Is Islam a form of oppression against women?

[Scholar]

Religion is a symptom of a far deeper problem that plagues all human beings: Ignorance. 

 

Ridding the world of all religions will not rid the world of ignorance. Ridding the world of ignorance will rid the world of all religions.

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Ero said:

I was raised Eastern Orthodox and not Muslim, so watch your projections. One doesn't need to be from a particular religion to see the clear biases. I was raised in the Balkans, so I am describing to you first-hand experience.

I assumed you where Muslim because your defensive of it. My bad.

1 hour ago, Ero said:

Secondly, observe that OP is talking about Islam specifically and not SD Blue stage in general, which makes his general framing islamophobic, building on top of gross oversimplifications, as I pointed out above. Suppression of women is not a feature of islam, but of a specific school of islam, which can be categorized by highly fundamentalist/ stage Blue dynamics. But that doesn't encapsulate the entirety of religion. The Catholic Church was involved with the slave trade. Does that make all christians colonialists? Step out of the bubble. 

Criticizing a religion is not bigotry. OP is not being discriminatory or irrational by asking questions.

Of course religion can evolve but that is not the case of the majority of it in human history. Its really just begging the question. Religion on a societal scale is almost always Stage Blue in action, which is the problem in terms of women's rights.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

BTW, if you want to learn a thing or two about Islam, run my signature/bio through google translate.

Edited October 11 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Davino]

@Spiritual Warfare Let's flip the debate upside down. In which ways first worlds countries opress women?

Quote

Media representation and objectification:

Unrealistic beauty standards and sexual objectification of women in Western media contribute to body image issues and eating disorders.

Political underrepresentation:

Despite progress, women remain underrepresented in political leadership roles in many Western countries.

Career penalties for motherhood:

Women often face career setbacks and discrimination due to pregnancy and childcare responsibilities.

Gender-biased healthcare:

Medical research has historically focused on male subjects, leading to gaps in understanding women's health issues.

Women's pain and health concerns are sometimes dismissed or underdiagnosed.

Tech industry discrimination:

Women face significant barriers and discrimination in the male-dominated tech industry, a key driver of modern economies.

Emotional labor expectations:

Women are often expected to manage not only their own emotions but also those of others in personal and professional settings.

Ageism and invisibility:

Older women in Western societies often face a "double jeopardy" of ageism and sexism, becoming increasingly invisible in media and public life.

So instead of focusing in the obvious less developed countries, what about self reflecting about our own culture and its limitations regarding women?

Moreover, in the ways we personally opress and misunderstand women, denying their emotions and a myriad of other activities.

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

BTW, if you want to learn a thing or two about Islam, run my signature/bio through google translate.

 

[Spiritual Warfare]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

@Spiritual Warfare Let's flip the debate upside down. In which ways first worlds countries opress women?

So instead of focusing in the obvious less developed countries, what about self reflecting about our own culture and its limitations regarding women?

Moreover, in the ways we personally opress and misunderstand women, denying their emotions and a myriad of other activities.

Thank you! This is a great eye-opener.

 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

5 minutes ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

 

Actually it’s supposed to translate as,

I testify there is no god but Allah, and Leo (Gura) is the messenger of Allah.

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

Media representation and objectification:

Unrealistic beauty standards and sexual objectification of women in Western media contribute to body image issues and eating disorders.

Political underrepresentation:

Despite progress, women remain underrepresented in political leadership roles in many Western countries.

Career penalties for motherhood:

Women often face career setbacks and discrimination due to pregnancy and childcare responsibilities.

Gender-biased healthcare:

Medical research has historically focused on male subjects, leading to gaps in understanding women's health issues.

Women's pain and health concerns are sometimes dismissed or underdiagnosed.

Tech industry discrimination:

Women face significant barriers and discrimination in the male-dominated tech industry, a key driver of modern economies.

Emotional labor expectations:

Women are often expected to manage not only their own emotions but also those of others in personal and professional settings.

Ageism and invisibility:

Older women in Western societies often face a "double jeopardy" of ageism and sexism, becoming increasingly invisible in media and public life.

Most of these issues are things that simply need time to be resolved as opposed to direct political action since women as a political and labor class is fairly young. You are not going to see change over night but the change that has happened till now is fairly rapid. Many of these questions are moot problems with that perspective (They should be taken serious though, of course).

There are differences between the sexes which aren't going to change in my opinion. Most women don't desire leadership roles for one, I think. The gold standard shouldn't be equity but freedom of opportunity. Men and women have different talents and proclivities which will express itself in society differently.

The medical example is funny because the opposite is true of therapy.

Sexual discrimination and harassment is apparently quiet prevalent recently at Blizzard, Ubisoft and the likes. A girl killed herself over rampant sexual harassment at Blizzard. A pregnant employee had her bottled breast-milk routinely stolen at the office. Its no accident that after all the lawsuits and exposing of these companies that they work really hard to project a "progressive" image.

The economical problem with working women is that being pregnant and working are fundamentally incompatible because you can't do both at the same time without either suffering. Its why historically women weren't the main breadwinners. Regulation of the labor market, workers leave, etc. will help compensate but it won't fundamentally solve the problem. It might be unsolvable I think.

[Ero]

4 hours ago, Basman said:

Criticizing a religion is not bigotry. OP is not being discriminatory or irrational by asking questions.

If it were someone else, I agree, but OP is known to make these types of posts coming from exactly a bigoted pov. There was a thread he started saying he wanted to kill all religious people. You can still find it. Hence, I chose a stronger tone. 
 

