2024 Election Discussion General

[Husseinisdoingfine]

@realDonaldTrump

Quote

I am thrilled to announce Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as The United States Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS). For too long, Americans have been crushed by the industrial food complex and drug companies who have engaged in deception, misinformation, and disinformation when it comes to Public Health. The Safety and Health of all Americans is the most important role of any Administration, and HHS will play a big role in helping ensure that everybody will be protected from harmful chemicals, pollutants, pesticides, pharmaceutical products, and food additives that have contributed to the overwhelming Health Crisis in this Country. Mr. Kennedy will restore these Agencies to the traditions of Gold Standard Scientific Research, and beacons of Transparency, to end the Chronic Disease epidemic, and to Make America Great and Healthy Again!

https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1857170020427595797

[Raze]

I’m starting to think America is in big trouble.

When Trump won in 2016 there was a surge of resistance from the left, while it had annoying wokeness it may have helped. Currently they seem totally crushed and demoralized. The Bernie bro stuff seems to have really hurt young male support of the left and I don’t know if it’s coming back, and whereas after 2016 liberal media reported record views they’re now reporting huge viewership drops, even in alternative media, and they were already having issues under Biden. There really is not going to be much opposition to trump. He also doesn’t seem to have any moderating influenced in his appointments as the neocons may be more reasonable on domestic issues they are being put in charge of foreign policy where they are not moderate. On the other hand the populist republicans who may be moderate on foreign policy issues are being put un charge of domestic issues where they are more extreme.

It’s not like trump actually has a huge mandate, he basically maintained the same amount of votes as in 2020, dems just massively dropped off. 

If we have a serious crisis like war and Iran or something I feel the country might snap. 

Edited November 15 by Raze

[Emerald]

On 11/7/2024 at 11:21 AM, Leo Gura said:

Because progressives want impossible things and in the meantime they shit on liberals, thus empowering fascists.

Progressives are useful idiots for fascists.

It doesn't much matter if a Democrat is progressive or an establishment loving liberal, they will always be called a utopian socialist who wants impossible things. So, let's not give them any more ammo.

So many people are claiming that Kamala lost because she "went too woke", when she didn't say anything about anything that could be construed as woke and ran as a Republican-light candidate. And she deliberately avoided saying anything woke at all.

So, anything left of center-right gets labelled as Progressive Utopian Socialist. So, it's safe to say that Progressives aren't the problem, because they haven't even had representation since Bernie Sanders ran on his internationally moderate positions that most developed nations already have. They are just a useful scapegoat to blame for the rise in Fascism.

And if you think that Progressivism leads to Fascism, you have things backwards. Progressives and Fascists happen to arise together as political forces, but one is not the cause of the other.

There are large scale economic conditions that arise that make the status quo untenable for a sizable portion of the population.... and when this happens, the establishment gets mistrusted and rejected. And the society clamors for change. This is part of how society progresses and moves forward.

And some people blame the corporations, billionaires, and oligarchs for the economic problems and become Progressives.

And others blame immigrants, Jewish people, women, the LGBTQ, etc. for all the problems in society and become Fascists.

But in the case of the recent election, the reason why Trump won is because ALL incumbent parties in developed nations lost their elections. And that's the first time that's happened in recent years.

So, let's not go pointing fingers at Progressives for the rise of Fascism because that's just a useful scapegoat so that the establishment further entrenches itself in paradigms and practices that are out of alignment with the majority of people... which continue to be stacked against the average person and in favor of large corporations.

[Bobby_2021]

 

3 hours ago, Raze said:

I’m starting to think America is in big trouble.

When Trump won in 2016 there was a surge of resistance from the left, while it had annoying wokeness it may have helped. Currently they seem totally crushed and demoralized. The Bernie bro stuff seems to have really hurt young male support of the left and I don’t know if it’s coming back, and whereas after 2016 liberal media reported record views they’re now reporting huge viewership drops, even in alternative media, and they were already having issues under Biden. There really is not going to be much opposition to trump. He also doesn’t seem to have any moderating influenced in his appointments as the neocons may be more reasonable on domestic issues they are being put in charge of foreign policy where they are not moderate. On the other hand the populist republicans who may be moderate on foreign policy issues are being put un charge of domestic issues where they are more extreme.

It’s not like trump actually has a huge mandate, he basically maintained the same amount of votes as in 2020, dems just massively dropped off. 

If we have a serious crisis like war and Iran or something I feel the country might snap. 

Lefty media ecosystem got wiped clean.

[Leo Gura]

Kamala was not too woke.

People are just misinformed fools.

But far-leftists who refuse to vote for Biden over Trump are useful idiots to fascists.

You can be progressive and still vote strategically for centrist liberals. That's what I do. It's not at all hard. But if your leftism has turned into ideology, then it is hard for you.

Edited November 15 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Kamala was not too woke.

People are just misinformed fools.

But far-leftists who refuse to vote for Biden over Trump are useful idiots to fascists.

You can be progressive and still vote strategically for centrist liberals. That's what I do. It's not at all hard. But if your leftism has turned into ideology, then it is hard for you.

