2024 Election Discussion General

[zazen]

On 10/28/2024 at 1:47 PM, zazen said:

Trump can definetely brings chaos which could be very bad. The question is whether people want to live through more of the status quo which is what KAMALA and co stand for - Keep America Mediocre And Lacking Ambition.

We will collectively fail to understand Trumpism if we try to understand Trump. Because this transcends him - but people try to understand him, rather than what made him come about to begin with.

And this isn’t isolated to America but to the West more broadly, except that Europes version isn’t as cartoonish and stark. Trump, Boris, Bolsonaro etc are simply derivatives - streams coming from a populist sea of resentment and rebellion against a betrayal of the social contract - that the ruling class has the best interest of those it rules over, and that life gets better for the next generation.

Populists are simply willing to bet on change, even if it means chaos, because the current they’re currently swimming in is drowning their identity, dignity and dreams.

On 10/28/2024 at 6:31 PM, zazen said:

The type of attitude among liberals is what fuels what populists claim to despise. The mockery and dismissal of legitimate grievances.

If we’re arguing that Trump single handedly turned millions of apolitical people into vocal critics of the system, we’re missing the larger picture. Trump didn’t create the grievances of his supporters - he tapped into frustrations that were already simmering beneath the surface. The idea that these folks “weren’t complaining before Trump” assumes that dissatisfaction only matters when it’s vocalized, ignoring the years of quiet resentment over policies that many felt betrayed their interests - though they may not have much understanding of them.

And if Trump is the sole reason for this populist anger, how do we explain the rise of similar movements across Europe? Are we to believe that every working class voter in these countries is just “following vibes” and “ignorant of governance,” or is there a broader trend here - an expression of frustration with a political establishment that has increasingly catered to elites while leaving ordinary people behind. Populism doesn’t come with polished talking points or think tank approved narratives - doesn’t mean we dismiss these people because they aren’t into politics or have the base knowledge to discuss it. 

Progressives defend vulgarity and public debauchery as “human expression,” as if slapping the label of “freedom” on it suddenly makes it profound. Maybe not everyone sees it as some enlightened celebration of freedom. People are free to live their lives as they wish behind closed doors. The issue arises when this “expression” spills out into the public square, pushed onto communities that didn’t ask for it. For many who don’t live in cosmopolitan bubbles, it feels like yet another slap in the face from a society that once upheld certain standards and values.

And this is the point - populists who don’t care for policy or government wanted to be left alone (as mentioned - they’re busy being apolitical watching sports, hunting and fishing) yet they now feel they can’t be. Populism’s rise stems from a feeling of being forced to accept cultural shifts they don’t want. Urban centres naturally become centres of media and export a culture that reverberates through the American heartland. Coastal liberal conciousness feels foreign to a more core conservative consciousness in middle America.

The above will be the leftist meltdown if Republicans win. But don’t worry - we either face, acknowledge and rectify populist grievances which are the back bone of society ie the working class, or we await their come back like a rising populist Phoenix ready to burn our democratic asses.

 

On 10/29/2024 at 9:32 PM, zazen said:

There’s more important issues than these marginal ones.

Neoliberalism creates bipartisan economic grievances for everyone. But a dominant liberal culture on top of this intensifies the discontent on the right. It’s a double whammy for them. Economics is the foundational grievance for all, a punch to the gut. But cultural dominance of a progressive bent is the slap on the face for conservative oriented people. Democrats and liberals feel perfectly at home in this cultural environment. And because they align closely with the Democrats on these cultural issues, they assume the party will fix their economic problems too, despite evidence to the contrary. Their populist rage is culturally pacified. 
 

 

Red pill. 

 

[Javfly33]

11 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

Judgement, not experience.

When people say things like this I just wonder what info/news they're consuming...

@Salvijus I agree with you too.

It seems It has become popular to hate on Trump just because.

Perception wise I get a more sinister and false vibe from this Kamala women than from Trump.

[zazen]

 

On 10/27/2024 at 4:19 PM, zazen said:

MAGA is more than just a man, though Trump set the fire for it. It's not about the contender but about the cause - Trump is just the cartoonish mascot cheerleading for that cause, regardless of his conduct and personal life. The same reason quite a few Pro-Palestinians were cheering on Hamas - non of them in their right mind would cheer for the death of civilians, but its not about them or their conduct, its the cause.

Trump articulated and gave voice to that cause, and it is a just one. Progressive leftism and liberalism went too far. Populism is a big fuck you to the establishment that failed the vast majority, and mocks most peoples sensibilities. Liberalism magnified the marginalised, whilst marginalising the majority. Liberal progressivism didn't just the push boundaries of taboo (which is healthy in an evolving society) but demolished them completely and all too quickly.

The end result is a society living lost at sea in moral relativism. Pride parades with naked vulgarity on display, twerking drag queens in front of kids, emojis of a pregnant man actually existing on most communication apps. How does one feel okay raising kids in this sort of society? This is what many Americans fear being exported out of blue cities to their cities.

