2024 Election Discussion General

[QandC]

2 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Too haphazard an approach for my taste. I understand people via the ability to see from their perspective, but I place value judgements on perspectives based on that which is good. There is such a thing as toxic/malignant perspectives.

I choose to care about things being healthy rather than throw my hands in the air at the absurdity of it all and embracing apathy and hedonism in response to not knowing what to care about. 

Alright, understood. Touché my friend. The beautiful thing about Truth is that it surpasses all perspectives, makes it into one. It's like a spectrum you can move within, it's pretty awesome. I'm so happy I died before I'll die.

Edited 15 hours ago by QandC

[Scarecrow]

I was curious to know what makes trump a fascist? Is it like the loud let’s make our country great again nationalistic stuff like hitler? Like the vibes? Or has he done stuff related to fascist? People would say he’s worse than hilter and stuff. I’m not for him or anything, Jsut curious about facts. I Jsut have a different idea of what fascistism is. But I’m proably wrong idk 🤷‍♂️ 

[Lyubov]

also is it true Kamala lost her own state to Andrew Yang during the 2020 primaries? Damn she was not liked much, all things considered Dems did OK after having the sitting president step aside. Wonder if they shot their own foot? 

[bambi]

2 minutes ago, Consept said:

Do any of the other candidates have 60 lawsuits with 100s of complainants about not getting paid? Or sexual assault civil cases or 100s of reports of people that hes cheated. If you can show me other candidates being sued successfully as many times as him then I would have to agree they all have similar integrity, honesty but if you can then obviously he should be singled out because hes provably worse. This is through his career btw not just since he became president. I dont get why you are so defensive of him, this is all in court record, Harris was a prosecutor she was on the other side of the table, how can you say theyre close to the same level. Im not even a big Harris fan but its very clear. 

Well I never said Harris or Trump are the same or either similiar levels of integrity. So not sure where your getting this from. Nor am I defending Trump, again not sure where you are getting this from. I simply think your view and portrayal is reductive, bias and myopic.

Harris and Trump both lack integrity to me, in different amounts in different ways. Neither are impressive intellectually nor come across competent to lead the US, the VPs seem much more capable in my estimation. 

[Nemra]

21 minutes ago, Joshe said:

I'm predicting North Korea will send their troops home on Jan 6 or Jan 20-21 and that the only reason they went was to make Americans think Trump solved a problem when they go back home.

I think Putin is more cunning than that.

[Joshe]

9 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I think Putin is more cunning than that.

That seems pretty cunning to me. I don't think he'll back out of the war but I wouldn't be surprised if the whole North Korea thing is about giving Trump a political win. Think about it. If I'm right, everyone on the right, all centrists, many on the left, and even the mainstream media will give Trump credit for NK's troops going home. It's actually a good move considering Americans can't tell shit from apple butter.

Trump claimed he'd end the war. If the NK troops go home as soon as he's in there, he will gain much more credibility and be recognized as a competent leader.

Edited 15 hours ago by Joshe

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I can't wait for Leo's blog post where he tries to offer his explanation. If we're lucky, we might get a [blog] video.

Edited 15 hours ago by Husseinisdoingfine

[LordFall]

28 minutes ago, Scarecrow said:

I was curious to know what makes trump a fascist? Is it like the loud let’s make our country great again nationalistic stuff like hitler? Like the vibes? Or has he done stuff related to fascist? People would say he’s worse than hilter and stuff. I’m not for him or anything, Jsut curious about facts. I Jsut have a different idea of what fascistism is. But I’m proably wrong idk 🤷‍♂️ 

I asked chatGPT for the characteristics of fascism and that's what it gave me 

1. Authoritarian Leadership
2. Totalitarian Control
3. Nationalism and Xenophobia
4. Militarism and Violence
5. Anti-Communism and Anti-Democracy
6. Corporatism and State-Controlled Economy
7. Propaganda and Mass Mobilization
8. Rejection of Modernity and Embrace of Tradition
9. Scapegoating and the Creation of Enemies
10. Anti-Intellectualism

He seems to hit on most of these but time will tell. 

[Nemra]

28 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Trump claimed he'd end the war. If the NK troops go home as soon as he's in there, he will gain much more credibility and be recognized as a competent leader.

The funny thing will be that Trump will actually believe that he ended the war. 😂

Ok, ok, that is genius.

Edited 14 hours ago by Nemra

[bambi]

5 minutes ago, LordFall said:

I asked chatGPT for the characteristics of fascism and that's what it gave me 

1. Authoritarian Leadership
2. Totalitarian Control
3. Nationalism and Xenophobia
4. Militarism and Violence
5. Anti-Communism and Anti-Democracy
6. Corporatism and State-Controlled Economy
7. Propaganda and Mass Mobilization
8. Rejection of Modernity and Embrace of Tradition
9. Scapegoating and the Creation of Enemies
10. Anti-Intellectualism

He seems to hit on most of these but time will tell. 

I postes this two pages back, did you miss it?

Claude sonnet 1.5 

"Based on a careful analysis, while Trump has displayed some authoritarian tendencies and used rhetoric that overlaps with fascist characteristics, calling him a "fascist" would be an oversimplification. His actions and behavior are better described as authoritarian populism - concerning for democracy, but distinct from historical fascism which involved systematic state control, organized paramilitaries, and complete dismantling of democratic institutions. While Trump challenged democratic norms, he ultimately operated within and left office through constitutional processes."

