Sensemaking Crisis (actually, everything crisis)

[Ayham]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You can do it in your spare time. I was doing philosophy throughout schooling and in the evenings after work on my business.

ease, got it.

[Ayham]

thank you people for responding.
I am still in the sense making crisis but at least it isn't spreading to my normal day to day life (for now).

I would still appreciate responses regarding sense making and how to come to good ontological and epistemological conclusions.

also fun fact my name is pronounced as ayhem not ayham. 

[Salvijus]

7 minutes ago, Ayham said:

Regarding the questions, fine, you have a point, they are useless, but they do bug me a lot lol.

Lol

7 minutes ago, Ayham said:

my heart is a coward, it refuses to talk, been trying to listen to it, no use

"what do I truly want?" every heart will yield to this question if one sits with it conciously. No one is an exception. 

 

[Salvijus]

15 minutes ago, Ayham said:

I would still appreciate responses regarding sense making and how to come to good ontological and epistemological conclusions.

Questions like that are like running on a hamster wheel. It doesn't lead to anything, nor is there an answer that would settle all the questions. Every answer just rises more questions. Mind is eternally confused by its very nature. 

Edited October 10 by Salvijus

[Thought Art]

@Ayham You are ambitious which is a good trait to have. I can understand the frustration of wanting to achieve more. However, it’s important to go at a realistic pace and not put undue or unrealistic pressure and expectations on yourself. Listen to the advice Leo is providing here. You are on the right path. 
 

I’ve had many of these moment similar to you. I didn’t have Leo at your age and my confusion was very deep. 
 

Building a foundation for your life is a deep joy and gift. Enjoy the process. 

Edited October 10 by Thought Art

[LifeEnjoyer]

Hey,

I’m only a couple years older than you and you seem to be doing much fine. Keep moving. When I was at your age all I wanted to do was fuck LOL. So learning game (social skills basically) and what not has improved my life 5x-10x (maybe even some psychs here and there for “spirituality”’s sake (I just wanted to get high as fuck,) but that’s not necessary, as I am taking a break from them now.)

I don’t know, I still have hard days too and recently taking on my life purpose has been quite the challenge. 

Anyways, just my two cents. Leo of course has some great points as do others.

Have a nice one!

[Lyubov]

I'm going through something similar, although I would use different wording. 

I'm in the process of rebuilding my life. And this has many facets to it, health, money, passion, vocation, women, family, inner child work, dreams. you know we have all these things to juggle in your life. Money is a big part of mine since my income has dried up. I want to create my YouTube channel and build my social media and earn money online. I need skills and to create great videos for this. On top of that I have bills in the meantime. I can tell you, I know it sometimes seems like we are in a maze, or there are 4 walls around us, but there's always a way out.

I think the most important thing to believe in though is yourself

1. Do you believe you are good enough?

2. Do you believe you are lovable?

3. Do you believe you can cope and survive, really thrive? 

Most importantly, do you believe you are whole and one? Not to get airy fairy but do you nurture your devine essence daily? It's simple, really love yourself and believe that you are worthy and whole. I think this is the core most belief, if you are to believe anything. Nurture this belief. Do so by being honest. I think then from there, really split your life up into simple tasks.

What areas of your life do you need to focus on? Just break it down into 2-3 things. Then make a list of tasks / habits that are most important for each and do them, be honest by prioritizing them and not doing stuff which goes against them like getting drunk every night.  

Lastly do self reflection weekly, check in once a week how the week went and if you're headed in the right direction. 

I'm doing this above and slowly my clarity is returning. It's so easy to just give all your qi and wellness away by having a very broad focus and overloading your belief system with tons of shit. strip your spirituality down. no need to read philosophy. Go simple.

Taoism I found is the most effective school of thought for just stripping shit down and living a healthy and fulfilling day to day life. Look into Wu Wei. Focus on you! 

Edited October 10 by Lyubov

[Jirh]

Well, have you considered that maybe you, right now, in the middle of what seems and surely feels like a crisis, are actually the most sane, right, and least deluded of all? Like, at least shouldn't that be the case given your intentions and sincerity and efforts? It's only fair.

I mean maybe nobody really knows anything, and we're all just big pretenders, though admittedly some with bigger mouths than others. Maybe this state of seeming confusion that you're in, is what any honest person should be in. Well, let me tell you, that many people have been there. And as it turns out, it's just a phase, and about time until you come out from the other side. So don't worry or fret about it.

