2024 Election Discussion General

[Scholar]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The monopolization of media is the single biggest development in the 21st century which no one is taking seriously. It's going to have major negative consequences for generations to come. This is just the tip of the iceberg. A handful of companies who care nothing about truth have hijacked the world's entire media apparatus and no one even noticed.

Finally you guys are waking up, I've been pestering this forum about it for years!

 

The question now is, what exactly do we do about this? It seems like every other issue is meaningless because of how impossible solving anything is in this environment.

[Scholar]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's amazing how quickly people forget that all these minority groups had zero rights just a few decades ago and were demonized as lepers. Now everyone acts like that never happened and never needed to be fought against.

I had a conversation with someone in relation to consanguinamory rights, and while they agreed that we are violating peoples rights today, they basically said there is nothing we can do about it because in the end the billionaires control everything, and the only reason why LGBT people have rights is because billionares engage in culture wars.

Socialist brainrot is a thing as well, sadly.

Edited Tuesday at 11:26 PM by Scholar

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Those "woke distractions" procure civil and minority rights. Don't dismissed them so flippantly.

Without those "woke distractions" gay people would be locked in prisons.

It's amazing how quickly people forget that all these minority groups had zero rights just a few decades ago and were demonized as lepers. Now everyone acts like that never happened and never needed to be fought against.

Dipshits like David Rubin can sit on YT and complain about wokeness without even an ounce of self-awareness of how woke activists gave him his gay rays.

I‘m not talking about gay rights activists  but the recent woke movement. The ones who cry about white masculinity and need safe spaces and turn hollyweird to shite. Seems like a distraction while wall street and big tech fill their pockets and gobble up media.

Edited Tuesday at 11:28 PM by PurpleTree

[Scholar]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I‘m not talking about gay rights activists  but the recent woke movement. The ones who cry about white masculinity and need safe spaces and turn hollyweird to shite. Seems like a distraction while wall street and big tech fill their pockets and gobble up media.

The more you resist, the more it persists.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Scholar said:

The more you resist, the more it persists.

That’s what rapists say or Nazis in the 1930s.

[Yimpa]

In other news, a Republican lawmaker is trying to make it illegal for trans people to use public bathrooms. 

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/19/nx-s1-5196116/capitol-transgender-bathroom-ban-nancy-mace-sarah-mcbride

When you realize that many conservatives act like high school bullies wearing business suits.

[Scholar]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

That’s what rapists say or Nazis in the 1930s.

But in this case we have an explanation for why that is the case. I'm honestly too lazy to write it all out, but basically you cause a solidfying of identity by attacking them, and by giving no good faith credence and shaming them, you further isolate them making them want to resist against the tides of normalcy.

There are more reasons but like I said.

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, Scholar said:

But in this case we have an explanation for why that is the case. I'm honestly too lazy to write it all out, but basically you cause a solidfying of identity by attacking them, and by giving no good faith credence and shaming them, you further isolate them making them want to resist against the tides of normalcy.

There are more reasons but like I said.

 Honestly i don’t care that much if the US is gobbled up by tech billionaires etc. if you can’t resist and get lost in the distractions, so be it. You had a chance to unite (like with occupy movement etc.) but as i said the woke movement stuff is imo mostly just a distraction. Wall street etc. probably love the division. 

Edited Tuesday at 11:55 PM by PurpleTree

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The monopolization of media is the single biggest development in the 21st century which no one is taking seriously. It's going to have major negative consequences for generations to come. This is just the tip of the iceberg. A handful of companies who care nothing about truth have hijacked the world's entire media apparatus and no one even noticed.

While conservatives are bitching about stupid things like trans people, gays, and illegals, the heist of the century is going completely unnoticed. This is the real crime of conservatism. It's all just bullshit games of distraction from the real issues.

If we had a serious populist politics, all these Techbros would be crucified for their epistemic crimes against humanity.

How did the people in the Soviet Union escape from the perpetual communist propaganda they were in? Can that be applied in some way to get us out of the current information doomloop we are in?

Edited yesterday at 12:00 AM by Hardkill

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The real reason Musk left the left is because the left is about redistribution of power, and Musk wants to be free to wield power at his whim.

As Musk accumulated power he saw that the left was going to challenge him while the right was not, since the right welcomes authoritarians.

Musk was legitimately afraid that the left was bringing in thousands of immigrants to swing states to swing the states to left.  Making it ultimately a one party system and abolishing democracy.   I sincerely believe he actually believed that.  The irony is by supporting Trump he has done entirely the same thing now.  Only difference is he has control now.  So you're right but not for the reasons you think you are.  He truly believed the left had the mentality of wiping out the right.  The scary part is its quite feasible that they did.  If you think the left is innocent you're sorely mistaken.  Look what they did to Bernie.  So you shouldn't paint with such broad strokes.  Good vs evil.  It's much more fluid than that.

