Why is there so much violence and torchure in the porn industry?

[Something Funny]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

As long as you're being consistent and believe that both the production and consumption is varying degrees of unconscious. 

It happens far too often that people will be hypocritical and hate on porn stars... while simultaneously being avid consumers of porn.

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

Yeah, that type of hypocrisy is very common. I think it tends to come from general shame-based attitudes towards sex.

And then, there's some kind of cognitive dissonance that helps the judger cleanse themselves of their shame around the enjoyment of porn by projecting those shame-based feelings onto the porn stars, which turns into disgust and contempt.

@Emerald @Princess Arabia why, after both nagging Leo with "aren't you watching porn as well" you just ignore his response and keep singing the same tune? I would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Is it hypocritical to call out something if you participate in it? Like Leo said, production of your phone is unethical, yet you still use it. Does that mean that you now have no right to raise this issue because it would be hypocritical?

How is that different from watching porn while also raising issues that it has?

If we are not allowed to do that, then how are we supposed to improve as a society? Because this applies to basically everything: "Oh, you don't like climate change? Aren't you causing it as well by driving a car to work, hypocrite?" Where does this attitude lead us? Literal crabs in the bucket situation.

***

Also, I love how both of you say that judging things is wrong and unspiritual, while you in turn judge people on this forum for raising this issue. And instead of acknowledging that they might be to a degree, just weaponise psychology and therapy talk to dismiss them:
 

Quote

I think it tends to come from general shame-based attitudes towards sex.

And then, there's some kind of cognitive dissonance that helps the judger cleanse themselves of their shame around the enjoyment of porn by projecting those shame-based feelings onto the porn stars, which turns into disgust and contempt.

Quote

No, it's a way of expressing the anger inside. 

Quote

I don't think decenticization of porn leads to more hard core stuff. If anything, it reduces the need for porn entirely and probably lowers one's sex drive but not necessarily. Just my opinion  

"There is nothing wrong with porn, there is something wrong with you if you have an issue with it" is basically what you are saying.

@Emerald if you really cared about helping people get over their shame based feelings around porn, wouldn't the first step be trying to emphasise with them and acknowledging that some things that they are saying are valid? As opposed to, you know, entirely dismissing what they are saying and just shaming them more?

[Something Funny]

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

"There is nothing wrong with porn, there is something wrong with you if you have an issue with it" is basically what you are saying.

It's not about what you think I'm basically saying. It's about what I said. Nothing in my words implied judgement. They were simply observations and my own analysis and implications. I would like for you to quote me verbatim where I passed judgements and criticisms and where it wasn't just a response to what I thought about something that was said. Please do, and make sure it's not someone else's quote that I didn't personally say. I will agree with you when I see it and agree where I was passing judgements because I'm not afraid to do so and admit to anything.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

Also, I love how both of you say that judging things is wrong and unspiritual, while you in turn judge people on this forum for raising this issue. And instead of acknowledging that they might be to a degree, just weaponise psychology and therapy talk to dismiss them:

Those quotes that you quoted of me up top were not judgements. They are simply stating reasons why I think people behave the way they do. Saying "it's a way of expressing the anger inside" is not a judgement. A judgement would be to say, they are dirty and disgusting and expresses their anger like how dogs do. That's a judgement and a criticism.

Also, the desensitized comment I made is not a judgement. I was merely stating what might be the case when people get desensitized and what might be a result of that. Neither of those quotes of mine above were judgements, they were merely observations and what I concluded from it.

Edited October 12 by Princess Arabia

[Something Funny]

@Princess Arabia I kind of lumped those quotes of yours with Emerald, sorry. I've re-read what you are talking about ad can see that you were using them in a different context.

But my other point still stands. I don't think that just because someone watches porn that means that they have no right to criticise it.

[Lyubov]

You guys are wild for hating on anal sex.

Anal sex is fine (and beautiful)

but it’s not a casual thing to do, imo for a relationship only. 

Most straight men love anal and want to do it with their girlfriend, 

Edited October 12 by Lyubov

[gettoefl]

28 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

You guys are wild for hating on anal sex.