It wasn't just far-leftists who withheld their votes. A significant number of moderates, Independents, and 2020 Biden supporters also abstained, feeling utterly disillusioned by the unprecedented volume of misinformation from right-wing propaganda sources, including X, which portrayed Harris and the Democratic Party in an extremely negative light.

Btw, only about 1.6% of voters across the country voted for third-party presidential candidates, which is pretty much the same as the percentage of voters who voted for third-party presidential candidates throughout the whole country in 2020. Also, even if Harris got all of the votes that Cornel West, RFK jr., or Jill Stein got in each of the swing states it still wouldn't have been enough for her to win all of the swing states she would've needed to win the Electoral College.

So, there really weren't any third-party spoilers who ruined this election just like there weren't any who could've ruined it for Biden in 2020.

Edited November 15 by Hardkill

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Kamala was not too woke.

People are just misinformed fools.

But far-leftists who refuse to vote for Biden over Trump are useful idiots to fascists.

You can be progressive and still vote strategically for centrist liberals. That's what I do. It's not at all hard. But if your leftism has turned into ideology, then it is hard for you.

Of course Kamala wasn't too woke. That's the point I was making.

But it didn't stop people from saying that about her and projecting that onto her.

Really, anyone on the left (whether they're a progressive or establishment center right Dem) is going to be called a Utopian Socialist Communist who wants kids who identify as furries to have litterboxes in the classroom and wants a 50% income tax on the middle class to fund sex change surgery for toddlers.

So, if anyone who runs as a Democrat (even if it's Joe Manchin) is going to be labelled a crazy utopian progressive that wants unreasonable unrealistic things... we might as well run a Bernie Sanders type. 

But the majority of progressives do vote for the Democrat. And it certainly wasn't progressives that were responsible for Trump's victory.

It was just that suburban white men and hispanic men who came out for Biden in 2020 stayed home, while Trump got roughly the same number of votes that he did in 2020.

So, it's a misattribution of blame that always gets levied at progressives. But it was just that the Kamala Harris campaign didn't get as many men out to vote as Biden did during the last election.

Edited November 15 by Emerald

[Hardkill]

4 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Of course Kamala wasn't too woke. That's the point I was making.

But it didn't stop people from saying that about her and projecting that onto her.

Really, anyone on the left (whether they're a progressive or establishment center right Dem) is going to be called a Utopian Socialist Communist who wants kids who identify as furries to have litterboxes in the classroom and wants a 50% income tax on the middle class to fund sex change surgery for toddlers.

So, if anyone who runs as a Democrat (even if it's Joe Manchin) is going to be labelled a crazy utopian progressive that wants unreasonable unrealistic things... we might as well run a Bernie Sanders type. 

But the majority of progressives do vote for the Democrat. And it certainly wasn't progressives that was responsible for Trump's victory.

It was just that suburban white men and hispanic men who came out for Biden in 2020 stayed home, while Trump got roughly the same number of votes that he did in 2020.

So, it's a misattribution of blame that always gets levied at progressives. But it was just that the Kamala Harris campaign didn't get as many men out to vote as Biden did during the last election.

Elon Musk and other right-wing billionaires turbocharged the right-wing propaganda to manipulate public opinion to an unbelievable scale, portraying her as 'too woke,' a scary figure, or incompetent due to her race and gender. Meanwhile, this hyper right-wing messaging machine effectively brainwashed millions upon millions of voters, leading them to dismiss all of Trump's crimes and completely downplay the fact that he was a truly failed president and has always been a total fucking loser all of his life!

Edited November 15 by Hardkill

[Emerald]

Just now, Hardkill said:

Elon Musk and other right-wing billionaires turbocharged the right-wing propaganda to manipulate public opinion to an unbelievable scale, portraying her as 'too woke,' a scary figure, or incompetent due to her race and gender.

I'm sure that that had a lot to do with it. 

It's telling that it's white men and hispanic men that stayed home, which are the demographics that are most likely to consume media that has been peppered with tons of right wing propaganda... even if these men are not themselves right wingers.

And even though they didn't vote for Trump, all the negative characterizations of her likely convinced them to abstain from voting. 

[Bobby_2021]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

might as well run a Bernie Sanders type. 

This but not woke. Bernie can take a lot of Trump votes too. Lots of people miss that. 

Establishment figures are wrecked. Trump in 2016 single-handedly defeated the clinton, bush. Sealed the deal. Anti establishment figures are the only way out if they want to win.

Else the economy has to be doing well, which I don't think is happening anytime soo for most of the people.

1 minute ago, Hardkill said:

incompetent due to her race and gender.

Race had nothing to do with her incompetence.

[Hardkill]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I'm sure that that had a lot to do with it. 

It's telling that it's white men and hispanic men that stayed home, which are the demographics that are most likely to consume media that has been peppered with tons of right wing propaganda... even if these men are not themselves right wingers.

And even though they didn't vote for Trump, all the negative characterizations of her likely convinced them to abstain from voting. 

