I don't believe in solipsism

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

@Javfly33 I'm listening to the greatest minds in history. Not to psychedelic junkies, when you go and have 200 trips in 2 years it's because your running from something in the real world. Here’s how Jean-Paul Sartre, Albert Einstein, and Carl Jung might reacted to Solipsism. 

 

So relax with your 5369 trips per year. You're just getting lost in illusions. 

I´m done with you. You are too involved in your own misery to want to get out of it. 

[Exystem]

Well I kinda feel stupid just to reply to this thread but here we are

@TruthFreedom

When you dream, do you believe all the characters have their own thoughts? Do you believe they still exist when you wake up? Do you believe someone who tells you your dream wasnt real does not apply enough logic to his reasoning?

Don't believe in solipsism, it's not for you. The fact that you listened twice to Leos episode and still have no understanding of the matter could be a sign that your nervous system just couldn't handle the realization and you would have a psychotic breakdown. So better stay away from solipsism.

 

[Yeah Yeah]

@Exystem The characters of those dreams are inspired from real life - What dreams do babies have with minimal life experience to create characters though 

[Exystem]

@Yeah Yeah from a solipsists pov there is no real life and there are no babies having dreams.

Dreams occur on different layers. In the REM-phase you dream vividly, close to daily life experiences. In deeper sleep phases you are still dreaming, but more about abstract forms, diffuse feelings and ambiguous contents, according to scientific research. More like the low resolution, blurry scheme-style perception you would expect a baby to have.

[TruthFreedom]

45 minutes ago, Exystem said:

Well I kinda feel stupid just to reply to this thread but here we are

@TruthFreedom

When you dream, do you believe all the characters have their own thoughts? Do you believe they still exist when you wake up? Do you believe someone who tells you your dream wasnt real does not apply enough logic to his reasoning?

Don't believe in solipsism, it's not for you. The fact that you listened twice to Leos episode and still have no understanding of the matter could be a sign that your nervous system just couldn't handle the realization and you would have a psychotic breakdown. So better stay away from solipsism.

 

Hahaha, when I am fully sober, I can see clearly that WAKING REALITY is not a dream. My waking reality does not come to an end if I ask people in it if they are real. It does if I am dreaming, but not if I am awake. The very fact that you are arguing with me and I am arguing with you shows that we both exist separately and have different minds. 

I can test if this is a dream, I only have to believe it is a dream for a few moments, and if it IS a dream then it would come to an end because I am aware that it is a dream. Alas, I just did that now, and guess what, I am still here, so there you go.

Edited October 12 by TruthFreedom

[Exystem]

@TruthFreedom

Your whole reality would come to an end the moment you would actually get serious about it. But you believe talking to people would get you out of your dream.

I had many lucid dreams, it started when I was a child. Sometimes I had a nightmare and got the intuition it may be a dream. Then I did a technique and woke up. But it only worked a few times until the technique got worn out. My dream reality accomodated to my new level of awakeness/suspicion. In the end I had to line up to 10 different techniques to get out of the dream, it was a nasty process. Don't believe your dreams are made to make you realize it is a dream. You underestimate its power. Dreams are made to make you convinced they are real.
And don't expect that when you wake up from one dream, you are now in reality. I had inception style dreams, woke up 3 times in a row, each time realizing the dream nature beforehand again, but still dreaming.

The very fact that I argue with you shows that you keep fooling yourself.

11 minutes ago, TruthFreedom said:

I can test if this is a dream, I only have to believe it is a dream for a few moments,

How many moments are you willing to invest? You are not really serious about it, that's what I say. But you don't need to be serious, it's ok. From your pov: if you were dreaming, no one expects from you to be serious about waking up, so there is nothing wrong about believing the dream is real. No Zen master can blame you: You bad boy don't want to wake up!

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Ulax said:

Your mind could just be generating illusions

Generating an illusion implies a process that involves the whole reality, your mind is something, For a thought to appear, countless interconnections must occur at the quantum level, countless realities must be reflected and contrasted, a thought is as material as a stone. the idea of: reality is not material, it is mental, it is at the elementary level (I don't say it for you). the mental is material. There is no difference, it couldn't be more obvious. If something has a form, be it a stone or an idea, it is because there is an infinity of appearances or forms contrasting, reflecting, that idea or that stone, that is, outside the stone or the idea.

Edited October 12 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

I've told you my stance. All the people who do psychedelics end up at Solipsism, I wonder why.

I did psychedelic hundreds of times and it's not the case

[Ishanga]

On an "Experiential" Level Solipsism is true in a way, all Your Experience happens within You, None of Us have ever experienced anything outside of Ourselves, all our Senses are inward bound, they perceive what is outside and bring it too life within Ourselves, but our senses do tell us on a basic level that there is an "Outside" and its Real in a manner of speaking. On that level we are not alone and just Us, there are Others and they have their own internal Universe going on..