Anal sex is fine (and beautiful)

but it’s not a casual thing to do, imo for a relationship only. 

Most straight men love anal and want to do it with their girlfriend, 

Make sure you green-light her doing it back to you though.

Fare's fair.

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Something Funny said:

@Emerald @Princess Arabia why, after both nagging Leo with "aren't you watching porn as well" you just ignore his response and keep singing the same tune? I would like to hear your thoughts on it.

Is it hypocritical to call out something if you participate in it? Like Leo said, production of your phone is unethical, yet you still use it. Does that mean that you now have no right to raise this issue because it would be hypocritical?

How is that different from watching porn while also raising issues that it has?

If we are not allowed to do that, then how are we supposed to improve as a society? Because this applies to basically everything: "Oh, you don't like climate change? Aren't you causing it as well by driving a car to work, hypocrite?" Where does this attitude lead us? Literal crabs in the bucket situation.

***

Also, I love how both of you say that judging things is wrong and unspiritual, while you in turn judge people on this forum for raising this issue. And instead of acknowledging that they might be to a degree, just weaponise psychology and therapy talk to dismiss them:
 

"There is nothing wrong with porn, there is something wrong with you if you have an issue with it" is basically what you are saying.

@Emerald if you really cared about helping people get over their shame based feelings around porn, wouldn't the first step be trying to emphasise with them and acknowledging that some things that they are saying are valid? As opposed to, you know, entirely dismissing what they are saying and just shaming them more?

You're projecting a lot of stuff into my responses that just aren't there. I'm not shaming anyone. My post isn't even really about porn and people's opinions on it... it's about holding consistent perspectives and why people sometimes hold inconsistent perspectives.

And I didn't ignore Leo's response. I responded to Leo by saying "As long as you're being consistent", and I meant that.

And I don't have strong feelings about porn in either direction. If people want to watch it or don't, that's not a problem in my eyes. And I don't have a problem with people being pro-porn or anti-porn.

And of course the porn industry has frequent issues with exploitation as do many other industries, and yet we still consume. I don't disagree with him about that. And I'm also not judging that tendency. I don't consume animal products, but I do sometimes watch porn, I do have a phone/computer, I do pay taxes to pay for the bombing of children, and I do contribute to climate change.

It's just if someone makes a claim like "people who make porn is unconscious", it would be inconsistent to then believe that watching porn isn't also unconscious.

And as long as there is consistency in those perspectives, I don't take issue with someone holding that perspective. I was just challenging Leo a bit to see if he's being consistent.

And I wasn't talking about Leo in my later response to Princess Arabia. That's why I was talking in more general terms and referred to the person as "the judger". There is a pattern with people who judge porn stars, while consuming porn. And this tends to come generally from sexual shame that gets projected onto the porn stars. I know this because I used to do this when I was in my late teens. But I see others still doing this now.

And to clarify, I don't think Leo is engaging in that dynamic as he is operating from an entirely different paradigm.

But when was it that I said "judging things is wrong and unspiritual"?

I'm going to need a quote on that one because it feels like you're making an assumption about me and my perspective.

I don't think judging is wrong and unspiritual... and I don't care that much about what is wrong or unspiritual. There is nothing that's wrong, and there is nothing that's unspiritual.

I think it's important to drop judgments for one's own sake as any judgment will cause us to repress parts of ourselves. But judgment itself is just a way to cope with things. And if judgments arise for me or anyone else, they are an asset that can be used to explore the psyche more deeply.

However, discernment is very important. And I was challenging Leo a bit to make sure he's being discerning enough to avoid hypocrisy... and he was. So, I didn't press him on it further.

[Emerald]

10 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

It's funny how I don't really watch porn and i will never do porn, meaning have sex on camera for the world to see. Nothing to do with morality as I'm an escort but it's just not my thing; but I don't shame the industry and call those people dysfunctional and low-consciousness or judge them. I find it's people that engage in these activities as watchers and even those that unwillingly engage in it that have the most judgements; maybe for the reasons you mentioned. Keep in mind that I'm not speaking about where there is abuse and exploitation and kidnapping and child abuse. Excluding those cases, but where it's consensual and only involving adults who enjoy their work and have no problems with it. There are these cases, in case nobody knows about them. 