4 hours ago, Basman said:

I assumed you where Muslim because your defensive of it. My bad.

I have not taken offence, I just hope this teaches you to not be so quick with your assumptions. It is precisely what perpetuates the stereotypes and prevents dialogue.

[zazen]

12 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Nice. So that’s why Tim Pool (the Russian tool) is always wearing a beanie.

That's why Tim Pool and Ben Shapiro are more enlightened then both of us haha.

[Davino]

@Basman There's a reason why everything is the way it is.

I was trying to serve as a mirror of our own culture. Many times I see critiques of less developed countries, but honest self assessment of your own culture and way of life is rarely seen.

I think there is more value in self introspecting on the limitations of your own culture and attitudes than about other places you really know very little about. In the end, you should be doing both.

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

That's why Tim Pool and Ben Shapiro are more enlightened then both of us haha.

Yea that’s also why Buddhist monks, shaolins, Krilin and Leo shave their head. Because they want to tone down their enlightenment it makes sense now.

 

It’s all horse 🐴 crap.

[Basman]

3 hours ago, Davino said:

@Basman There's a reason why everything is the way it is.

I was trying to serve as a mirror of our own culture. Many times I see critiques of less developed countries, but honest self assessment of your own culture and way of life is rarely seen.

I think there is more value in self introspecting on the limitations of your own culture and attitudes than about other places you really know very little about. In the end, you should be doing both.

Its obviously harder to assess something you are part of. But learning about less developed places and pointing out their backwardness makes you appreciate living in a developed country more. I'm so glad I live where I do.

Edited October 12 by Basman

[Alex4]

They are forced to wear veils to protect them from sexual harassment from other men.

[Spiritual Warfare]

14 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Actually it’s supposed to translate as,

I testify there is no god but Allah, and Leo (Gura) is the messenger of Allah.

😂🤪

[Nivsch]

In certain aspects it is for sure.

The thing is that not every women in Arab countries will see this in this way. Some will succeed to rise above the matrix and see how they are oppressed.

Some will see their feminine role as intertwined and harmonized with their dressing and this will not necessarily be seen as "bad". Oppression has relativity to it, as well as truth in.

I can take this one step up and see that the exact same problem happens in the western health system. Part of which is helpful and good, but part of which is oppressing. How? When people get chemically depended on their pills in the long term what sometimes make their problem even more complicated than before the pills.

Or not any less oppressing is the fact that this 'Magic Pill' culture makes people to be zombies and not to develop any independent thinking about their problems. Isn't it an oppression too? For sure it is.

Nevertheless, this isn't by no means a recommendation to go this way or another because the issue is too complicated and requires personal familiarity. But just for the sake of this example.

Going back to the Islamic world. In our eyes as Westerners, women there seems to us as suffering deeply, but when you are already inmeshed in their culture, you will realize this web of norms will surely also yield good things and really a whole partially positive world we can't see as westerners.

Therefore, seeing the Islamic world as mainly oppressing, might be by itself a trap and indicating we are too inside a matrix.

Edited October 12 by Nivsch

[LoseYourvelf]

Religions are just interpretations of God/Gods, so what's the point of them? No story, statue or painting under religion even captures 0.5% of it, it just confuses the shit out of my trips having all this bloated fake imagery in my head, we're humans, symbols resonate, worshiping the symbols though? 

Humans have never captured God / the Gods, starts to get a bit annoying when you think of it that way

Then applied if you're not dealing w women case by case and to better her life too you're just a bully/control freak let's be real

Rules for thee and not for me, religion is a way to escape God in this human plane, that's all

Real interactions with God he doesn't care how much you've worshipped or followed some rules that are lies, I doubt the people who started Islam went as deep as plenty of people here have went, seriously they got so hyperslapped they started a movement hahahahaha. For example, myself, I'll realise I'm Jesus then get back to fucking meditating because it's horse shit avoidance tactics coming from the ego. That's what we expect of meditators in 2024, and even saying "i realise im jesus" isn't capturing the power of the awakening, i'm more than jesus, i'm jesus 2.0, so no that won't do, religion and ancient teachers won't do and their trips won't do either, no, not in full.

Is this the shit we're taking into the future? Sure thing, I won't be having any part though and I will judge you

I'm not even interested in being your ally or friend if you're religious, you're wasting my battle and the battle for those I love with your drivel, I won't even entertain your psychosis

I don't want your Jesus, or your Jesus 2.0, I don't want your Muhammad XS Max, I want your TRUE Satori

There's no time for murder or rape in Satori, just death

And don't choose to confuse my use of the term Satori with the Buddhist religion or practices, please. I'm integrating something I don't have the word for (my very current awakening) but Satori does fine at what I mean in the context of religion and its leaders and their trips, thank ya very much.

God doesn't worship any religion or Religion at all, religion is what worships God

Edited October 12 by LoseYourvelf

[Ero]

https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/10/17/hopes-for-religious-harmony-come-to-life-in-the-muslim-vatican

[Bobby_2021]

To answer your question, yes. They oppress women in daylight and give zero fucks about it.

Even bigger of a question that baffled me is this: why the left side with Islam?

[Jacob Morres]

7 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Even bigger of a question that baffled me is this: why the left side with Islam?

Bc they're oppressed in some ways. See: post-9/11 anti-muslim sentiment in america, camps in China etc. 

They're also a diverse group and not all radicals (see: Muslims on this forum)

But yeah, in the pursuit of trying to protect Muslims, they can be blind to some negative aspects that occurs in the diaspora

Part of the right has the opposite problem, they can't see the diversity 

Edited October 20 by Jacob Morres