Maybe it's not required to know. Like maybe all you need to do right now is to drop the desire to "know" and learn to live in peace and harmony with uncertainty, as if you even know what "knowledge" is or if it even exists. Maybe knowledge is the biggest delusion of all.

And hey, maybe it's okay to live without knowing every little thing, or let's be extreme and say maybe it's perfectly okay to live without really "knowing" anything at all. Forget about this pretender species (homo sapiens) and look at everything else. Does a tree "know" anything? Does an ant "know" anything?

I would go directly at the head of the snake and question knowledge itself. What is it? Like really what is it on the deepest existential level? Forget all that you have learnt, and start from scratch. The answer and cure is there.

You can do it. Good luck!

Edited October 10 by Jirh

[Ayham]

8 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Ayham You are ambitious which is a good trait to have. I can understand the frustration of wanting to achieve more. However, it’s important to go at a realistic pace and not put undue or unrealistic pressure and expectations on yourself. Listen to the advice Leo is providing here. You are on the right path. 
 

I’ve had many of these moment similar to you. I didn’t have Leo at your age and my confusion was very deep. 
 

Building a foundation for your life is a deep joy and gift. Enjoy the process. 

Maybe, I will try to balance it out.
 

 

7 hours ago, LifeEnjoyer said:

Hey,

I’m only a couple years older than you and you seem to be doing much fine. Keep moving. When I was at your age all I wanted to do was fuck LOL. So learning game (social skills basically) and what not has improved my life 5x-10x (maybe even some psychs here and there for “spirituality”’s sake (I just wanted to get high as fuck,) but that’s not necessary, as I am taking a break from them now.)

I don’t know, I still have hard days too and recently taking on my life purpose has been quite the challenge. 

Anyways, just my two cents. Leo of course has some great points as do others.

Have a nice one!

I suppose that is the correct order of doing things, neither sex nor psychedelics are available in my very blue culture, sex is available in shady places, but I want to have an actual high quality attractive loving girlfriend, which isn't happening any time soon lol.

Yes hard days always happen, to be honest we all have the tendency to be quite harsh on ourselves, underestimating the progress we have actually made, for me, this negative motivation of "I am not doing enough" keeps me going, as unhealthy as it is.

Have a nice one too... life enjoyer.
Here is  a meme in your honor:

 

okay it is silly lol.

 

@Lyubov

Okay, seems like you got a lot on your plate, it is good you are working on it.
regarding the questions:

1. no, I don't feel good enough yet as "good enough" is too high in my standards
2. no, I don't feel lovable, but I wish to, this actually caused me a lot of problems, in terms of loneliness.
3. yes, I do believe that despite not being good enough, I have the capability to thrive some day, which is why I keep going.

I like the other pointers, Taoism is cool as well. I am getting more clarity.

[Lyubov]

5 hours ago, Ayham said:

 

Okay, seems like you got a lot on your plate, it is good you are working on it.
regarding the questions:

1. no, I don't feel good enough yet as "good enough" is too high in my standards
2. no, I don't feel lovable, but I wish to, this actually caused me a lot of problems, in terms of loneliness.
3. yes, I do believe that despite not being good enough, I have the capability to thrive some day, which is why I keep going.

I like the other pointers, Taoism is cool as well. I am getting more clarity.

Remember that you are not a victim. You are the creator of your emotions, not the victim of it.

Any painful emotions or confusion you are experiencing now are of your own creation and they are done so through your beliefs. This is really crucial I found to resolving and working with hard times like this. Are you aware that your own finger is on the button? I’m not saying this to be hard on you, it’s just absolutely crucial in order to find resolution and return to both peace of mind and clarity. 
 

It’s very easy for that human minded side of us to want to sit in painful emotions and want to feel bad. What we have to do is sort of get in touch with our inner sage, the spiritual parent to help take care of our inner child.

1) you say you don’t believe you are good enough. Why? I believe you are good enough. Now either you’re right about being not good enough or I’m right that you are good enough. What evidence that you have that proves you are not good enough? 

2) why do you believe you are not lovable? I believe you are. So again, what evidence do you have that proves that you are unlovable?

3) ok so you have this belief that you can cope and survive, which I agree I believe you can too. 

