2024 Election Discussion General

[hundreth]

46 minutes ago, ryandesreu said:

You watch some Joe Rogan and after a couple of days you have the entire US political scene figured out? You're kidding.

Now, the world's economy has been recovering from the pandemic-induced inflation, with inflation rates easing in recent months. However, many Americans haven’t felt the benefits of this recovery, and conservative media continues to push the narrative that the economy is struggling under Biden. While some areas are improving, the recovery has been uneven.

When Trump returns to office, he will roll back safety and environmental regulations, tap into oil reserves, and cut taxes disproportionately for the rich again, increasing the national debt and screwing over future generations. Basically just taking out a loan on the US to make himself look successful. Myopic, unsustainable policies.

He will then claim all credit for economic improvements, even though the healthy growth was already in motion under Biden. Conservative media will then shift its narrative, giving the economic success to Trump. That is if his tariffs don't push the economy into a recession first.

 

 

So perfectly said.

[What Am I]

12 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

The Democrat party is doing some much needed soul searching.  Their candidate and her message clearly failed with the majority of the country.

“Or perhaps Democrats’ failure to connect with the concerns of working-class voters cost them the White House, as progressives such as Senator Bernie Sanders argued.

‘It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic party which has abandoned working-class people would find that the working class has abandoned them,” Sanders said in his post-election statement. “In the coming weeks and months those of us concerned about grassroots democracy and economic justice need to have some very serious political discussions.’ “

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/10/democrats-election-loss

Some are, but I'm seeing some hardcore doubling down from a portion of them. It seems like it's half and half, but I have no real way of quantifying it beyond a gut feeling based on opinions I'm seeing on the internet.

From those who are introspecting their own past actions, I predict some may begin a process of moving to the right, similar to Ana Kasparian. I've got my eye on Bill Maher. And of course, those are just celebrities. I'm guessing something similar is also happening among voters.

For those who double down, it's scary to think about how intense their aggression may grow. Let's hope shit doesn't get too wild.

Edited November 10 by What Am I

[Davino]

I hope Trump is the end of stage orange, after which the limitations of hypercapitalism and techno utopias become obvious. Maybe in this sense Trump will serve as an example that this is not the way: as it leads to inefficient country policies, rigged state structures and long term destructive strategic goals.

[Davino]

Quote

 

No words...

They behave like professional criminals, it's a mafia, expert bullshitters with millions of dollars backing them up

Overall democrats are too naive, they've just been eaten by a crocodile

Edited November 10 by Davino

[Nemra]

15 hours ago, Davino said:

They behave like professional criminals, it's a mafia, expert bullshitters with millions of dollars backing them up

An article from Mother Jones: Donald Trump, Mob Boss—Then and Now

Edited November 11 by Nemra

[Hatfort]

Trump is not going to drain the swamp, the CIA, he didn't do it in his first term, and he is not going to do it now. He loves the swamp and it is going to continue doing all the shady and awful stuff it did in his first term, in continuity with all other terms since maybe Kennedy, including Biden so badly, and would have included Kamala too.

His support to Netanyahu is granted, but Netanyahu is Israel's worst enemy already, so that may not be in this ethnostate's interest, but it's hard to know what will happen. What we know is that the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza continues, which Trump supports even more vocally than the Democrats, and in every way he can. But that's not Israel's only front, which it's not winning, Hamas is still fighting and it's not out of recruits. There's Lebanon, there's Yemen, there's big Iran, and others. A bigger war is possible.

Instead of focusing on improving the life conditions of his people, Trump keeps showing a big animosity towards China as his economic policy. That's not a war any side could win either, I mean militarily, if there's where he goes. At this point, economically, I think China has the upper hand too. Trump is so stupid, and so are his voters. Yeah, I'm not a politician, I can say it. The Democratic party sucks too, but was doing a bit better internally.

[ryandesreu]

19 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Want to share a spiritual video about election results. After all, this suppose to be a high conscious forum.

 

Maybe more lessons will be learned now with a Trump victory - I agree.

 

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, What Am I said:

For those who double down, it's scary to think about how intense their aggression may grow. Let's hope shit doesn't get too wild.