The use of language like Dream or Imaginary, just ignore it, tell them to drop a 100lbs brick on their foot, they won't do it, but its a dream, but it hurts and will cause suffering which they don't want to have, so that is real enough for Me, this idea that only I exist and everything else is Imaginary is Narcissistic to say the least!!!

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, Ishanga said:

The use of language like Dream or Imaginary, just ignore

The term dream in spirituality is completely wrong in my opinion, since it implies that reality is being created by a dreamer, and that it is not real, since there is something else more real. All this only leads to confusion, it is completely false.

The form is appearance, not dream. Appearance simply means that it is form, impermanent, relative. You could say that it is the same as a dream because a dream is also form and finite, there is no difference between a dream and a building metaphysically speaking, not because the building is imaginary but because imaginary does not mean anything. A dream or a mental idea is material but in another dimension of matter, it is energy. Anything with form is the same metaphysically talking, is relative appearance, movement relative to other movement, and the "dreamer" is not creating that movement, is being created by it

Edited October 12 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

There is no brain, and the body isn't real. There is no person having a life. There are no experiences and there is no world, not even on the inside. There is no one and there is no you to claim there is no one. There is no past and there is no future, there is not even a present moment because that implies a past and a future moment. There is no NOW either, because that implies time and that there is a THEN. Einstein and Jung and whomever else you claim to be so smart never existed and that's why they are not here to back up your claims about them. There is no movement and nothing is really happening. There is no one dreaming, nor is the Universe a mirror. There are no stars and no moon and sun. Jesus was never born and never died. My mother never existed or she would still be here. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

There is no brain, and the body isn't real. There is no person having a life. There are no experiences and there is no world, not even on the inside. There is no one and there is no you to claim there is no one. There is no past and there is no future, there is not even a present moment because that implies a past and a future moment. There is no NOW either, because that implies time and that there is a THEN. Einstein and Jung and whomever else you claim to be so smart never existed and that's why they are not here to back up your claims about them. There is no movement and nothing is really happening. There is no one dreaming, nor is the Universe a mirror. There are no stars and no moon and sun. Jesus was never born and never died. My mother never existed or she would still be here. 

Everything you claim to know are just thoughts repeating themselves and will be repeated by another illusory figure to come that will claim to know stuff. Knowledge is an illusion and it's all descended down from dead ancestors who themselves didn't know anything. There is nothing here it's all empty and there is no point of reference, no facts, no truths and nothing false.

Need me continue. Who is delusional now. Prove me wrong.

From an absolute perspective it's true, from a relative perspective, it's false. Both perspectives exist, and both are infinite. The relative perspective is an appearance, but exist as appearance. The absolute perspective is absolute, but means nothing in the relative. The absolute is ultimately true and the relative ultimately false? I'd say that the relative is just apparent, but real as an appearance. 

[Yeah Yeah]

@TruthFreedom Maybe you haven't convinced people enough in reality to actually break out the dream - Maybe you haven't gone all the way

[What Am I]

7 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

@What Am I I've told you my stance. All the people who do psychedelics end up at Solipsism, I wonder why. I've had 2 chemist friends in university, they started to make MDAM, one of them died because they had 2 kg of MDAM and they fucked something up during the chemical process. The one that lived took 50 LSD trips in one year. He's not the same person anymore, even after 6 years, and he's a Solipsist. I agree that we don't agree and that's a healthy thing to do. Psychedelics are like any other thing in life. Too much it's bad for you. If you drink 10l of water in a day you die. Any excess is bad, doesn't matter the substance. Go to Sad-Guru and tell him you can't meditate without 5 meo, he would slap you. 

Sure, but you're just describing some burnout kids who have no self-control and drove themselves into the ground with recreational drug use. I don't see why we're using them as exemplars of the spiritual realization. You're not going to get any arguments from me that using 2kg of MDMA is a very bad thing. I wouldn't even recommend 1mg of the stuff. I'm not a fan of LSD either.

But taking psychedelics out of the discussion, sober spirituality has been practiced for thousands of years. You seem to be ignoring the entirety of the perennial philosophy, which also comes to the conclusion of solipsism through mastery of consciousness. What exactly do you think meditation is, and where do you think it leads? Your whole argument against the primary spiritual revelation has been that psychedelics are bad for you, which doesn't really track logically since psychedelics are not at all a prerequisite to the experience.

[Thought Art]

On 2024-10-12 at 5:57 AM, TruthFreedom said:

Hahaha, when I am fully sober, I can see clearly that WAKING REALITY is not a dream. My waking reality does not come to an end if I ask people in it if they are real. It does if I am dreaming, but not if I am awake. The very fact that you are arguing with me and I am arguing with you shows that we both exist separately and have different minds. 

I can test if this is a dream, I only have to believe it is a dream for a few moments, and if it IS a dream then it would come to an end because I am aware that it is a dream. Alas, I just did that now, and guess what, I am still here, so there you go.

Or maybe that’s the depth of the self deception keep God thinking it’s not dreaming! Hehe

This logic you think makes sense doesn’t actually. 

Edited October 15 by Thought Art