Posted October 11 (edited) In the past, I'd made this thread: where I conclusively debunked the idea of 'creepiness'. What I found is that if you hold women accountable for their own social comfort-levels, the idea of 'creepiness' stands no ground. This got me thinking, though - why is this myth so popular, socially? Why is it so popular to call men 'creeps', not giving a damn about how it affects his feelings, how it psychologically damages him? And, here's what I saw - there is a massive double-standard when it comes to who's held responsible for their own levels of social comfort. If you're a man, you are responsible for your own comfort-levels. No matter how much you've been bullied in school, how traumatized you are, your comfort-levels are your responsibility. You have no feelings, no emotions, your feelings and emotions should not be affected by what others do at all. If they are, that's your fault. Nobody gives a shit, and this is not a problem. This is 'just the way things are'. But, if you're a woman, now, your feelings and emotions are everyone else's fault, not your own! No matter what psychological issues you have and are projecting onto others, you can do no wrong, socially. If you have a social issue, that is necessarily someone else's fault, you can't do anything about it. Everyone else has to fix it for you, society has to change for you. Thoughts? Edited October 11 by mr_engineer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 This is just your projection. Women have to compromise with their own emotions. You can't talk about creeps as a man because you don't have the experience of what a "creep" does to a woman. I had to deal with a lot of creeps and it was traumatising as hell. So what gives you the right to decide who is a creep and who is not. Oh you mean you'll make rules for women now and how they should feel. Good luck with that. My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 (edited) @Buck Edwards I know for a fact that women call perfectly fine guys 'creeps', guys who never did anything wrong. Why?! Women are not held responsible for their feelings. I'm not telling women how to feel, I'm saying that facts should matter more than feelings. Edited October 11 by mr_engineer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 10 minutes ago, mr_engineer said: @Buck Edwards I know for a fact that women call perfectly fine guys 'creeps', guys who never did anything wrong. Why?! Women are not held responsible for their feelings. I'm not telling women how to feel, I'm saying that facts should matter more than feelings. Why shouldn't feelings matter? Especially if there are genuine feelings. You know that feelings can have psychological impact right? If you don't care about other's feelings, why should you hold them accountable for your feelings? My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 Just now, Buck Edwards said: Why shouldn't feelings matter? Especially if there are genuine feelings. You know that feelings can have psychological impact right? If you don't care about other's feelings, why should you hold them accountable for your feelings? Calling someone a 'creep' is an accusation, that your feelings are their fault. That's not okay. I'm not saying feelings shouldn't matter, I'm saying that when judging people, facts should matter more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 Just now, mr_engineer said: Calling someone a 'creep' is an accusation, that your feelings are their fault. That's not okay. I'm not saying feelings shouldn't matter, I'm saying that when judging people, facts should matter more. But if someone acts like a creep, shouldn't they be called that? My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 @mr_engineer a few years ago, a guy forced and threatened me to see his...you know what....he threatened to harass me if I didn't say yes to his demand. What should I call that person? My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said: But if someone acts like a creep, shouldn't they be called that? If they're doing something illegal, threaten to call the cops. If they're not doing anything illegal, they're just doing something that you don't like, maybe you need to reflect on how you judge people you don't like and/or you need to learn to keep your distance from them. 1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said: @mr_engineer a few years ago, a guy forced and threatened me to see his...you know what....he threatened to harass me if I didn't say yes to his demand. What should I call that person? A narcissist. If he actually did harass you, he's a criminal who deserves to be thrown in jail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 My problem with the word 'creep' is that it mixes up legal ways of hitting on women, with harassment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 1 minute ago, mr_engineer said: If they're doing something illegal, threaten to call the cops. If they're not doing anything illegal, they're just doing something that you don't like, maybe you need to reflect on how you judge people you don't like and/or you need to learn to keep your distance from them. A narcissist. If he actually did harass you, he's a criminal who deserves to be thrown in jail. When I told the guy