The bad comments I see are from the ones who are porn watchers. 

It could be because there is a sense of detachment because of it being on-screen, which flattens the person to just specific angles. And people become an easier projection screen when they're flattened out that way.

And it's not a real-life human interaction. So, it's easier to project things onto characters in movies compared to real people... whether those movies are porn movies or regular movies.

[Something Funny]

@Emerald I said that you ignored Leo's response, because you didn't really address what he said and then just went back to saying the same thing in your very next comment to Princess.

Can you answer this: why is it hypocritical to criticise porn while also watching porn?

19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I do pay taxes to pay for the bombing of children, and I do contribute to climate change.

 

Does that make you a hypocrite if you talk about those issue? If you say that war is low consciousness, then do you have a low level of consciousness for paying taxed that are spent on bombing children?

19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's just if someone makes a claim like "people who make porn is unconscious", it would be inconsistent to then believe that watching porn isn't also unconscious.

 

It can be unconscious, it doesn't have to be. As Leo's case seems to show. So no, it's not inherently inconsistent. 

 

19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That's why I was talking in more general terms and referred to the person as "the judger". There is a pattern with people who judge porn stars, while consuming porn. And this tends to come generally from sexual shame that gets projected onto the porn stars. I know this because I used to do this when I was in my late teens. But I see others still doing this now.

My issue with this is that instead of focusing on the point a person presents and addressing it at face value, you are instead making it about that person (a person on an online forum you know nothing about), basically dismissing they argument entirely because of who they supposedly are.

19 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But when was it that I said "judging things is wrong and unspiritual"?

 

That was referring to the comments Princess made, I see that talking to you both at the same time was a bad idea.

 

Edited October 12 by Something Funny

[Lyubov]

18 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Make sure you green-light her doing it back to you though.

Fare's fair.

Nah, fairness isn’t a straight line down the middle 

it’s a ying yang symbol

i def think it’s the man’s role to support his woman financially and be able to solve most of her survival issues if he wants to have sexual freedom and leadership in the relationship, which is what most men desire

same with having mistresses. Most men want a girlfriend or wife and then one or two other women just for sex on the side 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@Emerald I said that you ignored Leo's response, because you didn't really address what he said and then just went back to saying the same thing in your very next comment to Princess.

Can you answer this: why is it hypocritical to criticise porn while also watching porn?

Does that make you a hypocrite if you talk about those issue? If you say that war is low consciousness, then do you have a low level of consciousness for paying taxed that are spent on bombing children?

It can be unconscious, it doesn't have to be. As Leo's case seems to show. So no, it's not inherently inconsistent. 

My issue with this is that instead of focusing on the point a person presents and addressing it at face value, you are instead making it about that person (a person on an online forum you know nothing about), basically dismissing they argument entirely because of who they supposedly are.

That was referring to the comments Princess made, I see that talking to you both at the same time was a bad idea.

 

I didn't engage with Leo's response because I agree with what he said. We all engage in hypocritical behaviors like that.

But my questioning him wasn't about "Are you avoiding engaging in hypocritical behavior?" as this is something that everyone does.

My questioning him was about inconsistencies in his intellectual framework for discernment, as I know that having consistencies in his perspectives is important to him... and it's usually something that he's good at and well thought through with.

And I thought I'd caught him in an intellectual inconsistency.

So, I was challenging his level of intellectual consistency... and not his behaviors from a moralistic lens.

But because his perspective was consistent and reconciled, I didn't challenge him further. He admitted to the hypocrisy and how we all engage in hypocritical behavior, so that is what made his perspective consistent.

[Something Funny]

@Emerald but my point is that it's not a hypocritical behaviour!

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@Emerald but my point is that it's not a hypocritical behaviour!

