Is this truth or validation? What do I do? Need serious help.

[ActualizedJohn]

(Would really appreciate a Leo response with this one too, it has been the biggest cause of my depression for years)

I was a virgin up until 3 months ago. I have done every other type of sexual act since I was 15, and many times for that matter. Im 23. I went all of my high school and college life not having sex. I don't need to go into all of the examples of as to why being a virgin was traumatic, because if your a guy as a virgin you understand. 

I thought all that I needed was to have sex with a decently attractive girl that I pulled and that I would be complete, almost like I would somewhat be finally a part of this "exclusive club", and it would fill that empty depressed self-image loathing inside of me.

I started getting pretty into self development over the past year or two. I understood what the implications of external validation were (Never being truly satisfied, wasting your life chasing a high that always fades away). However there was always an itch at the back of my mind wondering if those pick-up-artists were actually right, and that the "higher consciousness" teachers who taught that external validation was bad were actually just jealous, pissed of, or just wrong for any reason. I was open to both possibilities, so I came to a middle ground. I would try to lose my virginity to at least a decently attractive woman, and see what happens. If i was satisfied for the rest of my life, I could finally say that the pick-up-artists were right, and that the high consciousness/ anti-validation teachers were wrong. If I eventually become dissatisfied again and feel the need for more validation, then the pickup artists were wrong. Seemed like a super fair and objective experiment to me.

So ever since my last breakup a year ago (the girl was an "on paper" 10/10 looks wise but we still never had sex), I dedicated my life to not just getting better at pickup, but more learning and practicing everything there was to know about self love/self acceptance, and that I didn't NEED sex to be "whole and complete". I knew the reason I was bad at pickups and women was because there was too much importance placed on the fact of "NEEDING" to have sex, and this NEEDING caused a lot of pressure, and backfired on the "playing field" with me. I was so attached to needing it and it was such a serious thing that no girl wanted to have it with me because they sensed such a strong urgency, and it made me the opposite of a smooth talker because of the sheer amount of pressure. 

 

So I did personal development work for that year, taught myself I didn't need sex to be whole and complete (at least for a little) and becoming more smooth with women was a result of this, so this self development worked. So anyway, my current girlfriend comes along (4 months ago), and a month later she takes my virginity.

The initial feeling for around two months was that it WORKED. I was all like "damn, those sons of bitches were right (the pickup artists)." I rode that high hard af because I have been deserving of that shit for years now.

Recently that high wore off. Ive been thinking about my waisted college days. When I was in college I didn't LIVE there, but even if I did i doubt i would have pulled any women because of my mental state i previously spoke about.

 

My girlfriend fucked around a lot in college. I would have a lot of insecurity around that, and i guess she sparked it being upsetting for me. Here she was "better than me" because she had a college experience and slept around, and here I am, never wanting to have a college experience because I wanted to work on my business, lock in and make good health choices. And my decision made me sadder and more pissed off than ever. Made me feel like I could never go back to college, and never make all of that time up. So now I felt like not only did I now raise the bar AGAIN on myself after i said I would never raise the bar ever again and be "happy forever if I could just lose my virginity", but now I can never go back in time in college to make things right, and to make myself feel better. I was now empty again. Let me add this too, my blueprint for happiness from validation is not that tinder sex would work to make my happy, or that local bar hookup sex in my hometown would make me happy, but that maybe if I was in a college party setting with my friends that it might just do the trick to finally validate me. I could finally do what I missed out on, and fix the regret that was ruining my life. I dont even want to move to a city and do hookups there, it seems like this college shit could be the only thing that helps me.

heres were it gets interesting.

 

Anyways I got very very very pissed about this last night when I was on the phone with my girlfriend. I finally said to myself "fuck this, Im done hiding from all of these experiences my girlfriend had in college, the self loathing and jealousy I experience from never having these experiences, the depression this has caused me to spiral into my entire life. I'm gonna run now directly AT at all of my fears and these feelings now, instead of AWAY from them. I deserve this pain and I am saying 'fuck this' and facing this head on NOW."

I then told my girlfriend that I wanted to hear about every sexual experience she had in college, IN DETAIL. She was apprehensive at first, but when I told her why I wanted to hear them, she agreed. I then listened for maybe a little over an hour. And there was some really bad shit in those stories, let me tell you. Those of you who have/have ever had a girlfirend who you love, i'm sure you wouldn't listen to the shit that I heard come out of her mouth for a million dollars.

