Is it really important and necessary to sleep with 20 girls?

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Even if it is a grind you need to get to a decent enough level to fix the problem. Mastery may not be needed, but some level of efficacy sure is, regardless of how pleasant it is to get there. Or else that need for intimacy is going to rot inside and infect everything.

Just get a girlfriend?

[The Renaissance Man]

@Something Funny Lol the point is that you can't get it without the skills. Don't underestimate the amount of people that can't get a girlfriend.

[Rishabh R]

@Leo Gura My biggest takeaway currently from your series is to allow you true self to get rejected / don't hide your attraction from a girl cause if you are rejected by a beautiful girl then there will be another beautiful girl right around the corner. I am rewatching the series. Maybe it's my 4th time I am rewatching it since when the series was released , I attracted a few girls. I made a post regarding it titled - Leo your how to get laid series is great. You can check that out. 

Thank you .

Edited October 12, 2024 by Rishabh R

[Happy Lizard]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The real motivation is personal growth. Or if you just enjoy it.

You're not gonna do 5000 approaches unless you enjoy the whole project.

You master golf if you love golf.

Guys who do well in game actually love going out, being out. Being out becomes more appealing than any girl.

@Leo Gura I wrote this yesterday I was spot on > ok I see so you think of approaching as if it it’s golf or learning to draw or skate, which means you are thinking about it with detachment.

I think it could be that I don’t look at it objectively like that, it’s isn’t like “screw it I’ll fall of the skateboard a 1000 times before I can do a double flip” I get lost in thinking there is much at stake which doesn’t make it fun.

so how do you get into that mindset? This is not talked about  explicitly and this is actually much needed to make pick up work. which is why I feel a disconnect when I hear about approaching 2000 women. Drawing is very fun for me, I can draw a 1000 not so good sketches and not even feel anything about it. So the question is How do I make the jump form that to pick up? 

Edited October 12, 2024 by Happy Lizard

[The Renaissance Man]

@Happy Lizard try NOT making that jump. Seriously, try not learning how to talk to women at all.

You may find that well, the problem doesn't get solved that way. "But I don't have a the mindset to go on such a journey! "I'll try a few approaches and that's it. Great, maybe 10 approaches".

"Problem not solved, this is more serious than I thought! Ok I'll do 100 approaches."

"Man I still suck!"

And there you go, reality makes you conscious of the requirement, and the mindset naturally comes as a result.

Edited October 12, 2024 by The Renaissance Man

[Something Funny]

10 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

@Something Funny Lol the point is that you can't get it without the skills. Don't underestimate the amount of people that can't get a girlfriend.

You do realise that 99% of people who have a girlfriend, wife, family, are not into pickup, right? You do not need to have "skills" to get a girlfriend. This is actually a limiting belief. Have you seen most guys in a relationship? They are just your average guy who plays video games, has a 9 to 5 job, and some friends who he drinks with on Friday.

[Something Funny]

@The Renaissance Man I had a friend in uni who was a super nerdy Turkish guy. Back then, I didn't even know what reddit is before he showed it to me. His favourite game was hearts of iron IV.

He got a girlfriend just because he had a girl friend who he would hangout with and go drinking beer with. And eventually they started dating and have been in a relationship for like 5 years since.

All he had to do was to be a normal person. Not act needy, desperate, not be into any weird red pill shit, etc.

[The Renaissance Man]

@Something Funny If it works for you, then great! In his series Leo talked about 6 ways to meet women. Pickup is one of them. By no means one needs pickup, nobody thinks that. There are pros and cons to each method. The most common is social circle, the one you're describing.

But if you suck and social circle hasn't worked for you, because you suck with women, what do you do? You can

A: create an awkward situation with all the women in the social group, who aren't that many anyway, so even the amount of practice you get is really low

B: approach strangers, low risk, and if they reject you, you don't still have them around awkwardly.

Plus, even if you're not awkward, social circle limits your options, and some people want more.

Very important that you notice I'm not saying once that you must do pickup, and Leo did not say it as well. You don't have to do anything. It's just that when you analyze all the options, for certain people (not everybody!!!) it's the best way to solve the problem.

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, The Renaissance Man said:

But if you suck and social circle hasn't worked for you, because you suck with women, what do you do? You can

 

Are you able to at least entertain the possibility that this is an issue, not your lack of pickup skills?

You don't suck, you don't have to be bad with women, you don't have to be awkward.

Plus, you don't even have to limit yourself to just your social circle.

Randomly talking to a girl on a bus, while you are on your way to work isn't pickup.

Meeting women at a pottery class, or at the gym, or at the gaming convention, isn't pickup.

[The Renaissance Man]

 

13 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

You do not need to have "skills" to get a girlfriend.

Then why do so many people struggle? 

I guess this would be your solution. But that's not aligned to the reality of many people, even if you don't know any of them, such people do exist. Just think about it, if it was so simple as you're saying, how come the dating industry is so huge? How come so many people talk about this weird red pill shit and don't realize "they just need to be normal"? Come on. Acknowledge the situation is more complex.

8 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

All he had to do was to be a normal person. Not act needy, desperate, not be into any weird red pill shit, etc.

 

[The Renaissance Man]

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

Randomly talking to a girl on a bus, while you are on your way to work isn't pickup.