Double down on what exactly? Are we talking about about the citizenry or politicians? 

It seems like you keep saying they're doubling down in their worldview, as if they should abandon it? Or are you saying they're doubling down in their resistance and strategically, they'd be better off adopting a stance of acceptance of what they perceive to be evil? 

Edited November 10 by Joshe

[The Chosen One]

 

[What Am I]

39 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Double down on what exactly? Are we talking about about the citizenry or politicians? 

It seems like you keep saying they're doubling down in their worldview, as if they should abandon it? Or are you saying they're doubling down in their resistance and strategically, they'd be better off adopting a stance of acceptance of what they perceive to be evil? 

I guess I'm speaking mostly about those who are visible in media, mainstream or otherwise. I suppose I don't have a direct line to the citizenry, except maybe in forums and that kind of thing.

It's possible my language is harsh and obtuse. You're correct that it'd probably be silly for everyone on the left to suddenly abandon everything that they previously thought. I'm convinced I'm seeing some kind of phenomenon involving different methods for post-election analysis, but I may not be great at describing it without sounding like a jerkoff, lol.

I do feel that self-reflection on the left would be ideal, with an eye towards where they themselves may have made mistakes that allowed miscommunication and conflict. I've seen some who outright reject the possibility of their own culpability, and I guess it rubs me the wrong way, because it just pushes the poles further apart. Now, of course, I think the right should perform a similar introspection, considering there's nearly an equal portion who voted against them.

Edited November 10 by What Am I

[zazen]

5 hours ago, zurew said:

2 things wrong:

1 of those tweets say "this smell like  fraud and or corruption" - any evidence for any of that? Because if you don't, then this would be categorized as a shitpost. "there is an information that I cant explain, therefore im going to assume something negative there and im gonna pretend that I want to do an honest inquiry and that im just asking questions".

The second issue is with the FDA comments, the obvious implication there is corruption ,where those pharmacutical products are either dangerous or dont work - any evidence for any of that? If not, then again it is just another shitpost hiding behind "just asking questions".

 

This is a forum where we can discuss things in real time, not a court hearing where we’re expected to bring air tight court room grade evidence - as if we have no right to ask questions or point out something that doesn’t sit right. Even if it was a court room - who elected you judge lol. Chill.

Regarding FDA, I’m pointing out a conflict of interest to the tune of 90%, that the next administration seems to be aware of and looking to change, hopefully for the better. There’s thousands of drug recalls for products that were supposedly safe, and countless lawsuits revealing that side effects were downplayed or that clinical trials conveniently left out critical data.

Additionally, there’s so much we can do to prevent the need for drugs which can come with many side effects. Nothing shit about that except shitsmearing open discourse and suspicion.

I shared more in depth posts I’ve made regarding the macro phenomenon of this election - you can engage with that if you want as it’s more interesting than the details - but you haven’t.

This is what a shit post is btw:

Edited November 10 by zazen

[zazen]

7 hours ago, hundreth said:

I have to say I'm very confused by your perspectives. Having read your posts in the Israel discussions, I can't understand how you would be making pro Trump arguments here.

Is it not obvious he is a conman? Is this some kind of psychological cope mechanism you're going through? What's up dude? Lol

I wrote more in depth before which I’ll share separately but heres just for you bro. It’s a tough one as I’m not for Trump - I’m politically and ideologically homeless. But if I had to pick I’d bet on Trumps team - not Trump.

It doesn’t mean I agree with everything about the guy - far from it. The same mainstream machine that lies about Israel lies about Trump - I’m not saying he’ll be good for Palestine but the current administration is not engaged enough at all to conclude it, but rather overlook and excuse it. Perhaps Trump is more decisive and can make a deal as he did with the Abraham accords, this time involving Palestinian aspirations as the key Arab players involved have said thats a prerequisite. Maybe that’s better than a prolonged situations of a shit show we have now - Kamala can’t even podcast for 3 hours and we expect her to broker peace amongst wolves?