that I'll call the cops if he harasses me, he said "do what you want, here's my name, number and city." Such guys aren't scared of going to jail. They are sociopathic. And often the cops leave them alone. They get an arousal out of harassing girls. They have gotten away with it many times. He continued sending me sexual messages and I blocked him. But then he would use some way to contact me and laugh at me. He said to me "if the cops don't do anything to ISIs terrorists, what will they do to me?" He thinks the law cannot do anything to him. The problem is not so simple. Many rapists don't go to prison. And yes he kept harassing me with phone calls and disturbing messages and my discomfort was his pleasure. My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 @Buck Edwards Did you call 911? What happened? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 Just now, mr_engineer said: @Buck Edwards Did you call 911? What happened? I was scared of him. So I did not call anyone. I was scared that he will find me and kill me. My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 1 minute ago, Buck Edwards said: I was scared of him. So I did not call anyone. I was scared that he will find me and kill me. That doesn't get fixed if you don't call anyone, right? There's no compromising with criminals in a civil society. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 (edited) @mr_engineer Yeah I think you make some great points. I think you are generalizing somewhat, but it is quite common for some women to talk that way. My thinking is that we are all responsible for handling our own emotions, except for when experiencing abuse. This, to my understanding, is also pretty much boundary psych 101 too. So, if a woman feels uncomfortable, whilst talking to a guy and calls him creepy, and says he makes me uncomfortable, that isn't taking responsibility for her emotions. I guess there is a middle ground where someone is acting weirdly. Like he starts intensely licking his lips, and whispering 'I need you mummy', whilst talking to her or something like that lmao. In that situation I think its okay to call him a creep. So, I dunno. I think my point is really for when a guy gets called creepy just when he is socially awkward. Like the girl just feels uncomfortable, and so does the guy, and then the girl blames the guy for making her uncomfortable and labels him creepy. And i think unfortunately it isn't uncommon for socially awkward dudes, who aren't being weird, to get labels creeps, or creepy by some women. That said, I guess that only really applies to a certain subset of women. Some types of women are very empathetic. But I guess ultimately i'd say for the subcategories of women who do call those dudes creepy they don't get called out enough for it. Edited October 11 by Ulax Be-Do-Have There is no failure, only feedback Do what works Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 6 minutes ago, mr_engineer said: That doesn't get fixed if you don't call anyone, right? There's no compromising with criminals in a civil society. I think the only solution is the collective rise in consciousness in society. Many women die when they call cops because the guy kills her out of revenge for sending him to jail. My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 @Ulax There are a couple of things that need to be done to solve this. 1. Everyone needs to know their rights. Women have the right to call the cops on guys who are committing a crime (being sexually explicit can be considered 'catcalling'). For this, everyone needs to know what is a crime and what's not a crime. 2. Everyone needs to take responsibility for their feelings and emotions, socially. Meaning, no blaming others for your feelings. Hurting someone's feelings isn't a crime, violating their boundaries is. There's a difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 (edited) @mr_engineer Agree with second point. But wait to solve what? Edited October 11 by Ulax Be-Do-Have There is no failure, only feedback Do what works Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 Just now, Ulax said: @mr_engineer Agree with second point. But wait to solve what? To figure out when a woman should call the cops vs when it's uncalled for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 10 minutes ago, mr_engineer said: That doesn't get fixed if you don't call anyone, right? There's no compromising with criminals in a civil society. 3 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said: I think the only solution is the collective rise in consciousness in society. Many women die when they call cops because the guy kills her out of revenge for sending him to jail. I think @Buck Edwards makes a good point. Imo, your argument places blame on the individual without considering the risks the individual takes in calling the cops. Be-Do-Have There is no failure, only feedback Do what works Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 11 @Ulax @Buck Edwards Fine. Would you be okay if he gets tired of harassing you and moves onto harassing someone else? Citizens have as much of a responsibility to create a civilized society as the government systems. This is bigger than one man harassing one woman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
