Why is Leo so critical of philosophers?

[Some dude on the net]

I just finished "The World as Will and Representation" Volume 2 by Schopenhauer. What amazes me is that "the Will" in Schopenhauer’s philosophy is actually the default mode network of the reptilian brain. That part of the brain that only tells you two things: survive and reproduce, it basicly primordial programming that only can be undone at Turquoise(maybe). Schopenhauer was so smart he basically predicted the existence of quantum physics back in 1840, lol. Schrödinger and Einstein were both heavily influenced by him. I’m not defending Schopenhauer in any way, but Leo’s video on philosophy is really misleading. It treats all of philosophy as garbage, and I didn’t like that he completely ignored the OGs of philosophy like Sartre, Schopenhauer, Kafka, and Camus. That video was definitely Leo's Green and orange tendencies in Spiral Dynamics coming through."Only I discovered the deepest levels of Truth". I'm not judging, just stating what I saw. Sartre literally has the best "game" I’ve ever seen. "Even though he was ugly and short, he seduced the beauties from the palace into the deepest excesses of passion." "Existence precedes essence" - Jean Paul Sartre. Sartre existentialism is on par with Buddhism in my opinion as a way to live your life.
Also, Sartre was solid "yellow" in Spiral Dynamics. "Like all dreamers, I mistook disenchantment for truth." Schopenhauer is another interesting case. He tried to live by Buddha's teachings, which he deeply admired, but remained stuck in suffering until his death. Because Schopenhauer remained stuck at Green/Yellow. Also, Schopenhauer answers some of the questions from that philosophy episode. "Why do we have something rather than nothing? Because of illusion." "Why does anything exist? Because of illusion." If we didn’t have an ego, nothing would exist or everything would, lol.
By the way, the Spiral Dynamics series is a blessing from God. I’ve known about it for around 8 years, but now I can literally see through people. Like, I can read anything and anyone. So, thank you, Leo, for making that 12 hour series it was amazing! BTW, where is the episode about Turquoise? 

[Ulax]

@Some dude on the net For me, a lot of western philosopher's writings about sufferings are completely ignorant of spirituality. Understandably so, but still it means a lot of their work lack any of the benefits of spiritual insights about the nature of reality and also human's ability to transcend suffering. And those insights are very powerful, and imo provide a very different view on what it is to be human. So, when i read a western philosopher's view on how to live, often I just think, 'Well, if you were more aware of spirituality, your argument would be markedly different', so i don't feel so inclined to read them in more depth.

Instead, i think it would be far more useful to read the works of someone with a deep understanding of spirituality. Leo does recommend some western philosophers like Spinoza who have a level of spiritual understanding too. And also study western philosophy in the fields of things like political philosophy. I'd agree with leo on that too.

That said, I'm aware that this critique only touches on certain aspects of the writings of western philosophers. 

59 minutes ago, Some dude on the net said:

Also, Sartre was solid "yellow" in Spiral Dynamics. "Like all dreamers, I mistook disenchantment for truth."

How does this provide evidence of Sartre being yellow? Why do you think he was yellow?

Quote

Schopenhauer is another interesting case. He tried to live by Buddha's teachings, which he deeply admired, but remained stuck in suffering until his death.

From what I understand, Schopenhauer had no enduring meditation practice. And I don't think you can live by Buddha's teachings without a consistent meditation practice. 

Edited October 9 by Ulax

[Hojo]

@Some dude on the net Because you cant say you are the only thing that exists and say someone is smarter or higher than you.

[AtmanIsBrahman]

Schopenhauer's idea of will is more about referring to the universe as one giant will, or consciousness (to connect it with Leo's teachings)

Leo's point in the philosophy video is that you need to find out what is true yourself. If you think Sartre was a really cool guy, that doesn't have anything to do with finding out what is true. It just makes you more likely to believe his ideas without any real reason.

4 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

BTW, where is the episode about Turquoise? 