Sometimes real positive change comes wrapped in a package that the mainstream gatekeepers have trained us to reject. Sometimes the "wrong" people end up doing the right things, even if for their own reasons. The establishments propagandists want us so afraid of being associated with the "bad tribe" that we reject any challenge to their power, no matter how legitimate. The real question isn't whether there will be self-serving elements in any new power structure - there always are. The question is whether the public gets served to a good enough extent in conjunction with the elites, compared to the current status quo where they feel they don’t.

A lot of people this time aren’t necessarily voting for Trump (except for die hard fans) as much as they are voting for his team and / or against the Democrats and what they have become / stand for. Just because someone votes one way or another, doesn’t mean they stand for everything the party does or with everyone in it. It’s an overall assessment on which side you align most with, aligning on wanting some of the same things but not all of the same things - which explains why supposedly different people come together in that party.

Trumps first term appeal was because he was blunt, called out the disaster of wars and to end them (which he didn’t really), spoke to and for the nation rather than a transnational elite that have interests beyond their own nation. He’s a smooth talker who’s a master of self-promotion, posing as an outsider when he’s an insider - but just because you’re inside the club, doesn’t mean you obey the rules. He uses the establishments tools but rejects its rule in terms of how to speak or act. The establishment will say they’re defending their allies and interests in Syria, he’ll just bluntly say we’re taking the oil.

He isn’t easily controllable, nor is he wise - but he has street smarts to deal with nonsense. If he has a council of wiser people around him to direct and rein him in, he’s the perfect vessel to spearhead change. He’s good at leadership, but not a good leader. Read that again, it’s key. This is why this time around with who he has around, ex-Dems and independents who are politically homeless are re-aligning and aligning with what they see as a chance on change, though not a guarantee.

In general, the Dems are the institutional elite whilst the Republicans are made up of individual elites. Different factions of the elite, what Chris Hedges calls the civil war of the elites. Now if the status quo isn’t working, and hasn’t been for long enough causing populism to rise across much of the world - is change more likely to come through institutions and a establishment representing a neoliberal world order - held back by inertia, weighed down by a sprawling bureaucracy and maintained through ideological capture. Or individuals who have the will, charisma and now the perceived competence to make changes. It’s the machine vs the mavericks and misfits.

A lot of Trumpers have excessively high expectations for what will happen, they may be disappointed but we’ll see. There are much larger cycles of economics and geopolitics that no candidate or party can undo - we move through cycles like waves - but that doesn’t mean we can’t tweak how that wave is surfed upon for the better or the worse.

Edited November 10 by zazen

[Husseinisdoingfine]

8 hours ago, Nemra said:

It's no wonder that Leo is offline.

Yeah, that's strange.

Usually he's much more active.

My theory is he's having some sort of breakdown due to the election. Similar to how Stalin had a mental breakdown and locked himself in his office, not answering any phone calls when Hitler invaded.

I'm of course joking. My actual theory is Leo is having another spiritual awakening.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

SDi ORANGE is celebrating.

 

[zazen]

11 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

As I said previously in this topic, you as well as others are falling in the trick of mainstream media which are selling you a single pointed view which always benefits democrats and shits on republicans, cherrypicking facts and news.

In summary, and I said this 3-4 years ago, the system had made you a trick on your minds. Basically what you think is progressive, modern and conscious is actually the most closedmindness, fanatical and extremist (woke culture, etc...) and what your system calls as right wing or conservative is what is actually now the modern and conscious perspective.

Yes, I am saying to vote Trump you have to be more conscious that you have to be vote Kamala. You lack the consciousness to get this now but you will get it in the future. 

We have been too lost in polarized politics to notice a inversion has taken place in terms of where the bad actors and imperial core is being run from, behind and beside - and that’s the Democratic Party for the most part. Some have and have realigned themselves. There is such a difference in narratives of what just happened and how it’s being perceived - some view it as a coming golden age, a win against the dark forces of a deep state establishment. Others view it as a dark age that Hitler is ushering in. Neither are correct, but the right may be more correct.

