Is it really important and necessary to sleep with 20 girls?

[Rasheed]

The question: "Is it really important and necessary to sleep with 20 girls?" sounds gross, bizarre, and low-quality, yet let me explain the context first. Two years ago, at the age of 19, I learned dating and pickup from Leo, Mark Manson, and RSD Todd. Before that, I was literally beyond clueless and ignorant of both the inner and outer game. Leo's series "How to Get Laid" changed my life. After I carefully learned the theory and started implementing it, I met my first girlfriend—all thanks to learning and doing pickup. Our relationship was on and off, yet I wasn't worried because I extensively practiced the cold approach, approaching hundreds of girls while methodologically implementing the theory. After 2 years, I went on 10s of dates, approximately 30+ at this point, and slept with 3 girls in total. One of them is my current girlfriend, whom I met also through a cold approach. 

I love pickup; nevertheless, it takes time and energy. I am heavily focused on my life purpose, overall higher development, and what in this forum we call, self-actualized life—doing meditation, contemplation, reading, et cetera. And what I have discovered is that trying to date multiple women at the same time takes time; going out on an infield takes time; going on dates takes time, everything involved in a process of pickup and dating takes time. In my pickup evolution, I went from "going out for 3 hours and not approaching due to anxiety" to a point where if I see a cute girl passing me by randomly on a street, as I am going on my business, I can immediately approach, without any warm-up or anything. I wouldn't call myself "advanced" by any means, yet I am firmly in that intermediate stage. 

Being an intermediate and 21, should I simply date one girl—that will take time away from approaching and going on dates, which I will allocate to self-actualization work—or should I instead keep approaching and keep going on dates with a goal in mind to reach 20 "lays" (as PUAs would put it) because Leo in his series "How to Get Laid" said that in order to become a developed, attractive, high quality masculine man, it is necessary to sleep with 20 girls...that point makes sense to me, but at the same time, dating takes time, and I would like to allocate that time to mastering my chosen craft/life purpose/domain of mastery, and other self-actualization activities as well.

Also, the girl I am dating is really into me. We have amazing sex (thanks to Leo's video on having sex). And since I met my current girlfriend a couple months ago, I have been going out on infields and, for that matter, dates less often. I literally turned down girls who wanted to go out with me because in that week I already had great sex with my girlfriend, and I simply didn't have a motivation to, as I preferred to spend time meditating, doing deliberate practice, or other "self-actualization" related activity. Obviously, if I spent the time I had great sex with my girlfriend—entire days literally—and did pickup instead of that, I would have more dates, and perhaps lays at this point of course, because I would spend that time doing approaches. Honestly, I don't regret that by any means but still, to drive the point, I want to make home. 

My question is, and excuse me for my long and all over the place question: (Don't want to sound cocky, there are men 100x better at pickup than me) At the age of 21, after going from a complete beginner to intermediate in pick up (from kiss-less virgin with no dating experience and afraid to approach, to 3 lays, 10s of dates (including a plethora of instant dates, for example), and no problem approaching), what should I do? If I go into an exclusive relationship with my girlfriend, I will be cool with that, yet the problem with the foregoing is that this will freeze me at 3 lays, when Leo says, 20 lays is necessary. (Some Red Pill guys say 50, but I think that's too much; 20 is a good number).

What do you guys think? Learning pickup and dating changed my entire life for the better, transformed into a better, more developed, and more masculine man. Thus, it means a lot to me. I want to make this decision carefully, so I decided to ask the question on the forum.

[NoSelfSelf]

Lays is such a cringe word and what does a number has to do with you being more musculine/developed? thats a paradox.

[Rasheed]

5 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Lays is such a cringe word and what does a number has to do with you being more musculine/developed? thats a paradox.

“Lay” is a term all pick up coaches use including Todd, and I think and If I remember correctly, Leo does use it as well (I might be wrong on that point, not sure). And regarding numbers, Leo said it, red pill guys say it, and if you think about it, it makes sense

Edited October 10 by Rasheed

[NoSelfSelf]

1 minute ago, Rasheed said:

“Lay” is a term all pick up coaches use including Todd, and I think and If I remember correctly, Leo does use it as well (I might be wrong on that point, not sure). And regarding numbers, Leo said it, red pill guys say it, and if you think about it, it makes sense

I know what lay is its cringe.

No it doesnt make sense you are listening to leo and some red pill guy that's not masculine.Then women hold key to the level of who you are as a man.Meanwhile women sleep with losers all the time.

[Rasheed]

5 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

I know what lay is its cringe.