I think your main area of focus should be on resolving any beliefs you have on your self worth and value. It looks like you aren’t fully connected to your true value. I would look to do self inquiry and really hone in on why you don’t believe you are good enough or lovable. What makes a person good enough and lovable?

the good thing about a situation like this is even though it seems so complicated, in actuality it usually just boils down to a few unresolved issues we have about our self worth

Edited October 10 by Lyubov

[LifeEnjoyer]

8 hours ago, Ayham said:

Have a nice one too... life enjoyer.
Here is  a meme in your honor:

 

okay it is silly lol.

LMAO

<3

[Ayham]

@Lyubov

Quote

Remember that you are not a victim. You are the creator of your emotions, not the victim of it.

got it

I got you, I am creating my own emotions through the filter of my mind and my own thoughts.

 

Quote

1) you say you don’t believe you are good enough. Why? I believe you are good enough. Now either you’re right about being not good enough or I’m right that you are good enough. What evidence that you have that proves you are not good enough? 

2) why do you believe you are not lovable? I believe you are. So again, what evidence do you have that proves that you are unlovable?

3) ok so you have this belief that you can cope and survive, which I agree I believe you can too. 

1. well because, I haven't achieved enough to feel like I am good enough, I know this reeks as the most superficial statement which goes against the whole love yourself unconditionally idea, and I am aware it is wrong intellectually, but I am just saying what I deep down feel I suppose.

2. Again I will give the superficial answer that I feel deep down, which is, feeling ugly and lots of rejection from girls, maybe as well the fact that my father abandoned us since I was young?, but that didn't really have a conscious effect on me, I don't remember ever caring, there is probably a  subconscious effect though.

3. great!

Quote

I think your main area of focus should be on resolving any beliefs you have on your self worth and value. It looks like you aren’t fully connected to your true value. I would look to do self inquiry and really hone in on why you don’t believe you are good enough or lovable. What makes a person good enough and lovable?

 okay that's a good pointer, will take it seriously.

[Princess Arabia]

On 10/9/2024 at 7:33 PM, Davino said:

@Salvijus Women listen to their heart and are still quite confused

We pay attention to our feelings and emotions. If we listened to the heart, we'd be single every time.

Edited October 11 by Princess Arabia

[Lyubov]

12 hours ago, Ayham said:

@Lyubov

got it

I got you, I am creating my own emotions through the filter of my mind and my own thoughts.

 

1. well because, I haven't achieved enough to feel like I am good enough, I know this reeks as the most superficial statement which goes against the whole love yourself unconditionally idea, and I am aware it is wrong intellectually, but I am just saying what I deep down feel I suppose.

2. Again I will give the superficial answer that I feel deep down, which is, feeling ugly and lots of rejection from girls, maybe as well the fact that my father abandoned us since I was young?, but that didn't really have a conscious effect on me, I don't remember ever caring, there is probably a  subconscious effect though.

3. great!

 okay that's a good pointer, will take it seriously.

So it’s good that you agree that you create your own emotions through your thoughts and beliefs. That right there is a huge step. You would be surprised how many people believe they are a victim to their state and think they have little to no control over how they feel. 
 

1. Ok these are good answers and I’m glad you’re not filtering what you’re writing and speaking honestly because I can tell you that is how you find your way back to peace, clarity, and wholeness. 
 

“well because, I haven't achieved enough to feel like I am good enough” 

So you believe a person has to achieve something in order to be good enough? Is that true? What do they have to achieve? According to who? Does this rule apply to every human or just to you? What if someone you loved and cared about came up to you, perhaps a child, and said they aren’t good enough because they haven’t achieved something, would you agree with them and tell them they aren’t good enough? 

“I know this reeks as the most superficial statement which goes against the whole love yourself unconditionally idea, and I am aware it is wrong intellectually, but I am just saying what I deep down feel I suppose.”
 

Dude this is good that you’re being honest cause like I said this is how you find your way back to truth. You aren’t sugar coating it. This is something I hear a lot too that someone intellectually understands but deep down they feel differently. This is where we can do self inquiry and dig deep to really understand what some people call the subconscious mind / ego / inner child believes.

The sub conscious mind or ego or what I call the inner child is that sort of part of the mind that has an identity that is formed by beliefs going way back or childhood. And it order to return you to clarity we have to go back and sort of reverse engineer it to sort of release any beliefs that sort of go against your true nature, what I believe is that you (and everyone else) have innate spiritual value, true value, it can’t be given to you nor taken away. It’s intrinsic and just always here if we allow ourselves to connect with it.

