2024 Election Discussion General

[bambi]

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Have you made any points? You are a 1 trick pony that answer every comment with the same thing. And then you expect people to have a serious discussion with you. I've already shared a video, which had the most important point I wanted to raise. You ignored it. How about you provide any worthwhile arguments and I will critique them for you?

What are you talking about? You hoenstly think posting long videos is some type of serious good faith discussion?

Lets try to see if we can get on a level, we dont have to agree, but surely you can engage in a dicussion, Ill start:

While JD Vance is clearly going to benfit commercially from being Trumps VP; he has vested interested in venture capailism, and has many pro-capialsit friends, its clear this will benefit him and those around him. However with that said, hes clearly intellignet and with the boundaries of his own self-itnerests (private markets, unregulated markets), to my view he wants to genuinely help america. To me hes credible and capable intellectually, he isn't like Hariss or Trump (both incompetent). I dont agree with all of Vances view or positions, but he often admits when he doesnt know something and doesnt overstep (Rogan podcasts). What exactly about him to you dislike or disagree with

[Lyubov]

6 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I thought California was riddled with crime because of how relaxed the punishments are for shoplifting?

Blue cities are filled with aggressive homeless begging for change, stealing, and threatening people. That's not to say that homeless and blue are always connected, if they were red ran they would just round them up and drive them out to the fields. Dems wear their issues like a scarlet letter while Repubs hand wave and offer fucked up solutions. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Lyubov

[BlackPhil]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not rejecting Trump's victory. He won democratically. But for democracy to be effective it requires the education of the public. The corruption of education and media leads to a corruption of democracy.

I'm not saying low developed people shouldn't have a vote.

In the end, America got the hyper-capitalist Orange fascist that represents American values and character. Hyper Orange.

As I've said before, Orange capitalism is eating itself alive. That's what we see here. The corruptions of hyper capitalism are becoming toxic and cancerous. Trump is the embodiment of that cancer. But that cancer infects of minds of most Americans. So in that sense democracy has worked. A cancerous people are reflected in a cancerous leader.

Well if that's the case the americans indeed got a president who represents them. That's kind of the definition of democracy, a government/president that represents the majority. That's not fascism or anti-democratic.

Trump is not more right wing than many other presidents just some decades ago, were they all fascist? 

Calling him a fascist/nazi is really an insult to the victims of real fascism.

[What Am I]

Just now, Consept said:

I think the dems messed up not backing Bernie in the last 2 elections, he would've been the perfect counter foil for Trump 

Whether it'd ultimately be good or bad, it seems like someone similar to Bernie is their only feasible option. The hunger for the anti-establishment viewpoint is growing, and not just in the US.

[bambi]

8 minutes ago, Consept said:

@bambi 

Is that chatgpt bias as well because it's pretty similar to what I said. He hasn't gelot full control like Hitler did in terms of Militarism but he has lots of aspects of fascism. Out of 10 points I said 7 out of 10 were trump and chatgpt gave 6 points 6/10 or higher so I wasn't too far off. I am probably biased against him but even with the bias I was only slightly off. In fact Cladeo rated 8 points as over 6/10 or higher, only 1 6/10 as well, maybe that AI is more bias than me, I don't know. 

What do you think would be a high enough rating to be a little worried about his negative impact? Or do you believe having facist traits could be good for a leader? Cos that could be an argument 

 

Its the fact you want to call him a fascist, but this is an oversimplificaiton and incorrect assesment. Neither GPT4o or Claude agreed with the label, yet you did, this is your bias

[Davino]

Quote

It’s because she’s a black women. That’s as simple as it gets. Not a lot of people in this country are ready for that in all honesty.

I know why they elected Trump

They feel represented!

You average the psyche of all America and that's what you get, Trump, twice!

[Scarecrow]

1 minute ago, bambi said:

What are you talking about? You hoenstly think posting long videos is some type of serious good faith discussion?

Lets try to see if we can get on a level, we dont have to agree, but surely you can engage in a dicussion, Ill start:

While JD Vance is clearly going to benfit commercially from being Trumps VP; he has vested interested in venture capailism, and has many pro-capialsit friends, its clear this will benefit him and those around him. However with that said, hes clearly intellignet and with the boundaries of his own self-itnerests (private markets, unregulated markets), to my view he wants to genuinely help america. To me hes credible and capable intellectually, he isn't like Hariss or Trump (both incompetent). I dont agree with all of Vances view or positions, but he often admits when he doesnt know something and doesnt overstep (Rogan podcasts). What exactly about him to you dislike or disagree with

Yeah I’m trying to get a clear answer why people don’t like him so much. Fine not to like him but people act like this guys the devil. Trying to understand why 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, What Am I said:

Whether it'd ultimately be good or bad, it seems like someone similar to Bernie is their only feasible option. The hunger for the anti-establishment viewpoint is growing, and not just in the US.