Liberals are generally blind to their own actions of censorship, silencing of dissent and clamping down on their political opposition through lawfare and a rhetoric that caused two assassination attempts. They can’t notice the projection and hypocrisy because of their feel good rhetoric. Because they dress their actions in the language of inclusion and progress, they're immune to becoming the thing they claim to fight. We've seen this before: 20th century regimes draped in red flags also promised liberation and equality, but delivered the opposite. That was the conclusion, to insisting on inclusion for the greater good.

The lefts failure is due to the same false utopian premises they base their movement on much like how communism fails in the real world when reality grinds its operational gears, and human behaviour ie incentives prevent the outcomes their good intentions hope to achieve. When we put equality over and above quality, and sacrifice merit on the altar of equity - where do we expect people with talent or value are going to go? Where it’s valued.

Every time we try to enforce equality through top down control, we create a new hierarchy - a bureaucratic aristocracy who try to equalise human nature - as if flattening mountain peaks is even possible.The competent people, the innovators and the mavericks won’t sit around waiting to be sacrificed on the altar of equity. They’ll leave for places merit still matters. It's just basic human nature, like water finding its way around a dam.

The irony is: The more force we use trying to make everyone equal, the more inequality we create between places that embrace this ideology and places that don't. Just like the brain drain phenomena of geopolitics, except on a internal political scale.

Edited November 10 by zazen

[zurew]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

This is a forum where we can discuss things in real time, not a court hearing where we’re expected to bring air tight court room grade evidence - as if we have no right to ask questions or point out something that doesn’t sit right. Even if it was a court room - who elected you judge lol. Chill.

Don't pretend that you need to create a courtcase. What I said was, I would expect more from people here than simple shit-sirring. A literal kid can do that , anyone can generate suspicion, its much harder to actually present a case where there is something tangible there and then after that its even harder to present a solution.

I could generate a 100 negatively loaded hypothesis about things that Im biased against, but that wouldn't do any good, that would just pollute the quality of the conversations here and that would pollute the info-ecosystem.

I think you are being incredibly dishonest, you think those tweets have merits behind them, thats why you selectively choose those morally loaded tweets - this is obvious. If I would bring up tweets that the 2024 election was stolen by Trump, that would also be shit-sirring, but after bringing up those tweets I would pretend that "I just want to discuss things" - that would be incredibly dishonest behaviour from me and that would also be considered a shitpost.

And To be clear, you are not just bringing up news to discuss, you are bringing heavily loaded tweets and accusations - those things are not the same.

1 hour ago, zazen said:

There’s thousands of drug recalls for products that were supposedly safe, and countless lawsuits revealing that side effects were downplayed or that clinical trials conveniently left out critical data.

Lets see some specific cases of that.

I hope you won't rely on RFK jr-s claims, becuase his claims (the ones that I  checked) , they were completely unfounded and RFK jr was unable to properly compherend the paper he was reading. That dude is the last person I would rely on when it comes to health claims.

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Regarding FDA, I’m pointing out a conflict of interest to the tune of 90%, that the next administration seems to be aware of and looking to change, hopefully for the better.

I wont even grant this, so I want you to bring evidence for that claim, but even after you bringing evidence lets make it clear , that from conflict of interest doesn't follow that there will necessary  be corruption and then even after you can make a case for corruption - from corruption doesn't follow that everything goes. 

There is a underlying implication there about there being 0 checks and balances - which if you want to claim, I would expect you to make a case for it.

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Additionally, there’s so much we can do to prevent the need for drugs which can come with many side effects. Nothing shit about that except shitsmearing open discourse and suspicion.

I dont know who you are talking to, because no one argues otherwise. This is a stupid talking point from mostly the right, where they pretend people don't already know about exercise and diets. Everyone knows about those things, but most people dont care and dont bother.

But you know - those two things are also not mutually exclusive - you can work on your health by eating good and training regularly and you can also take  the vaccine and or certain pharmacutical products, when it is beneficial to do so.

Edited November 10 by zurew

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, What Am I said:

I do feel that self-reflection on the left would be ideal, with an eye towards where they themselves may have made mistakes that allowed miscommunication and conflict. I've seen some who outright reject the possibility of their own culpability, and I guess it rubs me the wrong way, because it just pushes the poles further apart. Now, of course, I think the right should perform a similar introspection, considering there's nearly an equal portion who voted against them.

