2024 Election Discussion General

[El Zapato]

14 hours ago, Heaven said:

Hahaha I am more surprised everyday here.

people on the internet are becoming more like the Nazis 

It isn't about that, it is just demonstrably true.  Anti-Nazi would be a more appropriate appellation.  I would not wish harm on anyone.  The only thing I espouse is that we live in a global society and most righties are not able to accommodate that reality and it is due to their status as a genetic subspecies.  Not lesser or more just different.

[zazen]

On 18/10/2024 at 5:38 PM, zazen said:

People often think because a country is democratic, it means people have choice - but they only have a choice in certain things and not others. Mostly social / cultural issues but never security / corporatist issues. Though even social and cultural causes get co-opted by security and corporate interest for their own ends. 

The majority of people only have access to periphery democracy, not core democracy, or in other words fringe politics (socio-cultural) that doesn't involve core power structures (national security, corporate dominance). The democratic majority manage the margins while the minority manage the direction of the entire system at its core. 

This is why a lot of non Westerners perceive Western democracy as fake - because for them they've only ever seen one style of foreign policy play out for decades on end (sanctions, meddling, coups, bombs and drones). So when Westerners drop the D word of democracy as if it automatically means something good, non-Westerners recoil and respond - well not for me.

Just keep in mind, Trump and Kamala, or Republican or Democratic both represent and are captured by elites, just different factions - Oligarchic or individual elites vs Corporate or institutional elites. Oligarchich elites are more chaotic, but corporate elites also drain the population just over a longer time period and with more sophistication.

https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/the-choice-this-election-is-between

''Kamala Harris, anointed by the richest Democratic Party donors without receiving a single primary vote, is the face of corporate power. Donald Trump is the buffoonish mascot for the oligarchs. This is the split within the ruling class. It is a civil war within capitalism played out on the political stage. The public is little more than a prop in an election where neither party will advance their interests or protect their rights.

George Monbiot and Peter Hutchison in their book “Invisible Doctrine: The Secret History of Neoliberalism,” refer to corporate power as “housebroken capitalism.” Housebroken capitalists need consistent government policies and fixed trade agreements because they have made investments that take time, sometimes years, to mature. Manufacturing and agriculture industries are examples of “housebroken capitalism.”'

These two forms of capitalism are species of totalitarian capitalism, or what the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls “inverted totalitarianism.” In each form of capitalism, democratic rights are abolished. The public is under constant surveillance. Labor unions are dismantled or defanged. The media serves the powerful and dissident voices are silenced or criminalized. Everything is commoditized from the natural world to our relationships. Grassroots and popular movements are outlawed. The ecocide continues. Politics is burlesque.

 

Edited October 21 by zazen

[Husseinisdoingfine]

20 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Election Update: Donald Trump holds a press conference from the drive-through of a McDonald's

 

 

 

This remind me of when Leo compared political views to food preference, and said that Donald Trump has a "McDonald's style palate".

https://www.actualized.org/insights/why-bernie-sanders-lost

[Thought Art]

This guy.

 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Trump says he will tap Elon Musk to lead government efficiency commission if elected

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-adopt-musks-proposal-government-efficiency-commission-wsj-reports-2024-09-05/

 

 

Serious question: Is this a good idea? The basic premise of this, is that Donald Trump intends to create a 'commission of Government efficiency', to reduce the size of the Federal Government, and audit spending to cut out inefficient and wasteful spending.

 

[ryandesreu]

Nothing says “Make America Healthy Again” quite like an endorsement from the king of fast food himself, flipping fries at McDonald's. It's a real game-changer for public health! I'm sure his endorser, RFK, is thrilled!

[El Zapato]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

This remind me of when Leo compared political views to food preference, and said that Donald Trump has a "McDonald's style palate".

https://www.actualized.org/insights/why-bernie-sanders-lost

Amen to that...

[El Zapato]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Just keep in mind, Trump and Kamala, or Republican or Democratic both represent and are captured by elites, just different factions - Oligarchic or individual elites vs Corporate or institutional elites. Oligarchich elites are more chaotic, but corporate elites also drain the population just over a longer time period and with more sophistication.

https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/the-choice-this-election-is-between

''Kamala Harris, anointed by the richest Democratic Party donors without receiving a single primary vote, is the face of corporate power. Donald Trump is the buffoonish mascot for the oligarchs. This is the split within the ruling class. It is a civil war within capitalism played out on the political stage. The public is little more than a prop in an election where neither party will advance their interests or protect their rights.

