and death. You're in a jungle and everything wants to eat you.

@Leo Gura How can one possibly swallow this without getting cynical?

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, joeyi99 said:

How can one possibly swallow this without getting cynical?

Swallow your pride.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, joeyi99 said:

@Leo Gura How can one possibly swallow this without getting cynical?

Life is a very difficult thing to accept. Especially once you start to understand the extent of human corruption. Which is why most humans remain ignorant of it or subscribe to some kind of ideology or conspiracy theory. You don't want to understand how corrupt the world is and your role in it.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Life is a very difficult thing to accept. Especially once you start to understand the extent of human corruption. Which is why most humans remain ignorant of it or subscribe to some kind of ideology or conspiracy theory. You don't want to understand how corrupt the world is and your role in it.

Do you think its literally impossible to be high concious and build and run a billion dollar company?

Could Elon Musk not be enlightened and play the capialist game?

All our systems are so deeply interwined how many degrees of seperation can anyone truly be from some type of corruption or power dynamics. Even monasteries have abbots

Wahts your thoughts

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

Do you think its literally impossible to be high concious and build and run a billion dollar company?

The more I study, the more I realize how utterly corrupt mankind and all its systems are.

Running a public company is completely antithetical to consciousness and morality. Anyone involved in that work is utterly delusional and corrupt. If you weren't they would fire you. There is no room for truth, consciousness, or morality at those levels of power. It's all about survival.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The more I study, the more I realize how utterly corrupt mankind and all its systems are.

Running a public company is completely antithetical to consciousness and morality. Anyone involved in that work is utterly delusional and corrupt. If you weren't they would fire you. There is no room for truth, consciousness, or morality at those levels of power. It's all about survival.

Yeah I have been struggling with this recently myself. 

What is the solution though? Everyone is connected to this issue at some level, so how can anyone outside a monastery or working purely on donaiton operate in a moral or ehtical way.

And do the means ever justify the ends? Like someone like Musk, rather then building rockets he was helping humanity on the ground, maybe like gates, would this be justified?

Also do you not think we are evolving, and corruption is slowly diminishing. Even in the UK in past 20 years we have reduced alot of governmental corruption. Comapred to 20-30-40-50 years ago it has changed completely

Edited October 15 by bambi

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

What is the solution though?

I don't see a systemic solution. Mankind is in still in the dark ages and will be for a long time.

Individually you can try to minimize your involvement in it, but that won't scale to most people.

Ultimately you gotta accept your pig-like nature.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[Jayson G]

@Leo Gura How about a company of 10 people, with an owner focused on contributing to the world? I have a few companies where I hired people, pay them well, treat them nicely, and want to transform psychology, healthcare, etc. with AI solutions, and an app I'm developing with various mind tools. My highest priority is the betterment of mankind while also following my passions and curiosity and not creating surface-level solutions, without going too much into the details of that. 

I guess I'm asking what makes a company corrupt and delusional exactly?

[bambi]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't see a systemic solution. Mankind is in still in the dark ages and will be for a long time.

Individually you can try to minimize your involvement in it, but that won't scale to most people.

Ultimately you gotta accept your pig-like nature.

Can you highlight some of the corruption or truth values someone has to forfeit to operate in modern capitalism, beyond the obvious like corruption and bribery

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, bambi said:

Can you highlight some of the corruption or truth values someone has to forfeit to operate in modern capitalism, beyond the obvious like corruption and bribery

The most important insight I had about that, is that when you run a public company you are effectively taking on the endless survival attachment. You're not just attached to the survival of all your employees, but all the stockholders. This effectively makes it impossible to ever break free from survival because you have infinite mouths to feed endlessly.

In a small private company you can transcend survival by earning enough to feed a small number of mouths. But with a public company this is impossible because all your investors demand endless increasing growth. Which is equivalent to endless pressure to do evil. No amount of evil is ever enough in such a system.

So the #1 thing you must do to avoid evil is not make your business publicly traded.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[bambi]

Just now, Jayson G said:

@Leo Gura How about a company of 10 people, with an owner focused on contributing to the world? I have a few companies where I hired people, pay them well, treat them nicely, and want to transform psychology, healthcare, etc. with AI solutions, and an app I'm developing with various mind tools. My highest priority is the betterment of mankind while also following my passions and curiosity and not creating surface-level solutions, without going too much into the details of that. 

I guess I'm asking what makes a company corrupt and delusional exactly?

I think at high levels of conciousness you simply only want the best for people you arent looking to acquire anything from them or to change them in anyway, capitalism at its core is about extraction of productivty and value, in a hyper competitive environment, so to me thats why its antithetical for me

I think this could be migitate slightly with following principles:

The companies goals should be to help humanity at some level, not merely profit

Life both humans and animals should be the highest values -> staff, products, customers etc should be prioritized above profit

Equalising of monetary reward, everyones time and life is equal, no one should be paid more then anyone else, everyone is simply serving their role

Strict checks and adherence to supply chain quality, and suppliers. Ethical and humane standards across the whole chain

Humane treatment of staff, how people are hired, trained, and fired should all be done humanely

The company and the executive team exist to serve the staff customers and wider humanity, rahter then the other way round

These are just off the top of my head

[bambi]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

The most important insight I had about that, is that when you run a public company you are effectively taking on the endless survival attachment. You're not just attached to the survival of all your employees, but all the stockholders. This effectively makes it impossible to ever break free from survival because you have infinite mouths to feed endlessly.

In a small private company you can transcend survival by earning enough to feed a small number of mouths. But with a public company this is impossible because all your investor demand endless increasing growth. Which is equivalent to endless pressure to do evil.

LOL yes I agree. The only hope is there is nothing explcit in the charters that impedes progression away from evil. I mean what do you think about Google etc?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

what do you think about Google etc?

They are getting more and more evil every year as they run out of ideas but the survival pressure remains endless.

Edited October 15 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Jayson G said:

@Leo Gura How about a company of 10 people, with an owner focused on contributing to the world?

Yes, that's the best way to go about it.

Quote

I guess I'm asking what makes a company corrupt and delusional exactly?

Endless survival pressure.