No it doesnt make sense you are listening to leo and some red pill guy that's not masculine.Then women hold key to the level of who you are as a man.Meanwhile women sleep with losers all the time.

Why is it cringe? 

[NoSelfSelf]

3 minutes ago, Rasheed said:

Why is it cringe? 

Because first of all its a word they are using like a cult,i mean they are cult and now you repeating it.Second thing is ,they make it all about sex and women, what next manipulative tactic im going to use should i "neg" her to oblivion and now you are programmed with it, evaluating your worth around sex and women.Its cringe because it signals all around the sleeziness(if thats the word) of it all..nothing masculine about it its just validating your ego.I mean do what you want i just see through it.

Edited October 10 by NoSelfSelf

[Rasheed]

Bro, come on, calling pick up cult…I won’t even debate you on that point because its utter nonsense.

Have you done pick up yourself? Or are you just talking as a spectator? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t to sound disrespectful, just asking.
Thanks for sharing your point of view by the way

Edited October 10 by Rasheed

[NoSelfSelf]

1 minute ago, Rasheed said:

Bro, come on, calling pick up cult…I won’t even debate you on that point because its utter nonsense.

Have you done pick up yourself? Or are you just talking as a spectator? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t to sound disrespectful, just asking.
Thanks for sharing your point of view by the way

Ofcourse its a cult everything about it is a cult it seems you cant spot a cult.It doesnt even have to be one since you have a cult mentality listen what you are saying some red pill guy,leo said this now i have to do it so i can become a pro, that's a cult mentality.You can spot a cult easily by seeing does they teach you to be you or they are teaching you to think like them.Lay is a word of a cult.

Yes i did pick up everytime i did it was: "this is not me wtf is this im using some theory of pick up instead of presenting myself for who i am" it was so obvious that its disengenius.

But im not againts approaching women just with pick up ideology as a whole.

[Rasheed]

The fact that you did “pick up” and thought that means you did not do it, and don’t understand what it is about. 

Also, since you call it a cult, it either means two things: 1). You don’t know what cult is. 2). You don’t know what pick ups. 
 

from your first response latter is evident, so from that point on, calling a cult something you don’t get is misguided

[NoSelfSelf]

1 minute ago, Rasheed said:

The fact that you did “pick up” and thought that means you did not do it, and don’t understand what it is about. 

Also, since you call it a cult, it either means two things: 1). You don’t know what cult is. 2). You don’t know what pick ups. 
 

from your first response latter is evident, so from that point on, calling a cult something you don’t get is misguided

I just told you what cult is and pick up is a skill of approaching and sleeping with women as soon as possible,which is done in manipulative way.Its about sex thats why you asked that queastion in thread evaluating your worth through "lays" thats sad to me.

[Sugarcoat]

Isn’t sex just a thing one does for either pleasure or to have kids? How would it make you a more high quality man? Sure it  could make you better in bed, but that could be gained with one girl too. Other than that I don’t see what it would do. 
 

edit: I see how sex can have other purpose too like deepening relationship, exploration whatever but I kept it simple here

Edited October 10 by Sugarcoat

[aurum]

@Rasheed I think the real question is how satisfied are you in your current relationship?

If you’re satisfied, keep doing that. There’s plenty of ways to grow through having a long-term relationship that are unique. You want experience in that area as well.

Edited October 10 by aurum

[Rasheed]

2 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

I just told you what cult is and pick up is a skill of approaching and sleeping with women as soon as possible,which is done in manipulative way.Its about sex thats why you asked that queastion in thread evaluating your worth through "lays" thats sad to me.

There is nothing in my post that says either I, Leo, Manson, Todd, or Red pill guys evaluate themselves by lay counts. That’s a flagrant misinterpretation 

[LifeEnjoyer]

@Rasheed I see two girls right now and I was straight up with them, “I don’t want a gf, I’m just trying to have more fun with girls.”

It does take some time which I don’t have much of as I have uni, work and hobbies to also manage but it’s been a lot of fun.

I also see monogamous relationships as egotistical, to be honest, “I WANT YOU AND ONLY I CAN HAVE YOU!”

Polyamorous is the way to go in my opinion

[NoSelfSelf]

3 minutes ago, Rasheed said:

There is nothing in my post that says either I, Leo, Manson, Todd, or Red pill guys evaluate themselves by lay counts. That’s a flagrant misinterpretation 

So saying that you need 20 body counts to be considered advanced is not evaluating yourself, i mean i dont know what to say...

[Keryo Koffa]

21 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

So saying that you need 20 body counts to be considered advanced is not evaluating yourself, i mean i dont know what to say...