George Monbiot and Peter Hutchison in their book “Invisible Doctrine: The Secret History of Neoliberalism,” refer to corporate power as “housebroken capitalism.” Housebroken capitalists need consistent government policies and fixed trade agreements because they have made investments that take time, sometimes years, to mature. Manufacturing and agriculture industries are examples of “housebroken capitalism.”'

These two forms of capitalism are species of totalitarian capitalism, or what the political philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls “inverted totalitarianism.” In each form of capitalism, democratic rights are abolished. The public is under constant surveillance. Labor unions are dismantled or defanged. The media serves the powerful and dissident voices are silenced or criminalized. Everything is commoditized from the natural world to our relationships. Grassroots and popular movements are outlawed. The ecocide continues. Politics is burlesque.

 

Sorry, but more nonsense.  Life is so enervating.  It can be quite complex and the above guy is apparently exhausted.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

2 hours ago, El Zapato said:

Amen to that...

I really recommend you, as well as everyone else on this forum, watch that blog post. Its' incredibly insightful and was instrumental in helping me understand the voting patters of my fellow Americans.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/why-bernie-sanders-lost

[El Zapato]

To say this guy is a blatant propagandist is way too kind.

 

Shahid Bolsen

Shahid King Bolsen became involved with the company after Detained In Dubai took up his case in 2012. Bolsen admitted to killing a German engineer he met online in 2006 and escaped from prison. Bolsen has been accused of inciting violence against Americans and American businesses in Egypt as recently as 2015 which he denied in an interview with Stirling.

According to The New York Times, Bolsen is quoted as saying "The idea is disruption without bloodshed, I condemn the loss of life and the use of violence against people". But, he added, if a few lives are lost to help prevent needless deaths at the hands of security forces, "sometimes it is a price to be paid." Bolsen claims that the question was focused on property damage not loss of life.

Edited October 21 by El Zapato

[El Zapato]

23 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I really recommend you, as well as everyone else on this forum, watch that blog post. Its' incredibly insightful and was instrumental in helping me understand the voting patters of my fellow Americans.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/why-bernie-sanders-lost

I watched it long enough to recognize that Leo was reflecting my thoughts and opinions.  He is an amazingly intelligent fellow ...  

[zazen]

@El Zapato What’s nonsense and what isn’t. The main point, including from Chris Hedges substack: is that we get to vote on socio-cultural issues but don’t get a democratic vote on security / corporatism - or anything that can affect the core power structure which benefits a few at the expense of the many.

There is an overarching apparatus of elite control that goes unchallenged. Trump postures as fighting this establishment except that he just wants to reshuffle it with his own. It’s elite musical chairs.

Whether you have a technocratic, globalist elite or an oligarchic nationalist elite - both are part of a system that prioritizes wealth extraction, control, and consolidation of power at the expense of the public. One parasitic group comes waving the rainbow flag, the other comes waving the nationalist one.

Both factions will control levers of the state to maintain the status quo, and the battle between them is more about which version of elite control prevails than about dismantling or diminishing that control altogether.

Republicans overestimate Trump’s ability or willingness to challenge the system in any meaningful way, while Democrats naively believe that their version of elite control will serve the public good. In reality, both sides are caught up in different forms of exploitation that ultimately benefit the ruling class at the expense of everyone else.

That guy addresses his history and those claims here : https://youtu.be/-BIebD_JgMA?si=xzis7SA-Fhz_5Jnk

Address the message rather than the messenger. You haven’t provided your logic behind right wingers even being a subspecies yet.

 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Despite Biden's flaws on Gaza, he's still objectively the more peaceful candidate.

 

[DocWatts]

THINGS YOU CAN DO:

Vote (vote early, if you can).

Don't just vote for president! Down ballot races will be extremely consequential, regardless of if Harris or Trump wins. (Even in a worst case scenario, having more Democrats in control of state governments and in the US House and Senate will make it harder for Trump to carry out his fascist agenda).

Make sure friends and family have a plan to VOTE (-if- they're not planning on betraying their country for a fascistic con-artist, that is). Encourage them to vote down ballot.

By extension, know who's running as your local representative, who is running for your state's supreme court, along with any proposals on your state's ballot.

If you have the time, consider canvasing or phone banking.

Edited October 21 by DocWatts

[El Zapato]

15 hours ago, zazen said:

@El Zapato What’s nonsense and what isn’t. The main point, including from Chris Hedges substack: is that we get to vote on socio-cultural issues but don’t get a democratic vote on security / corporatism - or anything that can affect the core power structure which benefits a few at the expense of the many.