Then it’s the disdain for masculinity and framing even the most natural of masculine impulses as toxic - mocking the essence of half of humanity, which are the very backbone of a society. The back bone of society that makes it run on a foundational level is the working class - which was gutted out to globalist corporate parasites. Decent men wanting to make a decent living to be able to provide for a family - not only was that taken from them, their very essence was mocked in the process.

Can’t denigrate the back bone of society without them coming back - bonified, dignified, and ready to confront those that turned their backs on them.

On 10/27/2024 at 7:30 PM, zazen said:

What if this phenomena isn’t just isolated to Trump and America but a common pattern across the West atm. Its populism. Understand populism and you’ll understand its derivative that is Trumpism. This “Trumpism” isn’t going away with Trump - as long as large cohorts of the populace aren’t respected, let alone catered to. If the Democrats and the left in general didn’t deride men as a category, especially the working man - we wouldn’t have this populist phoenix coming to set fire on our asses.

The hope is that Trumps ill conduct and brashness doesn't brush off on and erode the political machine - but that the team who is much more competent than he is oils and makes the machine work - not for the entrenched establishment but for the people. Of course it will also serve a new faction of elite interests, but if it can work for the people in conjunction, that is more welcome than the current status quo which doesn't.

Red pill 2.

 

[Buck Edwards]

34 minutes ago, josemar said:

You would know all about that, wouldn't you? White supremacist Indian woman :facepalm: or you think we'd forget about your history, @Preety_India

And no, Trump is not a white supremacist, other than in the minds of some extreme leftists... repeating the extreme left party lies.

Well. I'm definitely guilty of my history. Sure. But people always make mistakes. Growth lies in overcoming those mistakes and being able to see one's own blindspots. I consumed some right wing media stuff but that doesn't make me a white supremacist. I harbored such feelings because I was ignorant and being right wing radicalized is the most easiest thing on the internet. There's a huge difference between me and Trump. I overcame my blindspots about the political situation, yet Trump has always been a white supremacist forever, his identity revolves around it, he calls them proud boys, he relishes in Charlottesville like incidents instead of calling them out. White supremacy is not so much about joining a random group on a whim. It's about a deep embedded ideology that the country belongs to white people, a white nationalist sentiment, that is constantly seen in Trump's campaign speeches, it's a lot more about Make America White Again rather than Make America Great Again. I mean his whole anthem revolves around it. I mean these election results are in itself a testimony that we lost to White Supremacy more than anything, you can call it leftist idiocy or whatever. Well these Americans wanted a white supremacist in power and they finally got their wet dreams, so I guess be proud then. 

Edited November 6 by Buck Edwards

[zazen]

On 11/1/2024 at 9:27 PM, zazen said:

Me critiquing the excesses of the left, and observing how this plays into a reactionary right who have their own excesses - isn’t me endorsing the right or overlooking their crassness either. I’m simply pointing out the rise of populism that is based upon economics as the gut punch, with cultural dislocation layered on top as the slap in the face. The whole left isn’t some caricature of “wokism” and neither are the whole right a caricature of some “ATV riding hillbilly” excited to show off his rifle.

The institutional sway is clearly progressive. One side clearly controls the cultural narrative that is adopted by academia, media and corporations. Progressivism basically has an ideological monopoly over institutions that have an outsized, disproportionate influence. This makes conservatives feel uneasy and want to rebel. That’s why they celebrate Musk buying Twitter or The Daily wire being what it is - they’re building parallel networks because they feel the existing ones deviated too far from their core values.

We are seeing a phenomenon we see in every empire that reaches a stage of peak prosperity of dominance and decadence. At the end of an empire’s cycle, we see moral experimentation, a loosening of boundaries and an indulgence in individual freedoms that can feel to some like chaos or “moral decay.” Societies at this stage of the cycle often spiral into divisiveness and moral fluidity. The difference is that while past forms of decadence indulged in an excess of the senses ie feasts and orgies in Rome - US/Western decadence is redefining foundational claims about our senses, about reality, about the reality of identity and biology.

Another difference is that past decadence was an elite past time confined to aristocrats, today it’s mainstream because of media and institutional buy in which then disseminates this decadence. Promoting decadence is speed running a society into decline - I”m not a doomer nor a moral bible thumper, this is simply observational and has a causal chain that would make this post to lengthy to go into.

The right’s resistance to progressive issues isn’t solely about hatred or bigotry either, although that exists in its extreme factions. It’s often about a fear of losing any sense of order or stability in a world that seems to be reimagining the very foundations of reality. That’s not an excuse for prejudice, but it’s a piece of the larger picture. When you push people’s norms to the breaking point, there’s going to be pushback. When you force one version of progress without a balanced dialogue, people dig their heels in.

 

The paradox of progressive values - compassion, universal human dignity, equality - is that they have roots in the ethical teachings of Christianity itself. Christianity introduced these values to the Western world as a counterpoint to the more individualistic, honor-based morality of Europe’s pagan past. It’s as if the cultural left has inherited Christianity’s ethical framework but stripped it of its religious context, advocating for what are essentially Christian values without acknowledging their origin. They’re promoting an ethic of kindness, inclusivity, and justice, which were revolutionary ideas introduced by early Christianity into the hierarchical and often brutal societies of Europe. These values have secularized and embedded themselves in Western culture to the point where they’re seen as simply “human” values rather than specifically religious ones.