GPT4o

"Based on his actions and rhetoric, Donald Trump does not fully meet the traditional definition of a fascist, though he exhibits authoritarian and nationalist traits. He aligns more closely with right-wing populism, marked by challenges to democratic norms, a strong cult of personality, and confrontational tactics against opposition, rather than the full structural control and repression typical of fascism."

[LordFall]

@bambi I like your paragraphs better but they seem like a precursor. That's like saying Adolf Hitler didn't yet meet the definition of Fascism in the 1920s. The supreme court, Senate and congress are all Republican now so he'll have his way towards his fascist goals. Or he'll turn into a community focused benefactor, here's hoping! 

[QandC]

3 minutes ago, bambi said:

I postes this two pages back, did you miss it?

Claude sonnet 1.5 

"Based on a careful analysis, while Trump has displayed some authoritarian tendencies and used rhetoric that overlaps with fascist characteristics, calling him a "fascist" would be an oversimplification. His actions and behavior are better described as authoritarian populism - concerning for democracy, but distinct from historical fascism which involved systematic state control, organized paramilitaries, and complete dismantling of democratic institutions. While Trump challenged democratic norms, he ultimately operated within and left office through constitutional processes."

GPT4o

"Based on his actions and rhetoric, Donald Trump does not fully meet the traditional definition of a fascist, though he exhibits authoritarian and nationalist traits. He aligns more closely with right-wing populism, marked by challenges to democratic norms, a strong cult of personality, and confrontational tactics against opposition, rather than the full structural control and repression typical of fascism."

They use Fascism as a buzz-word. If they'd try Mussolini's Italy, I think they would change their perception of fascism quite radically.

[Scarecrow]

5 minutes ago, bambi said:

I postes this two pages back, did you miss it?

Claude sonnet 1.5 

"Based on a careful analysis, while Trump has displayed some authoritarian tendencies and used rhetoric that overlaps with fascist characteristics, calling him a "fascist" would be an oversimplification. His actions and behavior are better described as authoritarian populism - concerning for democracy, but distinct from historical fascism which involved systematic state control, organized paramilitaries, and complete dismantling of democratic institutions. While Trump challenged democratic norms, he ultimately operated within and left office through constitutional processes."

GPT4o

"Based on his actions and rhetoric, Donald Trump does not fully meet the traditional definition of a fascist, though he exhibits authoritarian and nationalist traits. He aligns more closely with right-wing populism, marked by challenges to democratic norms, a strong cult of personality, and confrontational tactics against opposition, rather than the full structural control and repression typical of fascism."

Intresting Thankyou 

[Scarecrow]

1 minute ago, QandC said:

They use Fascism as a buzz-word. If they'd try Mussolini's Italy, I think they would change their perception of fascism quite radically.

Yeah thought it was a buzz word. Lots of buzz words out there. Just  a very big claim to call him that to me 

[Zega]

@QandC I don't think it's hyperbole to say he is fascist. I know the left likes to throw that term around but his deportation policy is almost exactly like what happened with the Jews. Not to mention he wants to dismantle bureaucracy and place loyalist in positions of power. His speeches even align with Hitler's.

Do we have to start gassing immigrants before we realize this? 

[Scarecrow]

3 minutes ago, Zega said:

@QandC I don't think it's hyperbole to say he is fascist. I know the left likes to throw that term around but his deportation policy is almost exactly like what happened with the Jews. Not to mention he wants to dismantle bureaucracy and place loyalist in positions of power. His speeches even align with Hitler's.

Do we have to start gassing immigrants before we realize this? 

Saying his immigration strategy being almost exactly like what happened to the Jews is Jsut another big claim to me. Relating the guy to someone who killed millions of people  is horrible to be. I’m not a fan of the guy but damn.

[zazen]

On 05/11/2024 at 5:43 PM, zazen said:

If you can control what thoughts can be expressed but claim your opponents are facists, who is closer to facism?

If you are so afraid of authoritarian facists from ever being in power, why not defend the right to bear arms in case of this future tyranny?

If cancel culture isn't real, why was JK rowling publicly shamed and boycotted for expressing her opinion on gender?

If big tech doesn't serve a political agenda, why do we see a pattern of collusion suppressing conservative content, with twitter files being the most prominent?

Historically, facist authoritarianism:

- controlled the flow of information and silenced dissent such as the ministry of propoganda in Nazi Germany.

- demanded idealogical purity and loyalty to toe the main narrative or suffer social or professional punishment.

- took over eduction and culture instilling a narrow worldview through the a specific lens - which today is progressive

- aligned with corporate power such as Mussolini's Italy 

- claims the moral high ground and convinces themselves their the good guys 

- claimed to care about the will of the people but sideline popular candidates for leadership which today is what happened to Bernie, Tulsi and RFK.

The left warns of a hypothetical authoritarian right meanwhile employing tactics similar to past authoritarian regimes. 

Kamala literally flirted with the idea of mandatory gun buybacks and believes in equity which demands the continuous theft of producers to equalize the playing field. You think a country whose DNA was built on rebellion and being wary of government overreach is going to part ways with their means of protection from government? LOL. Classical liberals wanted protection from the state, and for the state to be in their service. Modern latte chugging liberals want the state to protect them from microagressions. Built different.

 

 

Are the left immune from behaving in authoritarian or facist ways?

[Joshe]

9 minutes ago, Zega said:

Do we have to start gassing immigrants before we realize this? 

The movie "Don't Look Up" on Netflix is so good at highlighting this foolishness. Half the country refuses to see the imminent danger right in front of them, and when they finally do acknowledge it, they fantasize about how it's a golden opportunity for prosperity. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Joshe

[Raze]

Good analysis

 

[Joshe]