Right! Actually, I think white men showed up as much as they did in 2020, but more so for Trump of course. It was really both black men and Latino men who did not show up as much this time around as much as they did for Biden in 2020. Just like how those voting blocs didn't show up for Hillary Clinton in 2020 as much as they did for Obama in 2008 and 2012.

This is a tragic consequence of the historic decline in trust in mainstream media and factual news reporting. Most people no longer believe in real news anymore. What's even more frightening is that most people don't realize what's fake news vs. real news anymore.

Oh btw, the Washington Post is essentially dead now. Jeff Bezos has now totally corrupted it after he bought it. Do not ever subscribe to it or if you are a subscriber of WaPo, then you need to unsubscribe from it ASAP. 

CNN is declining and I fear that MSNBC, which is still one of the few good TV news shows left, may not last long because of their declining ratings too.

Edited November 15 by Hardkill

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

This but not woke. Bernie can take a lot of Trump votes too. Lots of people miss that. 

Establishment figures are wrecked. Trump in 2016 single-handedly defeated the clinton, bush. Sealed the deal. Anti establishment figures are the only way out if they want to win.

Else the economy has to be doing well, which I don't think is happening anytime soo for most of the people.

Race had nothing to do with her incompetence.

You're a real right-wing troll, aren't you?

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

This but not woke. Bernie can take a lot of Trump votes too. Lots of people miss that. 

Establishment figures are wrecked. Trump in 2016 single-handedly defeated the clinton, bush. Sealed the deal. Anti establishment figures are the only way out if they want to win.

Else the economy has to be doing well, which I don't think is happening anytime soo for most of the people.

I think that lots of people are looking for anti-establishment figures for sure.

And the rule with people's evaluation of painful or uncomfortable situations is always operating with the philosophy of, "Different is better than better."

That's true in marketing... and it's true in politics too.

If a person is not content in the status quo, they will seek change. And change of any kind looks good to the untrained human eye if there is a big resistance to the status quo.

So, in difficult economic times...  even if the anti-establishment politician is terrible and the establishment politician is much better by comparison, a person is going to prefer the candidate that represents the most change.

So, there is a space there for a real positive change from an anti-establishment figure... but the same space can be taken up by an anti-establishment politician to erode the positive elements of the system and to create more problems.

[Hardkill]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I think that lots of people are looking for anti-establishment figures for sure.

And the rule with people's evaluation of painful or uncomfortable situations is always operating with the philosophy of, "Different is better than better."

That's true in marketing... and it's true in politics too.

If a person is not content in the status quo, they will seek change. And change of any kind looks good to the untrained human eye if there is a big resistance to the status quo.

So, in difficult economic times...  even if the anti-establishment politician is terrible and the establishment politician is much better by comparison, a person is going to prefer the candidate that represents the most change.

So, there is a space there for a real positive change from an anti-establishment figure... but the same space can be taken up by an anti-establishment politician to erode the positive elements of the system and to create more problems.

Even though he was already voted out of office for having failed miserably in 2020......

I really can't believe how many stupid people we have in our country who have completely lost their God damn minds!

Edited November 15 by Hardkill

[Bobby_2021]

38 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

You're a real right-wing troll, aren't you?

You are so out of touch that it isn't even funny.

[zazen]

16 hours ago, Joshe said:

Nazi flags and full-throated support for Putin and Hitler are the extremes and the fringe, but hate for non-whites and LGBTQ is the norm, not extreme.

I was born in America and been here my whole life. 38/yr old white male whose lived in several different states, never been on the left, have known and hung around many people. I'm just telling you the way it is. It's not bias. I don't care about left-wing ideology. This is just reality. 

There actually is a lot of truth to the left's talk of racism and hatred of LGBTQ. You might even say those normal elements you like to call extreme, are what drives most of them to the left to begin with. They don't go over to the left out of political ideology, but rather, they go opposite of that which hates them. 
 

Do you think it’s more prejudice rather than hate? Hate and disdain evoke images of active hostility and intense emotions. Perhaps it’s more broadly prejudice that exists along with ethnocentric tribalism due to less urbanisation, exposure and education. If hatred existed in most Republicans surely even a small portion of minorities or LGBTQ wouldn’t feel comfortable supporting or being among them.

Prejudice and ethnocentrism don’t hold the same level of personal animosity as hate - they’re just psychological by products of familiarity to a group.

[Bobby_2021]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Kamala was not too woke.

People are just misinformed fools.

But far-leftists who refuse to vote for Biden over Trump are useful idiots to fascists.

You can be progressive and still vote strategically for centrist liberals. That's what I do. It's not at all hard. But if your leftism has turned into ideology, then it is hard for you.

Kamala was not woke. Trump is not a fascist either, although he has some flavour of it. 

That's enough for people to exaggerate it to extremes.

[LSD-Rumi]

JFK Jr. is such a piece of shit, He kissed Trump's nasty ass so he could get some position in his administration. It all makes sense now. 

[Nemra]

17 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

JFK Jr. is such a piece of shit, He kissed Trump's nasty ass so he could get some position in his administration. It all makes sense now. 

And then people focus on Kamala as being a DEI hire. Lol.

[sholomar]