2024 Election Discussion General

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

America chose, and it chose to reject democracy in favor of a vengeful dictator. This is reflective of a broader shift in American culture towards conspiracism and hate.

It's been extremely disappointing that this shift has been reflected in what's supposed to be a Conscious Politics forum as well - as evidenced by the number of people here who are eager to downplay and excuse Trump's monstrous behavior.

This will be my last post in this section of the Forums. The quality of the discourse here has started to be more reflective of a YouTube comments page rather than people who are serious about discussing politics in a mature way.

Absolutely disgusted with my country, and the number of people here, on this Forum, who have been enabled America's shift towards fascism.

How anyone here can have watched Leo's content on epistemology and conscious politics, and come away thinking 'yup, Trump's out guy's is mind boggling.

Are you trying to make people who have a different opinion than you somehow guilty? Lol. Don't be ridiculous. Nobody cares about your tantrums. 

Most you could achieve like that is gather like minded people and whine together in your little private corner while giving each other validation of how right you are and how wrong others are. (because fragile egos need lots of validation you know) 

Edited 6 hours ago by Salvijus

[BlackPhil]

49 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

America chose, and it chose to reject democracy in favor of a vengeful dictator. This is reflective of a broader shift in American culture towards conspiracism and hate.

It's been extremely disappointing that this shift has been reflected in what's supposed to be a Conscious Politics forum as well - as evidenced by the number of people here who are eager to downplay and excuse Trump's monstrous behavior.

This will be my last post in this section of the Forums. The quality of the discourse here has started to be more reflective of a YouTube comments page rather than a forum for people who are serious about discussing politics in a mature way.

Absolutely disgusted with my country, and the number of people here, on this Forum, who have been enabled America's shift towards fascism.

How anyone here can have watched Leo's content on epistemology and conscious politics, and come away thinking 'yup, Trump is our guy!' is mind boggling.

49 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

 

I think you need to learn the difference between democracy and liberalism. What just happened was literally democracy in action: people voted and got what the majority wanted. Did Trump become a fascist dictator last time he was president? No. Will he now? No, I doubt it.

The rest of your post shines the light on a big problem. You dont want to talk to people with different opinions than your own. That creates echo-chambers and disconnects you from reality. That's what happened this election and that's why so many on the left are surprised by the results.

If you want to actually change politics and peoples minds you need to instead focus on discussing with people of a different opinion, reaching the other side. Not just call them fascist and block them out. People doing just that is one of the bigger reasons Trump won.

That elitist (and actually fascist) behaviour of thinking you are of a "higher consciousness" and people of "lower stages" are not even worth talking to is simply pride in it's purest form. And pride comes before fall.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by BlackPhil

[TheAlchemist]

I think there's a realistic possibility for a scenario unfolding where Trump's regime starts using the threat of withdrawing from NATO to pressure European countries to dance to his tunes.

During Trump's last term we got a small taste of this when he successfully pressured European NATO allies to increase their defense budgets with these threats. It would be naive to think he wouldn't push those demands further this time around as he is more organized and clearly willing to use threats and blackmail towards allies.

Just like he demands total alligiance and praise from the people in his cabinet, so will he demand it from allies. And many will bend to his will, we can already see many progressive leaders in Europe stroking his ego and being careful about criticising Trump in any way in public statements. Pretty crazy to witness

We in Europe need to get our shit together. This might sound crazy to some but basically we need a European military and a European Federation. The geopolitical environment has shifted significantly now from the post WW2 order. 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by TheAlchemist

[zurew]

@Salvijus naahh, its more like participating in a cooking competition where you are surrounded with people who all have a preference for eating shit and you  being pressed that you need to give an apology for providing an overcooked steak and then you need to pretend that the steak being overcooked was the main reason you not wining the competition. People then tell you "if only you would have made that steak better you would have won , you need to get better at cooking, buddy" while ignoring the fact that the same people have a preference for eating shit and no matter how good the steak would have been, you would have still lost.

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Such politicians basically don't exist.

You can only pick from actual candidates.

Gavin Newsom is like the strongest candidate Dems got right now. And still progressives hate on him.

Leo, how certain are you that he could become our next president in 2028 or 2032?