According to my extensive research in human behavior, the concept of a "body count" serves as a collective currency utilized to regulate self-esteem among peers. This phenomenon is perceived as quite "objective" within specific male demographic subgroups of the species. It's somewhat confusing to observe this type of instinctive pattern within a species capable of higher cognition and extensive self-awareness and I've yet to find a suitable explanation.

[NoSelfSelf]

6 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

According to my extensive research in human behavior, the concept of a "body count" serves as a collective currency utilized to regulate self-esteem among peers. This phenomenon is perceived as quite "objective" within specific male demographic subgroups of the species. It's somewhat confusing to observe this type of instinctive pattern within a species capable of higher cognition and extensive self-awareness and I've yet to find a suitable explanation.

Only thing i know is those who brag about it has the lowest self esteem,or even meantions it as something important.

[Keryo Koffa]

31 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Only thing i know is those who brag about it has the lowest self esteem,or even meantions it as something important.

• 𝕊 = Shame (internal inadequacy)
• 𝕀 = Insistence (assertion of value as a response)
• 𝔹 = Bragging (outward compensation for insecurity)
• 𝕆 = Overcompensation (exaggeration of worth)
• 𝔽 = Fitting (desire to conform to societal standards)
• 𝕍ₑₓₜ = External value (social status, recognition)
• 𝕍ᵢₙₜ = Internal value (intrinsic self-worth)

These variables interact within a feedback loop that shapes self-worth (W). The equation of self-worth can be expressed as a combination of intrinsic and extrinsic factors, with the influence of shame and compensatory behaviors contributing to distortions.

𝕎 = (𝕍ᵢₙₜ + α𝕍ₑₓₜ) − (𝕊 + β𝕀 + γ𝔹 + δ𝕆) + ε𝔽

Breakdown of Terms:

• 𝕎 (Self-Worth) = Overall self-perception of value.
• 𝕍ᵢₙₜ (Intrinsic Value) = Core self-worth based on authentic internal qualities (e.g., values, integrity, emotional resilience).
• 𝕍ₑₓₜ = Value derived from social status, recognition, achievements (subject to social metrics).
  • α: The weight of external validation (higher if self-worth is overly dependent on social status).
• 𝕊 (Shame) = Internal sense of inadequacy or unworthiness.
• 𝕀 (Insistence) = Effort to assert or demand recognition of value, increasing as shame grows.
  • β: The degree to which insistence reduces or masks shame.
• 𝔹 (Bragging) = Expression of overinflated worth, driven by shame.
  • γ: The extent of distortion in self-worth due to bragging (can either inflate self-perception or reflect insecurity).
• 𝕆 (Overcompensation) = The degree to which an individual overstates their value to counteract shame.
  • δ: Amplifies the disconnection between intrinsic self-worth and the exaggerated projection of value.
• 𝔽 (Fitting) = The drive to conform to social standards or fit in. It can either elevate self-worth by enhancing social cohesion or lead to further disconnection from intrinsic value.
  • ε: Represents the influence of social conformity on the balance between external and internal self-worth.

Observations:

• High Shame (𝕊) increases the need for Insistence (𝕀), Bragging (𝔹), and Overcompensation (𝕆), which distorts self-worth by shifting the focus toward external validation.
• The balance between Intrinsic Value (𝕍ᵢₙₜ) and External Value (𝕍ₑₓₜ) determines the stability of self-worth. When external validation (𝕍ₑₓₜ) is overly weighted (high α), self-worth becomes fragile and more dependent on social metrics.
• The drive to Fit (𝔽) can either mitigate shame or exacerbate it, depending on whether it leads to genuine social connection or a superficial adherence to societal expectations.

Edited October 10 by Keryo Koffa

[NoSelfSelf]

2 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

• S = Shame (internal inadequacy)
• I = Insistence (assertion of value as a response)
• B = Bragging (outward compensation for insecurity)
• O = Overcompensation (exaggeration of worth)
• F = Fitting (desire to conform to societal standards)
• Vₑₓₜ = External value (social status, recognition)
• Vᵢₙₜ = Internal value (intrinsic self-worth)

These variables interact within a feedback loop that shapes self-worth (W). The equation of self-worth can be expressed as a combination of intrinsic and extrinsic factors, with the influence of shame and compensatory behaviors contributing to distortions.