But wall street, many lobbies, military industrial complex etc. are seemingly not going to allow that. (tinfoil hat post)

[Happy Lizard]

 

Something about Trump’s victory is iffy/strange, not saying he didn’t win, but something sounds very odd about the US electing someone with so many flaws, not for the first time, but actually after one term and after losing once. 
 

 

[fanta]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ask yourself why California is the most successful state in the country.

They are leaving now that prices are sky high, but why did they come at all? Why are prices sky high?

Businesses leave precisely because Green is not good for pure business. If you want pure capitalism, that's Texas.

Sorry, I am Scandinavian, but could you elaborate in which ways California is the most successful state?

Also, I have a perception of LA being a severely narcissistic city. I know SF is more lib etc, but aren't many people in this state virtue signaling?

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I thought California was riddled with crime because of how relaxed the punishments are for shoplifting?

Why would you assume that Green doesn't come with problems?

As if problems vanish when people go Green.

These are childish notions, not serious understanding of complex issues.

Edited 13 hours ago by Leo Gura

[What Am I]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

But wall street, many lobbies, military industrial complex etc. are seemingly not going to allow that. (tinfoil hat post)

Don't worry, I have quite the tinfoil hat myself, lol. In my personal opinion, a shaking up of the establishment may not be the worst thing, though it comes with some major risks.

[Lyubov]

 

6 minutes ago, Consept said:

I think the dems messed up not backing Bernie in the last 2 elections, he would've been the perfect counter foil for Trump 

Vaush is saying this as well. I said leftist populism is where Dems should go next. These are basically the same. Why the hesitation? 

[Leo Gura]

Bernie cannot even win a primary. Progressives are living in a fantasy land.

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Lyubov said:

 

Vaush is saying this as well. I said leftist populism is where Dems should go next. These are basically the same. Why the hesitation? 

Because the dems are also establishment. Are they going to go against themselves?

[Thought Art]

4 hours ago, Hardkill said:

How do you think that we can stay optimistic for the future?

Do you think that we can find a way to fight back for normalcy and progress for our country in this dark time?

I have no idea. Humanity must run it's course.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Thought Art

[Lyubov]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Bernie cannot even win a primary. Progressives are living in a fantasy land.

what if it's a right tool for the right job situation? why does the primary have to be an indicator of what a bold new path forward could be that perhaps revolutionize things for us? How is a neocon candidate who lost the primary in 2020 and their own state to Andrew Yang in 2020 a better solution? See things other may not. Just because left wing populism hasn't done well in the primaries doesn't mean it can't win in the general. The left has actively squashed out any shift away from this neocon approach, which got DESTROYED this election. It's done. Time to bury it in the grave and try something new. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Lyubov

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, bambi said:

What are you talking about? You hoenstly think posting long videos is some type of serious good faith discussion?

 

You are on an actualized.org forum, if you are not able to watch actualized.org video, learning the basic ideas and concepts that people use here, then there is no point to discuss anything.

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

What exactly about him to you dislike or disagree with

I already told you. He is full of shit. He is a person who will literally say or act in anyway he needs to in order to get what he wants. There is no point using Joe Rogan interview as an example of anything because his words are worth nothing. 

If you are unable to recognize this after observing him for 10 minutes, then there is nothing I can do to change your mind, because once again, we come back to the issue I've raised in the very beginning: your people reading skills suck. It is something that relies heavily on intuition and on your brain working to make lots of non-verbal calculations and pattern recognitions, which is a completely different skillset from trying to debate people on a forum.

You are clearly hyper logical, and possibly autistic, which is why this might be so hard for you to understand.

 

[Hardkill]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Bernie cannot even win a primary. Progressives are living in a fantasy land.

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am sick of all these leftist narratives. It's wrong.

“Abandoning working class people" is just a code word for: low developed people.

Yeah, Dems abandoned low developed people. That's why Dems are better than Repubs. Repubs cater to low development and that's why they win.

There is no greater enemy of the working class than Republicans and the capitalists who back Trump.

So, do you think given those reasons that Democrats are now doomed to never winning the presidency or Congress ever again?

Or will it ever be possible for the Democratic party to become the party of organized labor, the working class, and the South like it was with its New Deal Coalition?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Just because left wing populism hasn't done well in the primaries doesn't mean it can't win in the general.

Realistically it won't ever get to the general. And by the time it does, it will be smeared as gay trans feminist communism.

Even though people say they want change, in reality they don't. People don't take kindly to radical new ideas. They want to feel safe and comfortable, not to radically change their minds. That's why all this leftist talk of populism is silly.

Edited 13 hours ago by Leo Gura