Look up "spiral dynamics turquoise" on youtube. The inventors of spiral dynamics had him take it down, but it's still there on another channel.

[Some dude on the net]

@Ulax This tells me you didn't read Sartre. 

Here are some key characteristics of Jean-Paul Sartre that align with the "yellow" level in Spiral Dynamics:

1. Existential Responsibility: Sartre emphasized individual responsibility in shaping one’s existence, recognizing that humans have the freedom to create meaning in a world without inherent purpose. This aligns with the "yellow" value of self-awareness and personal responsibility.

2. Systems Thinking: Sartre’s philosophy considers the complexity of human relationships and societal structures. His analysis of how individuals interact with social systems, such as in Being and Nothingness, reflects the systems-oriented thinking typical of "yellow."

3. Non-Dogmatic Thinking: Sartre rejected absolute truths and ideologies, focusing instead on the dynamic, evolving nature of existence. This open-mindedness and rejection of rigid thinking correspond to "yellow's" adaptive, flexible approach to understanding the world. This is why I reject some of Leo's episodes, because at yellow you realise that every perspective is just that, a perspective. And no perspective is universally applicable. 

4. Focus on Freedom and Authenticity: Sartre’s emphasis on living authentically and embracing personal freedom aligns with the self-actualizing aspect of the "yellow" level, which values autonomy, self-expression, and authenticity without the constraints of societal norms or group pressures.

5. Integration of Paradoxes: Sartre was comfortable with the contradictions inherent in life, such as the tension between freedom and responsibility, individualism and interconnectedness. This capacity to integrate complexity is characteristic of the "yellow" stage, which seeks to embrace rather than resolve paradoxes.

Sartre’s philosophical emphasis on autonomy, self-awareness, and the complex interaction between individuals and society makes him an excellent fit for the "yellow" level in Spiral Dynamics. Also Sartre used language as I've never seen before. It's really beautiful. And as for Schopenhauer yes you describe Schopenhauer philosophy as Joseph Campbell right here. But that's the thing is just another perspective.

 

And if Joseph Campbell praises Schopenhauer I feel like it's a mistake to judge him. For me Yellow feels exactly like the Ego softening you get from MDMA. (I've never tried it again in the last 3 years). Like you can talk about anything, no skeletons in the closed, no fear and judgment. I'm stuck between green and yellow. Sometimes I'm fearless and I have no judgment and then I get a ego backlash that puts me again in green. Like feeling fear about talking the real things that happen in society and judging people. Anyway I feel like it's a good thing I have them. Baby steps towards higher consciousness. 

[Some dude on the net]

@Hojo Who said that? That's sounds like Solipsism. 

[Some dude on the net]

@AtmanIsBrahman please watch this. You misunderstood Sartre. https://youtu.be/ghoVwAbbVno?si=_ZCeHnjHfTq4SQXS

[Hojo]

@Some dude on the net leo has said he's a solipsist so it fits.

[Ulax]

8 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

@Ulax This tells me you didn't read Sartre. 

Here are some key characteristics of Jean-Paul Sartre that align with the "yellow" level in Spiral Dynamics:

1. Existential Responsibility: Sartre emphasized individual responsibility in shaping one’s existence, recognizing that humans have the freedom to create meaning in a world without inherent purpose. This aligns with the "yellow" value of self-awareness and personal responsibility.

Imo, that's orange.

8 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

4. Focus on Freedom and Authenticity: Sartre’s emphasis on living authentically and embracing personal freedom aligns with the self-actualizing aspect of the "yellow" level, which values autonomy, self-expression, and authenticity without the constraints of societal norms or group pressures.

Imo, that's green/ orange

8 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

2. Systems Thinking: Sartre’s philosophy considers the complexity of human relationships and societal structures. His analysis of how individuals interact with social systems, such as in Being and Nothingness, reflects the systems-oriented thinking typical of "yellow."