This was NOT a sexual thing for me, or a kink whatsoever. The whole time I was like shaking from adrenaline as I was hearing everything that she had done in crazy detail, all of the acts and all of the LITTERAL positions. It was this feeling of adrenaline that ive never had before, but it was not sexual. 

I was hearing about all the rough sex shit she was into. I then started to get the idea that maybe I could make myself feel better if i did that sort of rough sex stuff to her too, because at this point if feeling even more like a pussy for fucking her in a more vanilla way.

I then pretty much said that I have a fear of her cheating on me, and it would make it better if she could just get with another dude that she chose, so that I would get the feeling of "okay the cheating is out of the way, she already slept with another guy, and now that that barrier is broken I don't have to be afraid of her cheating anymore since it already happened".

I want to know what the truth here is to my story. Am I right to feel valid? Would you guys break up with your girl if you were me and get be dedicated to the field again, to maybe sleep with more women because true satisfaction can be achieved through pickup? Or is it time that I finally surrender, except that that validation void can never be permanently filled ever, and that I should just focus more on spirituality like meditation and building my business, and other forms of self development? (I love my girlfriend by the way and she is the greatest, and I would never cheat on her.)

Also why do I not have this problem with friends, that I need more friends to be whole and complete? I would say that the reason I dont feel this way with friends is because I always had many guy friends and enough positive experiences that I feel like I "conquered" that area in my life, which would mean for sex, all I need to do is "conquer" that area of my life and have more sex and it would work? or is it only just that I was taught when I was young to put an extreme importance on specifically sex with women for whatever reason?

Spirituality and self development is my passion. I love doing it for free, no strings attached. If someone had asked me before "do you LIKE picking up girls?" I wouldn't have understood their question. I would have been like "yes because it gives me that sense of validation and fills that empty feeling that Ive wanted to be filled for the past decade, so i do in fact like it". However, now that I really understand what the question is asking, and if i actually ENJOY pickup, I would tell you this:

If this empty feeling inside of me could eventually be filled (Through any means, not just pickup) and I felt like I NEVER had to do pickup ever again, I would 100% NEVER do that shit ever again, because I hate it. All of the wasted time when I could have been doing shit I enjoyed. All the times I could have woken up feeling refreshed and good in the morning, but instead I woke up hungover af late as shit in the afternoon because I was attempting pickup at a bar. Pickup always felt like such a CHORE to me, such a bandaid that I had to quickly rip off so I could just get it over with and move up the rest of the latter, and not have to deal with ever again. All I ever wanted to do was just finally feel as whole and complete, and as vaild as anyone else. I never even really cared about the horniness, or the physical act of having sex. I just wanted the pain to be over with. But at the same time, there is such as strong pull for me to get back into the pickup community and just try because im young still and maybe it will be everything I always hoped for, that finally my problems will be solved and I wont have to live for regret for the rest of my life, that even if you all commented and told me that external validation was wrong and bad that I wouldn't believe you. I just need advice. I feel like hearing people say that external validation is wrong and bad doesn't even help me. I am looking for an EXPERIENCE of long lasting whole and completeness, and I can't figure out how to have that experience. More pickup? Maybe increase my serotonin through healthy activities? chase enlightenment? I guess what Im asking is what is the objective way to have that whole and complete feeling? Maybe it should be a mix of both options, work on myself but continue to try to fuck even though its just a chore for me at this point and I hate it?

Edited October 9 by ActualizedJohn
Added third paragraph from the bottom

[Spiritual Warfare]

Both approaches are necessary because balance is key. This includes everything, even indulging in casual encounters with a hoe. Achieving wholeness is impossible, and I believe you should spend one month exploring the futility of that pursuit. Then, dedicate the following month to indulging in ego-driven pleasures. Establish routines, and don't worry about right or wrong, just follow your feelings. In the end, none of it really matters.

 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

By breaking out of your current feminine reality of thinking simply put.You are asking a queastion of how to fix something that has millions "problems" in it.

[ActualizedJohn]

@NoSelfSelf I dont understand

[NoSelfSelf]

10 minutes ago, ActualizedJohn said:

@NoSelfSelf I dont understand

Your whole reality that you created by the experiences and societies standards is now reality you are operating in, so you need to break out of it to break out of it you must become less feminine...