Edited 5 hours ago by Hardkill

[Schizophonia]

7 minutes ago, zurew said:

@Salvijus naahh, its more like participating in a cooking competition where you are surrounded with people who all have a preference for eating shit and you  being pressed that you need to give an apology for providing an overcooked steak and then you need to pretend that the steak being overcooked was the main reason you not wining the competition. People then tell you "if only you would have made that steak better you would have won , you need to get better at cooking, buddy" while ignoring the fact that the same people have a preference for eating shit and no matter how good the steak would have been, you would have still lost.

People don't prefer eating shit, it's just your ego.

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

I think there's a realistic possibility for a scenario unfolding where Trump's regime starts using the threat of withdrawing from NATO to pressure European countries to dance to his tunes.

During Trump's last term we got a small taste of this when he successfully pressured European NATO allies to increase their defense budgets with these threats. It would be naive to think he wouldn't push those demands further this time around as he is more organized and clearly willing to use threats and blackmail towards allies.

Just like he demands total alligiance and praise from the people in his cabinet, so will he demand it from allies. And many will bend to his will, we can already see many progressive leaders in Europe stroking his ego and being careful about criticising Trump in any way in public statements. Pretty crazy to witness

We in Europe need to get our shit together. This might sound crazy to some but basically we need a European military and a European Federation. The geopolitical environment has shifted significantly now from the post WW2 order. 

 

Of course. Not just Europe, also Japan, South Korea etc. but the US might stsrt alienating "allies" more and more. It’s a thin line. Because the US still wants to keep their allies against China etc.

[zurew]

6 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

People don't prefer eating shit, it's just your ego.

Oh, yeah they do and they like to pretend that it is actually cake.

[TheAlchemist]

1 hour ago, DocWatts said:

America chose, and it chose to reject democracy in favor of a vengeful dictator. This is reflective of a broader shift in American culture towards conspiracism and hate.

It's been extremely disappointing that this shift has been reflected in what's supposed to be a Conscious Politics forum as well - as evidenced by the number of people here who are eager to downplay and excuse Trump's monstrous behavior.

This will be my last post in this section of the Forums. The quality of the discourse here has started to be more reflective of a YouTube comments page rather than a forum for people who are serious about discussing politics in a mature way.

Absolutely disgusted with my country, and the number of people here, on this Forum, who have been enabled America's shift towards fascism.

How anyone here can have watched Leo's content on epistemology and conscious politics, and come away thinking 'yup, Trump is our guy!' is mind boggling.

Apologies to folks like @Hardkill and @Husseinisdoingfine, along with the moderators and the handful of other people here who've avoided falling into this trap. I've enjoyed interacting with you over the years. Best of luck to you, hope the Forum here becomes more reflective of your thoughtfulness and integrity over time, once it becomes unavoidable that life is getting far worse for people as a result of the outcome of this election. Maybe I'll check back in a few years, but for now it's goodbye.

A sincere thank you for all your contributions over the years. You have obviously done a lot of serious reading and have provided consistently high quality and nuanced views on these topics. You inspired me to read more and to see the depth of these issues. This should be a moment of serious reflection for any of us here. 

Ps. Maybe you could have a "blog" in the journal section with some of your reflections on political topics? I would be very interested to read something like that, and I'm sure there are others too who see the value in your approach. But I also understand completely if that isn't of interest at this time. Good luck 🙏

 

Edited 5 hours ago by TheAlchemist

[Adrian colby]

17 hours ago, Da77en said:

I was shocked to see that Trump won. I feel this is a good time to remind ourselves that one aspect of spirituality is to bring yourself into a level of evolution where even if you are put into situations and circumstances of hell you are still in heaven because you have made a heaven within yourself. Whether or not the situations on Earth are worsened because of this election we can use this to grow even more rapidly because of the recognition that our well-being is capable of being developed in such a way that it won’t actually matter what happens in the “outside” reality and we will always utilize it to our highest advantage.

Also the people who voted Trump in did so because they simply aren’t conscious enough to actually know better so this is a good barometer to see how much work we need to do.

My sentiments also. The situation is not bad or good but will certainly rear the collective shadow. Watch people’s behaviour and see the work that needs to be done. It’s a good indication for spiritual people who think that there will be a sudden ‘awakening’ and realise the collective process is slow and often painful. Also that we watch our own reactions and behavior. To try and keep within love compassion and understanding. 