Meeting women at a pottery class, or at the gym, or at the gaming convention, isn't pickup.

Yes it is.

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

You don't suck, you don't have to be bad with women, you don't have to be awkward.

This is a fantasy. After years of zero success and lots of suffering good luck changing an incel's idea that "he just needs to act normal". His normal has failed him countless times. He needs to rewire his entire social system, and that requires practice, and the best way to practice seems to be pickup. Simple as that.

[Something Funny]

16 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Yes it is.

19 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

No it's not.

17 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

and the best way to practice seems to be pickup. Simple as that.

What do you base this assumption on?

 

[Something Funny]

20 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

He needs to rewire his entire social system,

What he really needs is a psychotherapy. He needs to rewire his entire belief system, not social system.

21 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

good luck changing an incel's idea

You see, that's the whole problem. 

[Something Funny]

@The Renaissance Man I've thought of a nice metaphor / experiement. I am not an expert on drugs, but there is probably one that will make even the most introverted and shy person very confident and outgoing. 

If we take that person, give them the drug, and put them in a social situation where there are opportunities to find a girlfriend / get laid. Do you think their chances to get laid will increase, compared to them being sober?

Yes or no?

 

[The Renaissance Man]

Anyway, maybe I am actually biased toward pickup.

Why do you think pickup shouldn't be "pushed" as I suggest on people who haven't solved the dating problem?

Why is a psychotherapist, or even just learning to act normally and getting a girlfriend in your social group, or even approaching a girl on the bus, a superior alternative?

What are the cons in pickup that I'm not seeing?

Edited October 12, 2024 by The Renaissance Man

[Something Funny]

11 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Why is a psychotherapist, or even just learning to act normally and getting a girlfriend in your social group, or even approaching a girl on the bus, a superior alternative?

What are the cons in pickup that I'm not seeing?

Because no matter how many girls you approach, how successful you are with pickup, how much sex you have, you will still have the same low, conditional self-esteem and luck of self-love. It will never be enough. 

It's not about learning to act normally, or what dating strategy to choose. It's about developing unconditional self-love and learning to support yourself, so that no matter if you have never had sex in your life or if sleep with a new girl every day, it doesn't affect your sense of worth.

My drug metaphor was to show that getting a girlfriend doesn't require some elaborate skills. There is no drug that will make you a great software engineer for example. All that is stopping you is fear and lack of confidence. Why do you feel fear when you approach a girl? Why do you lack confidence when you approach a girl? Because of your negative self-image.

If your core belief was that you are a freaking badass king no matter what, you wouldn't have had those issues. This is why narcissists don't have issues with confidence or approaching girls. Not because they have exceptional social skills. They just feel like: "I am God and if you don't like me, there is something wrong with you, not me".

Edited October 12, 2024 by Something Funny

[Davino]

@Something Funny Quick question: How do you plan to focus on pick-up while in a stable relationship?

My advice would be to prioritize developing the skills necessary to sustain and nurture a romantic relationship through its ups and downs. These skills will prove invaluable in future relationships.

Learning the mechanics of attraction is a prerequisite for finding love, but it’s just as important to learn how to handle the daily dynamics of being with a partner. Attraction and relationship skills are distinct phases, and right now, you should focus on the latter. If your current relationship ends, then you can revisit attraction skills and approach future relationships with greater confidence and experience.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2024 by Davino

[Something Funny]

@Davino I think you misunderstood. I was arguing how pickup is unnecessary. Why are you asking me how to focus on pickup while in a relationship?

[Davino]

@Something Funny Thanks for answering the quick question. The rest still applies and asks you to focus on relationships skills while seeing the importance of pick-up but the necessity of postponing it for now.

[The Renaissance Man]

@Something Funny Thank you now I get your point better. Your main points were:

• No matter how many girls you approach, how successful you are with pickup, how much sex you have, you will still have the same low, conditional self-esteem and luck of self-love. It will never be enough. 
• There is no drug that will make you a great software engineer for example. All that is stopping you is fear and lack of confidence. So in other words, there's no need for pickup.

I actually agree with you on your first point, and on the fact that no drug can make you a great engineer. But I disagree on how you go about finding happiness (point 1) and getting good with girls (point 2).

Point 1: that's a matter of the whole pursuit of dating then, not pickup. The issue is when you become stuck in the endless rat race of never being satisfied with women, or money. Pickup is one of many ways of meeting women, and what drives you to meet them could be endless sex, or the pursuit of deep love. With making that point you're not actually critiquing the method.

Second point, as I also said, alcohol won't make you great at pickup. It will make you better, but not great, if you suck in the first place. A shy person will suck at public speaking. A shy person that has drank some alcohol (not wasted) will be better. A skilled person will be far better than both. Can we agree on that? Quite apparent. You can't claim that communication involves no skills involved, that's just false. So if you want to be great, and there are solid reason for that, and we're back to point 1, how would you go about doing that?

Second part of the second point: fear. Fear is a HUGE obstacle to overcome. Much harder than just sitting down for months to study engineering. Go tell a person with PTSD that he "just has to overcome his fear". Well, duh? Not saying it can't be done, but we have to acknowledge it's really hard. Also, experience is a great way to reduce fear and increase confidence.

Edited October 13, 2024 by The Renaissance Man