[ActualizedJohn]

@NoSelfSelf how does one do that

[NoSelfSelf]

6 minutes ago, ActualizedJohn said:

@NoSelfSelf how does one do that

Well by being student of the game, learning yourself beyond the false interpretations of the reality thats created.Its like you asking me to explain you whole college of information in one post.

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S93-iwxGmI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iat0URhKUOw

https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-it-s-not-too-late-learn-seduction-and-reap-benefits

https://www.girlschase.com/content/4-key-steps-improve-quickly-and-not-burn-yourself-out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUH2XzXFZMs

 

Edited October 9 by Raze

[Buck Edwards]

I detect a lot of insecurities in your post. You seem to be battling with low self esteem. So first you have to cultivate that. Be your authentic self. That will reward you the most. You worry too much about social expectations. You are already feeding into social validation.

You simply did not create a loving relationship. A loving relationship is very secure minus any cheating thoughts. The thought that you wanted your girlfriend to cheat shows deep buried insecurities about your own self. 

If you get your own self out of your way, you won't engage self sabotage behaviors. 

 

Edited October 10 by Buck Edwards

[mr_engineer]

8 hours ago, ActualizedJohn said:

I then pretty much said that I have a fear of her cheating on me, and it would make it better if she could just get with another dude that she chose, so that I would get the feeling of "okay the cheating is out of the way, she already slept with another guy, and now that that barrier is broken I don't have to be afraid of her cheating anymore since it already happened".

I want to know what the truth here is to my story. Am I right to feel valid? Would you guys break up with your girl if you were me and get be dedicated to the field again, to maybe sleep with more women because true satisfaction can be achieved through pickup? Or is it time that I finally surrender, except that that validation void can never be permanently filled ever, and that I should just focus more on spirituality like meditation and building my business, and other forms of self development? (I love my girlfriend by the way and she is the greatest, and I would never cheat on her.)

Also why do I not have this problem with friends, that I need more friends to be whole and complete? I would say that the reason I dont feel this way with friends is because I always had many guy friends and enough positive experiences that I feel like I "conquered" that area in my life, which would mean for sex, all I need to do is "conquer" that area of my life and have more sex and it would work? or is it only just that I was taught when I was young to put an extreme importance on specifically sex with women for whatever reason?

Spirituality and self development is my passion. I love doing it for free, no strings attached. If someone had asked me before "do you LIKE picking up girls?" I wouldn't have understood their question. I would have been like "yes because it gives me that sense of validation and fills that empty feeling that Ive wanted to be filled for the past decade, so i do in fact like it". However, now that I really understand what the question is asking, and if i actually ENJOY pickup, I would tell you this:

If this empty feeling inside of me could eventually be filled (Through any means, not just pickup) and I felt like I NEVER had to do pickup ever again, I would 100% NEVER do that shit ever again, because I hate it. All of the wasted time when I could have been doing shit I enjoyed. All the times I could have woken up feeling refreshed and good in the morning, but instead I woke up hungover af late as shit in the afternoon because I was attempting pickup at a bar. Pickup always felt like such a CHORE to me, such a bandaid that I had to quickly rip off so I could just get it over with and move up the rest of the latter, and not have to deal with ever again. All I ever wanted to do was just finally feel as whole and complete, and as vaild as anyone else. I never even really cared about the horniness, or the physical act of having sex. I just wanted the pain to be over with. But at the same time, there is such as strong pull for me to get back into the pickup community and just try because im young still and maybe it will be everything I always hoped for, that finally my problems will be solved and I wont have to live for regret for the rest of my life, that even if you all commented and told me that external validation was wrong and bad that I wouldn't believe you. I just need advice. I feel like hearing people say that external validation is wrong and bad doesn't even help me. I am looking for an EXPERIENCE of long lasting whole and completeness, and I can't figure out how to have that experience. More pickup? Maybe increase my serotonin through healthy activities? chase enlightenment? I guess what Im asking is what is the objective way to have that whole and complete feeling? Maybe it should be a mix of both options, work on myself but continue to try to fuck even though its just a chore for me at this point and I hate it?

Before this point, your entire post was fine. You did all the right things.