[zurew]

The "but thats elitist though"  or the "but thats just your ego" demonstrates one of the biggest trap you can be in, where you pretend that there is no such thing as being completely detached from reality.

If you cant entertain the possibility that you can actually be detached from reality, thats when you end up in this place epistemically where everything goes and there is no difference between anything

The 70 year old guy  who tells you , you are his biological father is as epistemically grounded as when your actual kid tells you the same. Then a random guy tells you thats its just your ego or you are being elitist for claiming that the old guy is actually delusional and for claming there is no way to reason with him.

And then also pretending that disagreeing with the 70 year old guy is just a casual disagreement and that there is no good reason to actually freak the fuck out since that 70 year old guy has actual influence over your and your family's life.

Edited 5 hours ago by zurew

[Nemra]

It's as if The Boys TV show knew what would happen in the U.S.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

@Salvijus naahh, its more like participating in a cooking competition where you are surrounded with people who all have a preference for eating shit and you  being pressed that you need to give an apology for providing an overcooked steak and then you need to pretend that the steak being overcooked was the main reason you not wining the competition. People then tell you "if only you would have made that steak better you would have won , you need to get better at cooking, buddy" while ignoring the fact that the same people have a preference for eating shit and no matter how good the steak would have been, you would have still lost.

Simply calling other opinions than your own "shit" provides no value to the conversation other self serving egoic attempt to appear as the winner by calling others losers. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Salvijus

[Davino]

@DocWatts I respect your decision but I'm quite sad about it. Your contributions were very very much appreciated. Your commentaries always thoughtful and calibrated, bringing insights into politics, sociology and philosophy. Thank you for the value you have provided to this section and hope to see you soon back.

 

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Simply calling other opinions than your own "shit" provides no value to the conversation other self serving egoic attempt to appear as the winner by calling others losers

It provides a perspective how blackpilled you can get and from where he is coming from.

And again this is just your inability to admit , there is such a thing as being too detached.

"Telling the 70 year old guy that he is delusional for having a 100% conviction that you are his biological father is egotistical and elitist"

Edited 5 hours ago by zurew

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

It provides a perspective how blackpilled you can get and from where he is coming from.

And again this is just your inability to admit , there is such a thing as being too detached.

What? That answer makes no sense. Are you talking about the other comment you made? I haven't read it yet 

[Sincerity]

@Salvijus Why are you still arguing here when you yourself mentioned you know close to nothing about the candidates and just went off of vibes? 

Quote

For me it's just her character. I sensed nothing but dishonesty, crookedness, zero integrity etc. Trump is a bit shady aswell but less so. That's just was my superficial impression of these two. The impression I arrived at using only my gut feeling and not looking at their history record or what people say about them etc. 

Quote

(Tim Walz) Never heard of him. That's how little I know about politics. I only started watching it in the last month or so because there's so much hype around it lol. But that was my first impression after watching what's happening for a month. 

You are just polluting this thread, knowing nothing but still replying and replying. Would be wise of you to stop.

[Davino]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Are you trying to make people who have a different opinion than you somehow guilty? Lol. Don't be ridiculous. Nobody cares about your tantrums. 

Most you could achieve like that is gather like minded people and whine together in your little private corner while giving each other validation of how right you are and how wrong others are. (because fragile egos need lots of validation you know) 

Of course, because mathematicians and physicists love discussing with conspiracy theorist again and again.

It's clear that if you know deeply something, you'll want to speak with individuals who are at the same level of understanding as you. Instead of debating with aggressively ignorant individuals, who think they know about politics but never read a book about such science.

There is a saying in my country: In football and politics everyone is an expert.

No

The truth is ignorance and self-deception is rampant and incapable of being recognised as such. Moreover, everyone believes they understand politics and their voice should be taken into account indefinitely, even while saying pure demagogy 

[Sincerity]

For the love of God @Leo Gura, please purge this subforum of the trumpism and brash uneducation... this is the literal opposite of conscious politics. This subforum is utterly going down the drain unless it's swiftly cleansed of this foolishness. The people have identified themselves.

[Davino]

12 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Simply calling other opinions than your own "shit" provides no value to the conversation other self serving egoic attempt to appear as the winner by calling others losers. 

What if you are actually saying shit?

Have you considered that possibility?

Then it is an accurate statement 

I always seriously consider I can be full of shit