3. Non-Dogmatic Thinking: Sartre rejected absolute truths and ideologies, focusing instead on the dynamic, evolving nature of existence. This open-mindedness and rejection of rigid thinking correspond to "yellow's" adaptive, flexible approach to understanding the world. This is why I reject some of Leo's episodes, because at yellow you realise that every perspective is just that, a perspective. And no perspective is universally applicable. 

5. Integration of Paradoxes: Sartre was comfortable with the contradictions inherent in life, such as the tension between freedom and responsibility, individualism and interconnectedness. This capacity to integrate complexity is characteristic of the "yellow" stage, which seeks to embrace rather than resolve paradoxes.

These are yellow imo. Though, would like to see more evidence on 2.

8 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

And if Joseph Campbell praises Schopenhauer I feel like it's a mistake to judge him. 

Just because a trusted figure praises an aspect of another's work doesn't mean that others work is without limitation.

[Some dude on the net]

You're wrong. Sartre It's not orange, it's yellow. Because Sartre idea of personal responsibility doesn't mean to make 1 million dollars. Sartre idea of personal responsibility mean that life has no inherent meaning, and the meaning of our lives lies in each action we take on a daily basis. Sartre gives the answer to Nietzsche's Nihilism which itself was green. So a response that corects green it's not orange. People who didn't read a single book on Sartre or Schopenhauer know better, people love Ad-Hominem. Everyones work has limitation, only a megalomaniac would think otherwise. It's so easy to judge people who lived 100-200 years ago because we have the net. It's so easy to trick ourselves into thinking we are smarter than some of the sharpest minds in history. The orange and green talks form you :)), "That's orange" every accusation is a confession. Someone who would be yellow would appreciate the work, not think it's to smart to learn anything from it. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Before anything: What makes a good Philosopher? What Qualities we are looking for? Or What Bias we have? Are we Bias towards Truth? 

[Some dude on the net]

@Rafael Thundercat @Rafael Thundercat @Rafael ThundercatThundercat(sry for the 3 ping the forum it's acting weird from a phone). 

I'm sick and tired of people constantly pushing the idea of "truth." The values that truly matter in a philosopher or thinker, to me, are the advancement of humanity’s culture and the reduction of suffering. What truly counts? 1% of people to bliss out in some non-dual state while the world burns?Or everyone to go in that direction? I've met countless so-called "enlightened" hipsters who know nothing about the real world, yet claim to be selfless while indulging in drugs and hedonistic lifestyles. There minds are a melange of purple, blue and green. Until we achieve world peace, eradicate famine, and cure mental and physical illnesses, we’re fooling ourselves if we think we seek truth. What we really want is happiness and peace, but mostly for ourselves. Even Osho fell into this trap. As Leo said, enlightenment is not a magic pill.

Take Alan Watts, for example supposedly enlightened, yet he was an alcoholic who abused his wives. I want happiness and peace for everyone, not just for a privileged few. I've met too many people who preach care and compassion, but in reality, only care about their own political parties or personal agendas, while judging others. This is the hypocrisy of the so called "green" mindset. Every time someone loses an argument, they conveniently bring up "truth" as if it's the ultimate trump card. But what good is "truth" when 2 billion people live in poverty and die from easily curable diseases?

"Truth" is a useless word because there is no absolute truth that humans can fully understand, maybe 1% of it, at best. We're too limited to grasp the laws of the universe. Anyone claiming they've found "the absolute truth" is lying, because truth is just a perspective, not a fact. Whether it’s the perspective of Buddha, Jesus, Rumi, or Mohammed, it’s still just that a perspective. I learned this from Carl Jung, though many on this forum would dismiss his work because they claim "it's not true spiritual work." At the yellow stage, you realize that every perspective is just that, a perspective. And each one has validity and value, even that of a homeless person.