There is an overarching apparatus of elite control that goes unchallenged. Trump postures as fighting this establishment except that he just wants to reshuffle it with his own. It’s elite musical chairs.

Whether you have a technocratic, globalist elite or an oligarchic nationalist elite - both are part of a system that prioritizes wealth extraction, control, and consolidation of power at the expense of the public. One parasitic group comes waving the rainbow flag, the other comes waving the nationalist one.

Both factions will control levers of the state to maintain the status quo, and the battle between them is more about which version of elite control prevails than about dismantling or diminishing that control altogether.

Republicans overestimate Trump’s ability or willingness to challenge the system in any meaningful way, while Democrats naively believe that their version of elite control will serve the public good. In reality, both sides are caught up in different forms of exploitation that ultimately benefit the ruling class at the expense of everyone else.

That guy addresses his history and those claims here : https://youtu.be/-BIebD_JgMA?si=xzis7SA-Fhz_5Jnk

Address the message rather than the messenger. You haven’t provided your logic behind right wingers even being a subspecies yet.

 

Hedges, though he has a good heart is still looking for it. If substack means it is not him then that would explain the nonsense.  Corporatism sucks and it does infiltrate everything but the left does not support it, they play the game to the level required and they play because there is no choice.  Play or die, it is that simple.

Edited October 22 by El Zapato

[El Zapato]

12 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Despite Biden's flaws on Gaza, he's still objectively the more peaceful candidate.

 

Trump is not anti-war, he is pro-authoritarian.  If no one opposes them, there will be no war but is that the solution global society is looking for?  I certainly hope not. 

[El Zapato]

12 hours ago, DocWatts said:

THINGS YOU CAN DO:

Vote (vote early, if you can).

Don't just vote for president! Down ballot races will be extremely consequential, regardless of if Harris or Trump wins. (Even in a worst case scenario, having more Democrats in control of state governments and in the US House and Senate will make it harder for Trump to carry out his fascist agenda).

Make sure friends and family have a plan to VOTE (-if- they're not planning on betraying their country for a fascistic con-artist, that is). Encourage them to vote down ballot.

By extension, know who's running as your local representative, who is running for your state's supreme court, along with any proposals on your state's ballot.

If you have the time, consider canvasing or phone banking.

Here in Texas to get rid of the psychopath Ted Cruz is my fondest hope.  He is one of many in Texas but the populace has to start somewhere.

[Nemra]

20 hours ago, El Zapato said:

Sorry, but more nonsense.  Life is so enervating.  It can be quite complex and the above guy is apparently exhausted.

His explanations of gender are religious and messed up as he has religious interpretation of the world, and he views Islam as a thing that needs to be conserved at all costs, and being different (Western Muslims) is a perversion. He is quite a dogmatic anti-Westerner Muslim. Regarding politics, I agree with him about a few things.

What's interesting is that the Western world has influenced his views. I think he won't admit that Western countries are more developed.

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[El Zapato]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

His explanations of gender are religious and messed up as he has religious interpretation of the world, and he views Islam as a thing that needs to be conserved at all costs, and being different (Western Muslims) is a perversion. He is quite a dogmatic anti-Westerner Muslim. Regarding politics, I agree with him about a few things.

What's interesting is that the Western world has influenced his views. I think he won't admit that Western countries are more developed.

 

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

His explanations of gender are religious and messed up as he has religious interpretation of the world, and he views Islam as a thing that needs to be conserved at all costs, and being different (Western Muslims) is a perversion. He is quite a dogmatic anti-Westerner Muslim. Regarding politics, I agree with him about a few things.

What's interesting is that the Western world has influenced his views. I think he won't admit that Western countries are more developed.

yes, no doubt...I don't like people like that.  He is the worst.

[zazen]

4 hours ago, El Zapato said:

Corporatism sucks and it does infiltrate everything but the left does not support it, they play the game to the level required and they play because there is no choice.  Play or die, it is that simple.

Democrats were initially for the people and less for corporations, but over the decades they have embraced corporate interests and become embedded with them. They are part of the establishment which they now benefit from and claim to want to reform. More progressive voices who push against corporate domination are marginalised.

Like you said, 'they play because there is no choice' - doesn't that confirm the initial point which is that people don't have a democratic choice with regards to corporate dominance or national security? Corporate dominance is the status quo, neither party is challenging it, but both sides think they are.

MAGA thinks their draining the swamp, but their just changing who sits in it. Dems don't realise their even in one, let alone that it needs draining. This doesn't mean socio-cultural issues aren't important and to not be voted on. But just to have a realistic view on what voting does or doesn't do.