 

Edited yesterday at 01:02 AM by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Musk was legitimately afraid that the left was bringing in thousands of immigrants to swing states to swing the states to left.  Making it ultimately a one party system and abolishing democracy. 

That just shows you how delusional he is.

There is no danger of the left abolishing democracy, especially when the alternative is Trump.

Quote

 I sincerely believe he actually believed that. 

Yeah, he's scinerely corrupt.

That's what self-deception is.

Quote

the left had the mentality to get rid of the right.  The scary part is they did.

This is nonsense.

No one was getting rid of the right. These are rationalizations your mind makes to justify supporting right-wing bullshit.

Illegals are lesser developed people. They are conservative by nature, not progressive.

No Mexican is coming to turn America socialist and trans. Wokeness is a homegrown white phenomenon. It's not being imported from the 3rd world.

Edited yesterday at 01:08 AM by Leo Gura

[Jodistrict]

The MSM was overwhelmingly negative to Trump, calling him a dictator and fascist, but he still won.  That shows that people didn’t believe what use to be - not to long ago - considered the voice of truth.  MSM has lost its credibility.  Furthermore, Kamala Harris even had the endorsement of Dick Cheney, and she still lost.  Abolishing the freedom of speech isn’t the way to go.   All the democrats have to do is dump some of their nuttier wokeism nonsense, as well as, treat young men with respect rather than demonizing them.  As James Carville, a democratic strategist said, it will take one election cycle to wash out the stench, and the democrats will be back. 

[Inliytened1]

 

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

This is nonsense.

No one was getting rid of the right.

 

I agree that is a huge stretch and a conspiracy theory which is the kind of crap you find on Rogan except the scary part is now you have a guy on there that has a lot of influence in the government.   However again it would be foolish to assume the left is all good apples there are plenty there with a survival agenda and that is to be the dominant party whatever the cost.   It would be foolish to assume otherwise.  

Edited yesterday at 01:11 AM by Inliytened1

[Yimpa]

Dr. Wizard of Oz has been chosen to lead the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services

[Yimpa]

Here is how the US voted every time leading up to the 2024 election

 

[whh2222]

12 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Dr. Wizard of Oz has been chosen to lead the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services

a tv president appoints a tv doctor in our tv society. 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

While conservatives are bitching about stupid things like trans people, gays, and illegals, the heist of the century is going completely unnoticed. This is the real crime of conservatism. It's all just bullshit games of distraction from the real issues.

I do have a serious question, that being of illegal immigration.

Before anyone accuses me of being an apologist for Trump, or a xenophobe, I'm just asking a question. I myself don't know the proper answer to this, and I'm looking for other people's input.

But isn't illegal immigration a problem?

A while ago I spoke to an actual American diplomat who worked in South America, his job was to deal with asylum cases. He would interview people claiming asylum, and listen to their refugee claims. The migrants would give various reasons for claiming asylum status, such as; I'm being hunted down by a criminal organization, there's a threat to my life, a gang is after me, etc...

So what this diplomat would do, was he and his team would call the police departments of where these migrants were from, only for the police departments to reveal that the gang which is supposedly hunting them down never had a presence in the region where these migrants claimed to be from. These are not refugees, these are economic migrants posing as refugees, telling lies about threats to their lives to claim asylum status. 

Then this diplomat I was talking to then made the point, while wanting a better life for you and your family is admirable, most of the world lives on less than two dollars a day. Is the United States expected to import 50% of the global south?

 

 

It's incredibly expensive to host so many migrants. New York City would host migrants in luxury hotels, such as the Roosevelt Hotel, pay for their food and medical expenses. NYC had a program to supply migrants with prepaid debit cards to buy food, this program was recently ended because it cost the city too much money. 

The city's overall costs to provide shelter, food, health care, and education to migrants are projected to be:

• $1.98 billion on housing and rent
• About $2 billion on services and supplies
• Nearly $500 million on food and medical costs
• Another $500 million on IT, administrative, and other costs

The city's migrant crisis costs are expected to exceed $5 billion over a three-year period ending June 30, 2025. Mayor Eric Adams has said that he expects the costs to reach $10 billion over that period. 

https://nypost.com/2024/08/13/us-news/nyc-migrant-crisis-costs-will-crack-eye-popping-5-billion-on-shelters-security-and-food/

Despite this high cost, so many cities, especially in California have become sanctuary cities.

The “sanctuary" city of Chicago spent $300 million on illegal migrants. Interestingly enough, its budget for next year also has a shortfall of $300 million, which the mayor tries to plug with a $300 million increase in property tax. The city council voted it down with a vote of 50 to nothing. The mayor is now working on another proposal with an increase of $150 million. Being a “sanctuary city “ is not cheap and taxpayers will be paying for it.