The belief you have about needing to earn your value goes against this belief I stated. So now either I’m right and you’re wrong or you’re right and I’m wrong. So I invite you to tell me why you believe a person has to achieve enough in order to be good enough?

 

2. “Again I will give the superficial answer that I feel deep down, which is, feeling ugly and lots of rejection from girls, maybe as well the fact that my father abandoned us since I was young?,”

Again, I personally wouldn’t call that superficial but instead you’re being honest. And I can see why you’re sort of having this issue you’re having. Because on one hand you have these lofty ideas and beliefs you think you’re supposed to believe and feel but then deep down you actually feel how you describe here and this is your experience. So you have two belief systems at odds with one another. Let’s break this down more and maybe it can help you go deeper to return to integrity on this. 
 

Why do you create an emotion you label as “feeling ugly”? Give me a belief or an explanation, please don’t give an emotion. It’s very easy to get stuck on the emotion but it’s the belief that’s causing it. W

“Lots of rejections from girls” ok so I believe a girl cannot reject you. A girl can communicate her choice to you on whether or not she wishes to be with you but it’s not possible for her to reject you, the reason is because the word reject has the connotation that your value has been affect, but like I said I believe everyone has innate spiritual value which can not ever change no matter what. So a woman communicating her choice to you does not change your value. 

“maybe as well the fact that my father abandoned us since I was young?” I think this is where you should be focusing most. Do you believe if a child is left by a father that they are unlovable? If a parent abandons a child, does that mean the child is unlovable? If a child said to you they believe they are unlovable because their father left them would you tell them they are correct? I believe we are always lovable because we have true value that can’t be given or taken away. I believe love is not a commodity that can be given or taken away but it’s something we experience when we connect to our true value. Again, either im right or you’re wrong or you’re right and I’m wrong.
 

This isn’t a debate or anything. I’m just trying to break down the logic behind your beliefs that are creating these painful emotions and confusion for you. I’m trying to show you the power of self inquiry and how you can resolve many of these issues by just questioning them. 
 

So I invite you to please explain why you believe if a father leaves a family that the child is now unlovable? Why do you believe this?

Edited October 11 by Lyubov

[Atb210201]

This is very good.

At least you know now that most of the world doesn't know what it's talking about.

Everything seems to be contradicting Everything else.

It's the perfect spot to be in.

Be in the spot that you are.

Let go of everything that you've read so far.

Just let all the information go and rest in this moment for even just a moment.

Throw away your Intellect and just be.

Soak in your heart and being.

Rest, relax and be calm.

Everything you've read was only pointing you to this.

Just be and don't lose yourself in thoughts.

Breathe and everything is fine outside of the realm of thoughts.

You'll quickly realize if you do this that this is the only sensible place there is everything else is just senseless and imaginary.

Edited October 11 by Atb210201

[Ayham]

13 hours ago, Lyubov said:

So it’s good that you agree that you create your own emotions through your thoughts and beliefs. That right there is a huge step. You would be surprised how many people believe they are a victim to their state and think they have little to no control over how they feel. 
 

1. Ok these are good answers and I’m glad you’re not filtering what you’re writing and speaking honestly because I can tell you that is how you find your way back to peace, clarity, and wholeness. 
 

“well because, I haven't achieved enough to feel like I am good enough” 

So you believe a person has to achieve something in order to be good enough? Is that true? What do they have to achieve? According to who? Does this rule apply to every human or just to you? What if someone you loved and cared about came up to you, perhaps a child, and said they aren’t good enough because they haven’t achieved something, would you agree with them and tell them they aren’t good enough? 

“I know this reeks as the most superficial statement which goes against the whole love yourself unconditionally idea, and I am aware it is wrong intellectually, but I am just saying what I deep down feel I suppose.”
 

Dude this is good that you’re being honest cause like I said this is how you find your way back to truth. You aren’t sugar coating it. This is something I hear a lot too that someone intellectually understands but deep down they feel differently. This is where we can do self inquiry and dig deep to really understand what some people call the subconscious mind / ego / inner child believes.

The sub conscious mind or ego or what I call the inner child is that sort of part of the mind that has an identity that is formed by beliefs going way back or childhood. And it order to return you to clarity we have to go back and sort of reverse engineer it to sort of release any beliefs that sort of go against your true nature, what I believe is that you (and everyone else) have innate spiritual value, true value, it can’t be given to you nor taken away. It’s intrinsic and just always here if we allow ourselves to connect with it.