W = (Vᵢₙₜ + αVₑₓₜ) − (S + βI + γB + δO) + εF

Breakdown of Terms:

• W (Self-Worth) = Overall self-perception of value.
• Vᵢₙₜ (Intrinsic Value) = Core self-worth based on authentic internal qualities (e.g., values, integrity, emotional resilience).
• Vₑₓₜ = Value derived from social status, recognition, achievements (subject to social metrics).
  • α: The weight of external validation (higher if self-worth is overly dependent on social status).
• S (Shame) = Internal sense of inadequacy or unworthiness.
• I (Insistence) = Effort to assert or demand recognition of value, increasing as shame grows.
  • β: The degree to which insistence reduces or masks shame.
• B (Bragging) = Expression of overinflated worth, driven by shame.
  • γ: The extent of distortion in self-worth due to bragging (can either inflate self-perception or reflect insecurity).
• O (Overcompensation) = The degree to which an individual overstates their value to counteract shame.
  • δ: Amplifies the disconnection between intrinsic self-worth and the exaggerated projection of value.
• F (Fitting) = The drive to conform to social standards or fit in. It can either elevate self-worth by enhancing social cohesion or lead to further disconnection from intrinsic value.
  • ε: Represents the influence of social conformity on the balance between external and internal self-worth.

Observations:

• High Shame (S) increases the need for Insistence (I), Bragging (B), and Overcompensation (O), which distorts self-worth by shifting the focus toward external validation.
• The balance between Intrinsic Value (Vᵢₙₜ) and External Value (Vₑₓₜ) determines the stability of self-worth. When external validation (Vₑₓₜ) is overly weighted (high α\alphaα), self-worth becomes fragile and more dependent on social metrics.
• The drive to Fit (F) can either mitigate shame or exacerbate it, depending on whether it leads to genuine social connection or a superficial adherence to societal expectations.

If you wrote this then your mind is next level 👍

[Rasheed]

1 hour ago, Keryo Koffa said:

• 𝕊 = Shame (internal inadequacy)
• 𝕀 = Insistence (assertion of value as a response)
• 𝔹 = Bragging (outward compensation for insecurity)
• 𝕆 = Overcompensation (exaggeration of worth)
• 𝔽 = Fitting (desire to conform to societal standards)
• 𝕍ₑₓₜ = External value (social status, recognition)
• 𝕍ᵢₙₜ = Internal value (intrinsic self-worth)

These variables interact within a feedback loop that shapes self-worth (W). The equation of self-worth can be expressed as a combination of intrinsic and extrinsic factors, with the influence of shame and compensatory behaviors contributing to distortions.

𝕎 = (𝕍ᵢₙₜ + α𝕍ₑₓₜ) − (𝕊 + β𝕀 + γ𝔹 + δ𝕆) + ε𝔽

Breakdown of Terms:

• 𝕎 (Self-Worth) = Overall self-perception of value.
• 𝕍ᵢₙₜ (Intrinsic Value) = Core self-worth based on authentic internal qualities (e.g., values, integrity, emotional resilience).
• 𝕍ₑₓₜ = Value derived from social status, recognition, achievements (subject to social metrics).
  • α: The weight of external validation (higher if self-worth is overly dependent on social status).
• 𝕊 (Shame) = Internal sense of inadequacy or unworthiness.
• 𝕀 (Insistence) = Effort to assert or demand recognition of value, increasing as shame grows.
  • β: The degree to which insistence reduces or masks shame.
• 𝔹 (Bragging) = Expression of overinflated worth, driven by shame.
  • γ: The extent of distortion in self-worth due to bragging (can either inflate self-perception or reflect insecurity).
• 𝕆 (Overcompensation) = The degree to which an individual overstates their value to counteract shame.
  • δ: Amplifies the disconnection between intrinsic self-worth and the exaggerated projection of value.
• 𝔽 (Fitting) = The drive to conform to social standards or fit in. It can either elevate self-worth by enhancing social cohesion or lead to further disconnection from intrinsic value.
  • ε: Represents the influence of social conformity on the balance between external and internal self-worth.

Observations:

• High Shame (𝕊) increases the need for Insistence (𝕀), Bragging (𝔹), and Overcompensation (𝕆), which distorts self-worth by shifting the focus toward external validation.
• The balance between Intrinsic Value (𝕍ᵢₙₜ) and External Value (𝕍ₑₓₜ) determines the stability of self-worth. When external validation (𝕍ₑₓₜ) is overly weighted (high α), self-worth becomes fragile and more dependent on social metrics.
• The drive to Fit (𝔽) can either mitigate shame or exacerbate it, depending on whether it leads to genuine social connection or a superficial adherence to societal expectations.

I haven’t read this but didn’t expect an answer like this 😂