I mean, self-reflection is always good, but I saw where you were talking about how you liked Pisco's stance of basically only focusing on how the blue team failed, and you made it sound as if their worldview itself failed and they should reflect on that and adjust their worldview and move closer to the worldview held by the majority of Americans. That's what it sounded like to me. 

I think I keep reading from you that since the majority of Americans voted Trump, that that means their worldview is the accurate one and the others should get with the program and join, which is just absurd, to be frank. 

If the left were throwing this hissy fit because they lost against someone like Nikki Haley, I'd agree with you that they should calm down. But to them, Trump is literally an existential threat to the world. The position of "let's reflect on what we did wrong" only makes sense if you're a political strategist or something. Why would the citizens themselves need to reflect? No amount of reflection will neutralize their concerns or improve their lives politically. Why is this all of sudden a good time for them to put a check on their actions that contribute to polarization? If someone should reflect, it's the people who thought it best to let Trump run the US, you know, the guy who created all the polarization in the first place. 

[What Am I]

11 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I mean, self-reflection is always good, but I saw where you were talking about how you liked Pisco's stance of basically only focusing on how the blue team failed, and you made it sound as if their worldview itself failed and they should reflect on that and adjust their worldview and move closer to the worldview held by the majority of Americans. That's what it sounded like to me. 

I think I keep reading from you that since the majority of Americans voted Trump, that that means their worldview is the accurate one and the others should get with the program and join, which is just absurd, to be frank.

I don't think the left's wordview failed necessarily, because between the two, it's clearly closer to the correct way of thinking for an enlightened society. You could probably say it's too advanced for the current time, which ironically might be why it's degrading and becoming dysfunctional. Shoot, I guess in that sense, you guys may be right in blaming the populace. But still, people should probably be met where they are instead of where we'd like them to be. When progress moves too quickly, things can get weird. A tempered approach wouldn't be the worst idea.

I wouldn't go so far as to imply the right's worldview is accurate, but it's possible there's bits and pieces that can be extracted which may currently be a blind spot to the left. I think important lessons can be found in unexpected places.

11 minutes ago, Joshe said:

If the left were throwing this hissy fit because they lost against someone like Nikki Haley, I'd agree with you that they should calm down. But to them, Trump is literally an existential threat to the world. The position of "let's reflect on what we did wrong" only makes sense if you're a political strategist or something. Why would the citizens themselves need to reflect? No amount of reflection will neutralize their concerns or improve their lives politically. Why is this all of sudden a good time for them to put a check on their actions that contribute to polarization? If someone should reflect, it's the people who thought it best to let Trump run the US, you know, the guy who created all the polarization in the first place.

I guess it really does come down to this. With a different candidate, there would maybe be a different reaction, but Trump being involved makes it seem unnecessary and perhaps even dangerous to vary up the lens of analysis. And who knows, maybe you guys are correct in not letting down your guard. I can't pretend to know what's going to happen now, except to say it'll be a wild ride.

[ryandesreu]

2 hours ago, The Chosen One said:

 

This will flood the zone with an onslaught of bullshit to the point where even more people will have no clue what is real.

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, What Am I said:

But still, people should probably be met where they are instead of where we'd like them to be. When progress moves too quickly, things can get weird. A tempered approach wouldn't be the worst idea.

What would it look like to meet them where they are? 

Also, were things really moving too quickly? The right-wing propaganda machine makes people think kids are getting sex changes in the basement of schools, but that's not happening, even if daddy Trump says so. It's just not true. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of verifiable falsehoods that come out of the right, just this election cycle and they all go on believing it even when the record is set straight. Joe Rogan said there was a school who put a kitty litter box out for a girl who identified as a cat to take a shit in but the school said that most certainly did not happen. I just saw a popular spiritual guru who fell victim to the propaganda, telling a huge audience that liberals in California and Michigan made it so you can't arrest people for shoplifting anything under $1,000.  Do you know how many people believe all this false shit that is intentionally designed to mislead them into hating the left so they'll vote right? 

How in the fuck can that be met where it is? 

 

Edited November 11 by Joshe