The belief you have about needing to earn your value goes against this belief I stated. So now either I’m right and you’re wrong or you’re right and I’m wrong. So I invite you to tell me why you believe a person has to achieve enough in order to be good enough?

 

2. “Again I will give the superficial answer that I feel deep down, which is, feeling ugly and lots of rejection from girls, maybe as well the fact that my father abandoned us since I was young?,”

Again, I personally wouldn’t call that superficial but instead you’re being honest. And I can see why you’re sort of having this issue you’re having. Because on one hand you have these lofty ideas and beliefs you think you’re supposed to believe and feel but then deep down you actually feel how you describe here and this is your experience. So you have two belief systems at odds with one another. Let’s break this down more and maybe it can help you go deeper to return to integrity on this. 
 

Why do you create an emotion you label as “feeling ugly”? Give me a belief or an explanation, please don’t give an emotion. It’s very easy to get stuck on the emotion but it’s the belief that’s causing it. W

“Lots of rejections from girls” ok so I believe a girl cannot reject you. A girl can communicate her choice to you on whether or not she wishes to be with you but it’s not possible for her to reject you, the reason is because the word reject has the connotation that your value has been affect, but like I said I believe everyone has innate spiritual value which can not ever change no matter what. So a woman communicating her choice to you does not change your value. 

“maybe as well the fact that my father abandoned us since I was young?” I think this is where you should be focusing most. Do you believe if a child is left by a father that they are unlovable? If a parent abandons a child, does that mean the child is unlovable? If a child said to you they believe they are unlovable because their father left them would you tell them they are correct? I believe we are always lovable because we have true value that can’t be given or taken away. I believe love is not a commodity that can be given or taken away but it’s something we experience when we connect to our true value. Again, either im right or you’re wrong or you’re right and I’m wrong.
 

This isn’t a debate or anything. I’m just trying to break down the logic behind your beliefs that are creating these painful emotions and confusion for you. I’m trying to show you the power of self inquiry and how you can resolve many of these issues by just questioning them. 
 

So I invite you to please explain why you believe if a father leaves a family that the child is now unlovable? Why do you believe this?

okay, I will play the devil's advocate, I will try to prove why I am "not enough" or "unlovable", and see if you can convince me (Hegelian dialectic at its finest)

1. welll, let's see, for example if a 40 years old man comes, and he: has no skills whatsoever, has no experience in anything, isn't really bright, isn't really hardworking, hasn't really tried to do well, has zero social skills.
Would I call him enough? no
if it was someone with a mental disability, or an incapable child? sure, they would still be enough

Is it an objective thing? no, but that's just the standard I choose to apply on people, it depends on: their starting point, their capabilities, their goals, etc.
This 40 years old guy could be good enough in his standards, or someone else's, but not in mine.

following this logic, I would say, considering that I had the opportunity to be and to do much more, I would say I am not enough in my subjective standards.
And this applies to other people who had opportunity and capability, but didn't use it.
I know a lot of people who I still consider "not enough", and few others I would consider "enough"

2. I feel ugly because: I am too skinny, I have bad facial features, I have a lot of acne, I have no idea how to dress well.
Okay, I am convinced by the point that a girl can't reject you, my value doesn't change just because a girl refused to want to be with me, got it, but it still affects self esteem, I feel like I have to be more attractive, or work on myself harder to be able to be lovable, in a romantic sense i mean.

 

The thing about my father, I would agree that it doesn't make me unlovable or anything, I don't have that as a belief, but I am saying that it could be a subconscious belief I am not aware of.

Maybe we do have innate value as humans, but I choose to apply certain standards on myself, as well as others, otherwise I wouldn't really get anywhere. 

[Ayham]

3 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

This is very good.

At least you know now that most of the world doesn't know what it's talking about.

Everything seems to be contradicting Everything else.

It's the perfect spot to be in.

Be in the spot that you are.

Let go of everything that you've read so far.

Just let all the information go and rest in this moment for even just a moment.

Throw away your Intellect and just be.

Soak in your heart and being.

Rest, relax and be calm.

Everything you've read was only pointing you to this.

Just be and don't lose yourself in thoughts.

Breathe and everything is fine outside of the realm of thoughts.

You'll quickly realize if you do this that this is the only sensible place there is everything else is just senseless and imaginary.

quite poetic huh