I can't help but laugh when I see people dismissing some of history's sharpest minds, as though their work isn’t even worth considering. That’s the pinnacle of spiritual megalomania. Some people think they're smarter than Sartre or Schopenhauer just because they've had 50 trips on acid or shrooms. As Sadhguru said, "The biggest disease on the planet is that people want to be special. But being special for them doesn't mean blossoming into their most wonderful form, it means being above somebody else." Even Leo is guilty of this (as are most people). In one of his philosophy episodes, he positioned himself as light-years ahead of anyone in the last 6,000 years of philosophical thought. It's just spiritual megalomania. Though, to his credit, he did address some of this in his video about the psychology of being wrong. This is why outside people think actualized.org is a cult. Because no one challenges Leo's frame. "Looks at what you are left with, men who are nothing but afraid of you. " The Wife of Saddam Hussein confronting him after he killed her brother. We need healthy disagreements in order to grow.

[Hojo]

@Some dude on the net I found the truth there is a hidden portal behind your head.

[PolyPeter]

On 10/10/2024 at 4:52 AM, Some dude on the net said:

Sartre rejected absolute truths and ideologies,

Hey. I am just starting to learn about this Sastre dude. 

And I am struggling to understand how this is not itself an absolute truth, let me explain my observation.
The absolute, as an idea, can be questioned, and it can lead to at least the following

1: There is an absolute.

2: There is not an absolute.

If 1 is the case, then you have access to this absolute, and at least one way to verify it.

If 2 is the case, then you are already at the absolute. Because saying that There cannot be an absolute, is itself an absolute!!!!!!!

In my experience, it is always "safer" to deny the absolute in favor of relativism. Because you can never know!!! what can you possibly understand a as tiny human being...?? probably not much...

On the other hand, if you as a human, manage to expand your consciousness and become infinite, then it is absolutely obvious that there is an absolute. Formless. Cosmic. 

I don't think anyone that "rejected absolute truths and ideologies" would ever be openminded enough to understand what Truth entails. 

I don't think Sastre or Schopenhauer have any idea of what a psychedelic insight like the ones Leo talks about might look like.

It seems like old philosophers like these, cannot come close to the depth of a true Awakening into the nature of reality. 

[PolyPeter]

10 minutes ago, Some dude on the net said:

I'm sick and tired of people constantly pushing the idea of "truth."

In the long run, this only means you will be further and further away from truth. 
I think that you don't fully grasp what truth means.
Do you mind sharing why it is not the most important thing? (it is not a thing)

[Some dude on the net]

@Hojo You love Ad-Hominem. You think you're soo selfless and woke, just like the rest of the hippies I've met. Anyone who doesn't care about what is happening in the world right now, but claims he is searching for truth, is nothing more that just a Green Spiritual Ego. "Peace just for me, bliss just for me, I'm the selfless of then all, and I care only for truth". Your truth is nothing more that spiritual narcissism and feelings more selfless than other. Joy just for you, not  helping to reduce suffering in the world. You think you so woke because you write "truth" 5 times in 3 sentences. People who think the teachings of Sartre, Schopenhauer, Jung, Nietzsche and Camus are beneath them, just pump there Ego to feel superior. Sartre, Schopenhauer, Jung, Nietzsche and Camus saved the lives of millions of people from suicide and doubt. This is why people who think they are above them miss the essence completely. People who are tripping on Acid yet the have done jack shit for society are judging people who saved millions of lives and reduce suffering for hundreds of millions. This is just green bs. 

[Hojo]

@Some dude on the net you are doing that to me. You are in stage green. What the fuck does 15 philosophers have to do with my one sentence.

Edited October 11 by Hojo

[Some dude on the net]

• P. S. That msj for @PolyPeter I don't give a fuck where I'm bro, I don't even care if I live or die. I've lived with 2 undiagnosed chronic illnesses for 25 respectability 26 years that cracked my soul. (I'm 26). Ignore the link, I can't edit msj from the phone xd. I got banned from my pc ip because I've used a vpn 2 years ago and I forgot I was using it.