2024 Election Discussion General

[Sincerity]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

And now for that you want to censor me... Not cool bro... Very kamala style behavior I'd say. 

Okay, enough from you here.

[Ulax]

I’ll be real, too much green on this thread. Not enough yellow.

People act as they act. Would you be angry at a rock for rolling down the hill? 

Edited November 7 by Ulax

[Spiritual Warfare]

2 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Would you be angry at a rock for rolling down the hill? 

People might be like rocks rolling downhill, but at least rocks don’t post about it on social media afterward. 

[Ulax]

4 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

People might be like rocks rolling downhill, but at least rocks don’t post about it on social media afterward. 

Well I guess it it’s be better to say is it right to say they could have chosen differently.

Emotional responses are inevitable

[Sincerity]

This isn't about not being a "Kamala supporter". To hell with Kamala.

This is about being brashly uneducated and polluting the thread with the uneducated opinions or trumpism. This isn't Twitter, Reddit or YT comments. We have some quality standards here, for the good of those doing this work and wanting to have quality conversations. There will not be any intelligent conversations when people fooled by Trump (after listening to just one speech of his or Joe Rogan interview and nothing else) come here and say yeah, that guy is legit! Very conscious God damn politics...

There ARE shit (shallow) opinions and better (deeper) opinions, measured by 1) how educated they are about the topics and 2) the consciousness and understanding of reality and the workings of the mind by the vessel.

Edited November 7 by Sincerity

[zurew]

4 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Well I guess it it’s be better to say is it right to say they could have chosen differently.

Emotional responses are inevitable

The free-will determinism debate makes 0 difference practically and it itsn't appropriate for this thread.

if I have 0 free will then I cannot not want to change things and I cannot not act the way I act and think -  if I do have free will, then I can change things , but either case I will experience it as if I would have the ability change things.

[Spiritual Warfare]

3 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Emotional responses are inevitable

I think a psychopath might want a word with you.

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Alex4 said:

Green stage is the beautiful stage. It’s the stage that reconnects you with nature, your community, and, paradoxically, even with your country. Once you step into green, you begin to see just how full of shit blue and orange are.

I’m considering starting a thread to explain how to embrace the green stage. Many of you fall into the trap of thinking you can somehow reach yellow by skipping green.

That's the problem, those stages aren't full of shit.  I think the framework of spiral dynamics is limited and actually skews our perception of reality because we tend to approach it as higher / lower and conflate that with better / worse or more / less developed. It's spiral dynamics apartheid and tribalism with fancy clothes. It can become consciousness porn.

Maybe it's not about a simplistic ladder like view of development, and we should instead see the different values and worldviews as interdependent and mutually reinforcing. In fact its better to view it like a pyramid where stage red is the base. We need the warrior of stage red to protect us, the order of blue to stabilise us, the innovation of orange to excel us, the humanity of green to be fair, and the systems of yellow to tie all them together in balance. Like Leo said earlier - this should open our eyes to survival, survival, survival. Exactly! Stage green sucks at survival to the point we can't have a society orient around those values as they neither produce wealth nor safety which is why people are leaving Cali.

Also, it’s not like these values in a “higher stage” weren’t available to humanity before or aren’t even being lived out by people right now across the political aisle or border. Indigenous people were living out green values in harmony with the earth before we had pronouns or became vegan. The conservative old church lady probably bakes cookies for her neighbours in rural America whilst a liberal Karen who has “Kindness is everything” as her bio shouts at the barista for getting her coffee order wrong.

"Stages" of development aren't a staircase for consciousness climbers, they're more like a pyramid. The base of that pyramid are the values and ''stages'' we're all too busy looking down on from our stage green pulpit. Real progress doesn't come from decorating the tippy top - it comes from shoring up the base. Building on the values that actually keep the lights on and the wolves at bay. Green should be incorporated into and complementing those core functions, not attempting to subsume them entirely.

Edited November 7 by zazen

[zurew]

https://x.com/martyrmade/status/1854177798531031183

This is why I say some of these people cant be reasoned with.

Their guy wins and they still live in the delusional world where 2020 was stolen even though after all the investigation and evidence says otherwise.

You couldn't get more blackpilled than this. Absolute delusion and complete detachment from reality .

The idea that these people would have been persuaded just by democracts changing a few things is delusional.

 

Edited November 7 by zurew

[lostingenosmaze]

2 hours ago, Alex4 said:

Many of you fall into the trap of thinking you can somehow reach yellow by skipping green.

Much like how people can fall into the trap of thinking you can be healthily green with a stage orange/blue shadow.

[Javfly33]

10 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

This isn't about not being a "Kamala supporter". To hell with Kamala.

This is about being brashly uneducated and polluting the thread with the uneducated opinions or trumpism. This isn't Twitter, Reddit or YT comments. We have some quality standards here, for the good of those doing this work and wanting to have quality conversations. 

You basically are saying this about polluting the thread with opinions contrary to my ideology. 

This isn´t Twitter, Reddit or YT comments, we only allow our ideology here!

 

Nice... The progressives turned radicals. And they don´t even know it...

[Sincerity]

@Javfly33

Quote

@Salvijus I agree with you too.

It seems It has become popular to hate on Trump just because.

Perception wise I get a more sinister and false vibe from this Kamala women than from Trump.