And of course, there's also crime.

https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1858587682969903439

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1857110814848888922

 

Even if you don't think that an increase of undocumented migration causes crime, which it does, the very fact that someone crossed the border illegally is itself a crime. Sanctuary cities are harboring criminals, by this logic. 

And then there's cultural shock, which Leo addressed. 

https://www.actualized.org/insights/when-the-left-goes-too-far-bonus

Quote

Immigrants Have Lower Development:

This is a really important point that leftists overlook, which is a huge factor for immigration policy. Generally speaking, immigrants from 3rd world countries will be significantly less developed cognitively, morally, and culturally than Americans or Western Europeans. This is not at all a racist or xenophobic thing to say. This developmental deficit is not genetic or racial, it is cultural and educational. For example, the average fundamentalist Muslim will be significantly less spiritually and morally developed than the average Scandinavian. It is not Islamophobic to say this.

It is legitimate to be concerned that too many immigrants at low stages of Spiral development will dilute and drag down the center of gravity of development of a 1st world country. Of course far right-wingers will love to seize on this point to justify their racism and xenophobia, nevertheless, the point is factually true and presents problems for unrestricted immigration. Northern European and Scandinavian countries have experienced the effects of this recently with a flood of immigrants from Syria and the Middle East who are not bad people, but they ARE less developed than your average Scandinavian. Scandinavia is stage Green while Syrian refugees are stage Purple, Red, and Blue. This presents significant integration problems. It is not racist, xenophobic, or bigoted to be concerned about these integration challenges, but leftists will make the mistake of assuming it is.

One of the reasons we cannot have open boarders like some extreme far leftists want is because there would be too many immigrants with such low stages of development that it would create serious problems for 1st world countries. We would not be able to maintain 1st world standards of living because people at low stages of development do not even accept basic liberal ideas such as freedom of speech, freedom of religion, women’s rights, children’s rights, gay rights, etc. For example, for a fundamentalist Muslim to integrate in the US he would have to be okay with people criticizing and drawing cartoons of the prophet Mohammad. But he will not be okay with that, which will create chaos.

Note: I say this as an immigrant from Russia. Russia definitely has a lower level of development than America.

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Husseinisdoingfine

[Joshe]

29 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

But isn't illegal immigration a problem?

I see it as a matter of triage. Immigration is a problem, but when your house is on fire, don't worry about replacing the broken window from fear that pests will take up residence in your burning house. 

One of the hardest things to argue is which problem demands the most attention, because on the whole, humans are not able to comprehend and assess reality in the abstract.

ChatGPT to help me articulate:

"Triage and Human Limitations in Problem-Solving
When faced with multiple problems, prioritization becomes a matter of triage: determining which issues demand immediate attention versus those that can be deferred. Using the metaphor of a burning house, one wouldn’t focus on repairing a broken window when flames threaten to consume everything. This analogy underscores the need to address existential threats before tackling secondary concerns.

However, deciding which problem is most urgent is inherently challenging. Humans often rely on immediate, tangible experiences and struggle to perceive abstract, long-term, or systemic challenges. Our cognitive limitations make it difficult to fully comprehend interconnected systems or unseen dynamics. This creates friction when different individuals or groups, influenced by their own experiences and values, try to agree on what deserves priority.

Ultimately, prioritizing problems requires a balance of urgency, importance, and potential impact—a process made more difficult by the human tendency to focus on the visible and immediate over the abstract and unseen."

Edited yesterday at 04:43 PM by Joshe

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

But isn't illegal immigration a problem?

Yes it is.

But:

1) Trump is incapable and uninterested in solving any real problem of governance.

2) There was a bipartisan bill to reform immigration which was blocked by Trump so he could get personal power.

3) The right-wing position on immigration is not based on legitmate concerns but xenophobia, racism, and nationalism. There is no acknowledgement that the US exploits immigrants for wage slavery and no interest in correcting that.

4) The US has no real problem accepting immigrants other than a xenophobic dislike of them.

Edited yesterday at 05:38 PM by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

2) There was a bipartisan bill to reform immigration which was blocked by Trump so he could get personal power.

I think the reason Trump blocked the bill was because it gave amnesty to a lot of people and did not adequately fund the wall.

Quote

4) The US has no real problem accepting immigrants other than a xenophobic dislike of them.

But what about the cost of housing migrants and crime, as I highlighted above? The overrunning of public schools, etc..

 

People like AOC literally wants to abolish ICE and end all immigration enforcements.

From Wikipedia

DSA calls for the abolition of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), an end to all immigrant detention and deportations, and a "demilitarization" of the Mexico–United States border.

https://www.dsausa.org/working-groups/immigrants-rights-working-group/

Edited 20 hours ago by Husseinisdoingfine