From this point on, though, you started to fuck up. You started to convince yourself that she's going to cheat, and you let a good girl go. 

About your emptiness (which is the real issue, not sex), what you're wanting is an attachment-relationship. This is possible only with a woman, because it is a sexual relationship. 

Now, here's the tricky part - why didn't it work in your relationship last time? Here's why - it's because you made sex the goal. In a romantic-relationship, sex is always on the table, because it is a sexual relationship. But, what you should be looking for, is love. 

So, if I were in your position, here's the enquiry I would commit myself to - what is love? Spend as long as it takes to truly figure this out. It's not going to be easy, because there is a lot of conflicting conditioning around 'love'. But, once you figure this out, the next step is to visualize the relationship you want, based on what you want out of it and your understanding of relationships. Then you date! 

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

So, if I were in your position, here's the enquiry I would commit myself to - what is love? Spend as long as it takes to truly figure this out. It's not going to be easy, because there is a lot of conflicting conditioning around 'love'. But, once you figure this out, the next step is to visualize the relationship you want, based on what you want out of it and your understanding of relationships. Then you date! 

I don't think he will figure out what love is until and unless he actually experiences love. Love is to be experienced, in fact to be experienced deeply, not something to be thought. 

[mr_engineer]

9 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

I don't think he will figure out what love is until and unless he actually experiences love. Love is to be experienced, in fact to be experienced deeply, not something to be thought. 

I asked the 'what is love?' question for 10 years straight before I actually experienced it. You really need to be looking for the answer in order to then be able to integrate it into relationships when you do experience it! 

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

I asked the 'what is love?' question for 10 years straight before I actually experienced it. You really need to be looking for the answer in order to then be able to integrate it into relationships when you do experience it! 

But when you experience love, what is left to integrate? 

[mr_engineer]

Just now, Buck Edwards said:

But when you experience love, what is left to integrate? 

If you haven't experienced it yet, it absolutely is the ultimate mountain-top to climb. Worth any amount of years of your life to dedicate to. 

Once you experience it, though, that's still just a theoretical answer to the issue of emptiness. Objective, because it's based on experience, but still theoretical. Then, the real work begins! To figure out how to bring in and keep such individuals in your life long-term. That is its own struggle! That's what I'm focusing on for the past 5 years. 

The harsh reality is that the 'toxic individuals' who are doing toxic shit, have a warped understanding of what 'love' is. Now, to have loving individuals in your life, you have to rewrite the story of what 'love' is in your relationships, you have to integrate this understanding into the narrative of your relationships.

This starts by teaching others what 'love' is, and seeing their bottlenecks when it comes to waking up to it, on the one hand. And, on the other hand, looking at your own problematic patterns (because just understanding what 'love' is doesn't automatically make you a loving person in practice, that is its own struggle) and improving on those. This will bring you out of stuck-situations in relationships and you will start to find ways to meet, bring in and keep individuals who are genuinely loving. That is the long-term answer to the issue of emptiness. 

[Buck Edwards]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

If you haven't experienced it yet, it absolutely is the ultimate mountain-top to climb. Worth any amount of years of your life to dedicate to. 

Once you experience it, though, that's still just a theoretical answer to the issue of emptiness. Objective, because it's based on experience, but still theoretical. Then, the real work begins! To figure out how to bring in and keep such individuals in your life long-term. That is its own struggle! That's what I'm focusing on for the past 5 years. 

The harsh reality is that the 'toxic individuals' who are doing toxic shit, have a warped understanding of what 'love' is. Now, to have loving individuals in your life, you have to rewrite the story of what 'love' is in your relationships, you have to integrate this understanding into the narrative of your relationships.

This starts by teaching others what 'love' is, and seeing their bottlenecks when it comes to waking up to it, on the one hand. And, on the other hand, looking at your own problematic patterns (because just understanding what 'love' is doesn't automatically make you a loving person in practice, that is its own struggle) and improving on those. This will bring you out of stuck-situations in relationships and you will start to find ways to meet, bring in and keep individuals who are genuinely loving. That is the long-term answer to the issue of emptiness. 

I mean you're talking about attracting love, yea I get you. But sometimes love transforms toxic individuals. 

And sometimes they're toxic just because of a lack of love. 

 

[ActualizedJohn]

@Buck Edwards My question is, how?