Hello another US politics uneducated forum user polluting the thread.

You should be better than that and you should know it's not about ideology. 

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Nice... The progressives turned radicals. And they don´t even know it...

FYI, I'm not a progressive.  

[lostingenosmaze]

16 minutes ago, zurew said:

https://x.com/martyrmade/status/1854177798531031183

This is why I say some of these people cant be reasoned with.

Their guy wins and they still live in the delusional world where 2020 was stolen even though after all the investigation and evidence says otherwise.

You couldn't get more blackpilled than this. Absolute delusion and complete detachment from reality.

The idea that these people would have been persuaded just by democracts changing a few things is delusional.

That's so defeatist. As if it's like getting a donkey to step over a paper-wide gap, but it's too stubborn and ignorant to cross it, and if you try to stoop down to their level, they'll just go throw you down that short gap with them out of spite.

If that's the level of politics we're at now, then what's the point!? Is us maturing as a collective just a matter of waiting for MAGA to die (of natural causes) just as much as we need the stubborn scientists to die (of natural causes) for science to turn to Truth!?

Edited November 7 by lostingenosmaze

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Sincerity said:

Farewell. Agree with you 100%.

Though I still deeply recommend you to stay, we need to have the aware/educated here for contrast, otherwise this will just be a cesspool of fools. Your contributions on the forum have been invaluable.

When the world is turning into the devil, angels must arise for contrast.

I might post occasionally on the other sections of the Forum (in Intellectual Stuff), but I'll be stepping away from the Politics & Society section. It's been sad to see broader problems within our society impact this Forum in a negative way. Best of luck to you, the other mods, and folks I've interacted with here over the years. These discussions continue to be important, but I'm not finding what I need here any more.

Edited November 7 by DocWatts

[zurew]

5 minutes ago, lostingenosmaze said:

That's so defeatist. As if it's like getting a donkey to step over a paper-wide gap, but it's too stubborn and ignorant to cross it, and if you try to stoop down to their level, they'll just go throw you down that short gap with them out of spite.

If that's the level of politics we're at now, then what's the point!? Is us maturing as a collective just a matter of waiting for MAGA to die (of natural causes) just as much as we need the stubborn scientists to die (of natural causes) for science to turn to Truth!?

and 76k likes on it.

The way I cope with this  - is that I tell myself "surely a lot of those likes can be explained by bots and surely we have a sample of insane people on twitter and twitter isn't representative of normies".

But when an actual election comes  and this many people vote for Trump,  I suddenly realize that , that cope doesn't work.

Edited November 7 by zurew

[Spiritual Warfare]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When good guys are bad, and bad guys are good, you know your worldview has failed.

How can anyone get everyone to agree on moral issues? You, of all people, know that it’s impossible, and anyone can make this comment, and it won’t say much about the person because nothing is objective in this world. We are different, and there is something beautiful in that. Drama is needed, and unity is a fantasy that will never come true.

[Ulax]

40 minutes ago, zurew said:

The free-will determinism debate makes 0 difference practically and it itsn't appropriate for this thread.

if I have 0 free will then I cannot not want to change things and I cannot not act the way I act and think -  if I do have free will, then I can change things , but either case I will experience it as if I would have the ability change things.

Makes 0 difference practically? 
 

Come on man. There are infinite practical differences made by it. Think of any circumstance where you wish to guide an individual or groups behaviour. Or any situation you want to understand. 
Your degree of belief in free will v determinism will make an incredible difference. 

Edited November 7 by Ulax

[Ulax]

41 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

I think a psychopath might want a word with you.

Psychopaths still feel emotions lol. Just not some emotional states 

[Consept]

23 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

You basically are saying this about polluting the thread with opinions contrary to my ideology. 

This isn´t Twitter, Reddit or YT comments, we only allow our ideology here!

 

Nice... The progressives turned radicals. And they don´t even know it...

To have a discussion on either side there has to be an effort to agree on a shared reality and so good faith is needed. Now there's definitely bad faith on the left but I don't think it's anywhere near what it is on the right or more specifically maga. Reason being they have to operate in delusion because Trump doesn't make sense outside of the delusion he created. 

For example if you asked anyone before Trump ran the first election, 'should a convicted criminal be able to run and be a good choice for president?' I guarantee no one would say yes. They espeicially wouldn't say yes they were republican and it was about a dem. If you also asked would someone with several traits of a facist leader be a good president again they would say no. 

So these are concrete things that they would outright reject in a leader. However when it comes to discussions here and elsewhere, they revolve around excuse making on one side and then trying to prove he is actually these things on the other. They might say 'well he was unfairly targeted and prosecuted' or 'he's not a facist in the strictest definition'. All of this is pointless if you can't recognise the delusion in the first place. What could be interesting conversations are 'could facism be a good thing if done in a certain way?' or 'what appeals about facist leaning leaders to the everyday voter?

The truth of the matter Trump appeals to people and surprisingly people on this forum, that doesn't make those people bad but it's curious why they think someone like him is a good solution. Is it that he has convinced them or as they might like to believe, they're playing some kind of 4d chess game that led them to decide he was a good choice? 

[Spiritual Warfare]

6 minutes ago, Ulax said:

Psychopaths still feel emotions lol. Just not some emotional states 

It is very limited, not worth considering as a true emotion.