I'm not very focused on hypocrisy in the dynamic with Leo's post. I wasn't challenging him on moral grounds at all nor was I attempting to paint him as a hypocrite. I was just challenging the rigor of his perspectives through an intellectual lens to see if I could catch him out in an intellectual inconsistency. But because he recognizes and accepts his hypocrisy, he passed the consistency challenge.

With the dynamic I was talking to Princess Arabia about, I was talking about a particular type of hypocrisy and where it comes from. But even then, it was for the purpose of talking about where that specific kind of hypocrisy comes from. 

I only care about ethics/morality/hypocrisy in situations where I feel a sense of danger or civic duty. Otherwise, it's just more human stuff.

[Scholar]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yup.

I also eat animals.

I also buy bombs for Israel to bomb Palestinian babies.

You know that factory sweatshop labor goes into making your phone, yet you still buy and use phones.

You also know that people are exploited to make art, film, music, yet you continue to consume and enjoy it.

The hell that goes into making art is distinct from the enjoyment of the art. Most Hollywood film production is a nightmare to work on. The employees working at Disneyland are in hell, yet you still take your kids there and enjoy the show. That's how capitalism works.

The process that goes into making porn is distinct from the beauty of the porn end-product, in the same way as a Disney cartoon. Your children don't care about the sweatshop labor that was needed to hand draw a cartoon. The cartoon is still great even if someone was killed to make it. In the same way that a basket of chicken wings is delicious.

What is this nonsense lol. A bunch of whataboutism, which is not even relevant to anything because you can produce all of these things perfectly ethically.

Not all cartoons have to be produced with sweatshop labor. And I doubt hentai and erotica are produced in unethical ways either.

 

None of the things you mention make it low consciousness. You made the assertion that selling sex is fundamentally low consciousness, and now you are moving it to the unethical ways in which some porn is produced.

 

You can make some arguments for why most porn is low consciousness, like most food is low consciousness. Sex itself is not in some essential way low consciousness, nor is selling art that contains or centers around sex. Rejecting an entire fascet of humanity is what I would call low consciousness.

 

Also: The most low consciousness thing possible is selling the Wisdom of God on a Youtube channel and making money with it. That's like the olympian medal of perversion and distortion of Truth.

I mean, just consider: All the trillions of beings who had to be eaten alive, tortured, raped just so you could sit on the internet and make your videos about God! Degenerate!

Edited October 12 by Scholar

[Scholar]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you think having sex with a goat is beautiful, that's your business. But I may regard it as degenerate.

Why do you have to be such an edgelord contrarian. 

 

You pretend like what we consider degenerate or not is completely arbitrary, just so you can make a point about the nature of reality. 

 

You make a thoughtless, spur in the moment statement and then you weasel yourself into selling it to us like some sort of gift from the heavens. If anything is degenerate it's that. 

 

What is most hilarious is that everyone takes it so seriously when it essence you are just trolling your own forum.

"Oh but Leo, you are inconsistent here, look!"

Guys, he literally doesn't give a shit. He says what he thinks at the time and then backward engineers it into wisdom. Just laugh at him and move on.

Edited October 12 by Scholar

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Scholar said:

Why do you have to be such an edgelord contrarian. 

 

You pretend like what we consider degenerate or not is completely arbitrary, just so you can make a point about the nature of reality. 

 

You make a thoughtless, spur in the moment statement and then you weasel yourself into selling it to us like some sort of gift from the heavens. If anything is degenerate it's that. 

 

What is most hilarious is that everyone takes it so seriously when it essence you are just trolling your own forum.

"Oh but Leo, you are inconsistent here, look!"

Guys, he literally doesn't give a shit. He says what he thinks at the time and then backward engineers it into wisdom. Just laugh at him and move on.

In so many words.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Scholar said:

You pretend like what we consider degenerate or not is completely arbitrary,

Your own post proves my point.

Edited October 12 by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

https://nitter.poast.org/Nero/status/1845094058059829630#m

[Someone here]

@Scholar 😌 please show some respect to Leo .