Meanwhile on the other side, we see a similar irony among many on the religious right, particularly evangelical neocons. Although they claim to defend Christianity and see themselves as champions of “Christian values,” their focus often leans toward nationalism, militarism, and capitalist individualism - ideals that align more closely with a pre-Christian, pagan ethos of dominance and power. They embody the warrior ethic or “master morality” that Nietzsche described as characteristic of Europe’s pagan past, even as they claim the mantle of Christianity.

In essence, it’s almost like a role reversal or a change in costume. The progressives have adopted Christianity’s ethical core but shed the religious shell, while many conservatives have held onto the religious identity of Christianity but seem to have embraced an ethos that often contradicts its teachings on compassion and humility.

This contradiction is a fundamental part of Western identity: it’s a civilization at war with itself, torn between the humility and compassion it claims to cherish and the conquest driven, imperial instincts it can’t seem to shake. Western politics is a battleground between these two impulses, with the secular left pushing for the communal values rooted in the East, and the conservative right clinging to an identity it often doesn’t understand, mistaking power and dominance for faith.

In the end, the West is haunted by the very ethos it borrowed and transformed. It’s a civilization that took on Christianity, tried to bend it to its old pagan ideals, and now finds itself forever in conflict between these two. And as long as the West clings to its myth of moral superiority while hiding its imperial intentions under noble rhetoric, it will remain a culture divided - struggling, as it always has, with its own reflection.

 

Red pill 3 and we out.

[Sincerity]

3 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Salvijus I agree with you too.

It seems It has become popular to hate on Trump just because.

Yeah yeah, just because... 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/listen-to-the-jeffrey-epstein-tapes-i-was-donald-trumps-closest-friend/

And the thousand other horrific things about him.

[Alex4]

Non-American here. how is it that Southern states like Louisiana and Mississippi vote so overwhelmingly red, even though there’s a large Black population? Are there Black people voting for Trump there?

[Ulax]

36 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Imma make myself a chamomile tea

Would recommend meal prepping chamomile tea for the next 4 years lol

[TheEnigma]

All the bible belt states won for Republican. Wouldn't their faith in God teach them not to vote for Trump?! Sorry I just don't get it, can someone please explain?

[Bobby_2021]

Democrats have no one to blame but themselves. 

This was an easily winnable election that they fumbled the moment they decided to go with Biden for president.  

Kamala was a poor candidate. Dems were just stuck with her because they couldn't have anyone else because the funds raised were stuck with her.

Disappointed by democrats today. You cannot blame the Americans, blame the democrats and their donors.

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, TheEnigma said:

All the bible belt states won for Republican. Wouldn't their faith in God teach them not to vote for Trump?! Sorry I just don't get it, can someone please explain?

 

One minute explanation. 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Disappointed by democrats today. You cannot blame the Americans, blame the democrats and their donors.

No. Enough of this nonsense.

This falls squarely on the American public. They were given the clearest choice between decency vs pure corruption, authoritarianism, and hyper-capitalism. They made their choice and revealed who they are.

Edited November 6 by Leo Gura

[mojsterr]

1 hour ago, Sea said:

Americans were probably just not ready to have a woman of colour as president.

Hint: It's not because she's a woman of colour

[Something Funny]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. Enough of this nonsense.

This falls squarely on the American public. They were given the clearest choice between decency vs pure corruption, authoritarianism, and hyper-capitalism. They made their choice and revealed who they are.

Only half though. A lot of people voted for Kamala, if you think about it.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Donald Trump victory speech, from Mar-a-Lago

 

Edited November 6 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Husseinisdoingfine]

It’s official that the GOP has a majority in the Senate.

The House of Reps hasn’t been called yet, but projected to have a GOP majority.

[Talinn]

6 minutes ago, mojsterr said:

Hint: It's not because she's a woman of colour

I think a woman could win, but she'd have to be a miracle golden goose that strikes the right balance between being smart, hot, and have some masculine energy. A 1 in 1 billion find basically...

Otherwise women are sex objects and transgenders and immigrants are inhuman beasts, not fit for the "highest office in the land"..

[Harikrishnan]

Even Subcontinent had women prime ministers and presidents and Amerika never had till now. 😂 maybe US is not that developed like people think.

Edited November 6 by Harikrishnan

[ndm678]

Congrats to President Elect Trump!

Not the person I selected to take the position, but here we are.

I'm blessed to be in a position of political acceptence to the tides of change.

 Dude is gonna take the electorial and popular vote (which held a less than 1% chance of occuring).

The step forward for the world has been set. 

Whether I like it or not is irreverent, this is the reality we all, as a world, have to juggle with.

The world wants what it wants. There will be multiple generations born under this banner (which I love because the Universe gets to experience such).

Let's buckle our safety belts.. and see what the Universe has to hold for us (I could spend a century lementing the opposite, but we always are where we are).

Some people want to set the world on fire, and I don't know where I stand outside of 'what is'.....

[Ulax]

Man, sincerely though, this is pretty depressing.