Advanced Ruts - Long-Term Personal Development

[The Renaissance Man]

TLDR:

I'm having problems with a new kind of "down" phase that I didn't experience before. I want to make a distinction between advanced and newbie ruts (feeling quite low in motivation and productivity to do productive stuff in life):

- The newbie exits his rut by learning about a new, flashy concept, protocol, motivational strategy, a new guru.

- The advanced has lived that cycle too many times, and feels like "he has already tried".

Note: I'm not talking about hopelessness. It's more about confusion because you don't know how to get back into your higher self, plus apathy towards all the self-help advice, because after years, you're still there (yes you've made lots of progress, but you're currently in your lower self and fallen into a lot of bad habits again).

 

 

--------------------

I'm curious to hear about your experience, I'm still exploring this new problem.

I undersand it's very easy to give me a solution like: look into the resistance, accept it, let go of it... or put in healthy habits again... or recognize the problems with this lifestyle, etc. The problem of the advanced rut is that the advanced is already familiar with those, and while this could actually be good advice, it's useless from his current low state (hopefully it makes sense?).

You may never have experienced this, it's a totally new things for me and I've been working with motivation for 4-5 years.

 

Here's some hypotheses I have:

- If you wait long enough, even the long ruts will become so painful that a new positive, long cycle, fueled by the new lessons will arise. So... don't worry about it too much

- There are ways to keep your consciousness and wisdom elevated overall, but I don't really know any powerful tools. Sure, good habits, staying healthy, are helpful, but they won't really keep you "mature".

- Another solution I thought of is having a mentor, or a sort of higher level of wisdom keeping you accountable. But I don't have one, and even having an imaginary one (which would be your logic) is good on paper, but in practice you won't keep the habit, so again, I don't have a solution on this plane.

- I'm also trying to think of ways to quickly re-gain consciousness, but I find my mind being super easily overwhelmed and jumping to the conclusion "we already know this won't be effective", distorting and simplifying the lessons too much to keep the low state (hopefully it makes sense). And even though I'm aware of this kind of self-deception, the emotional resistance in the moment is still overwhelming, so it's trickier than just noticing it.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Is not possible that what you take as a rut or down is just you reaching a plateur. Or in other words a stage of stagnation where you are know habituated with all sorts of techniques,ideias and passed so many times through the same pathways that feels like there is no space for newness? I am just speculating because part of the problem is being able to elaborate of what the problem really is or if is even a problem. Sometimes I feel this Death Peace. Is peaceful, but not a fulling peace but just a tedious felling that there is nothing to life anymore. An of course is not true. A trip a new book, new interessts, even meeting a girl with a very good femenine energy can awake you up. Of course hendoism tent to level up and you need more dopamine to feel like pursuing some new thing. Oh dear, the irony of God infinity, there will never be enogth exploration cause its infinitly curious about its on internals. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

This Guy makes Sense

https://www.skool.com/career-archetypes-community-6174/about

I am not doing it yet but is in my list of courses to complete.

[The Renaissance Man]

@Rafael Thundercat Thank you, yes I'm sure that's part of it. Some color in my life would probably be helpful, like a spark igniting some energy that then floods in the other areas as well, by improving my overall "state". But another tricky thing is that in the past I also tried making those changes. Lots of new hobbies, trips even... but it ends up being kind of empty. As a nice bonus to the core of your life it's great, but it won't "save you", and having experienced that, I don't really have any drive to do that again because I tried it already. Tricky stuff.

At the same time, there's some benefit in distraction, taking some time for inspiration, to add some color to life, as you said. Although I feel the main problem (not the only one, but the root of it) is forgetting important mature principles. And I feel like I can do a lot better with preventing these "dips in wisdom". For example, I'm trying to brainstorm some basic systems to fall back to when I forget about some teaching. Creating resources with the 5% of principles that yield 95% of the results, and referring to those when I feel a bit lost. And then getting back on track from there.

Has this ever happened to you? Or something along those lines?

[Rafael Thundercat]

2 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

@Rafael Thundercat Thank you, yes I'm sure that's part of it. Some color in my life would probably be helpful, like a spark igniting some energy that then floods in the other areas as well, by improving my overall "state". But another tricky thing is that in the past I also tried making those changes. Lots of new hobbies, trips even... but it ends up being kind of empty. As a nice bonus to the core of your life it's great, but it won't "save you", and having experienced that, I don't really have any drive to do that again because I tried it already. Tricky stuff.

At the same time, there's some benefit in distraction, taking some time for inspiration, to add some color to life, as you said. Although I feel the main problem (not the only one, but the root of it) is forgetting important mature principles. And I feel like I can do a lot better with preventing these "dips in wisdom". For example, I'm trying to brainstorm some basic systems to fall back to when I forget about some teaching. Creating resources with the 5% of principles that yield 95% of the results, and referring to those when I feel a bit lost. And then getting back on track from there.

Has this ever happened to you? Or something along those lines?

Systems to fall back? Like a safe net? This sound intestesting, like a parachute for when we end up in a free fall? you mean a physical, psychological or a blueprint of fundamentals to regain direction when you get off tracks?

To the last question. This off track keep happening to me. Sometimes is negative or sometimes is just a sign that I exausted the work to do in one area and need to find new venues to deal with. Similar to what Leo said in his post that he exausted the reading of most Self Help Material so now is giving focus to readings on understanding worldwide topics. This maybe is the karma of being a Renassaice man or a Polimath, one get tired of being attached to only one particular aspect of Reality,one feel the Call to Explore all is possible. Of course for this we need time,energy and a certain pace. Sometimes my energy and time is low and I need to respect that, but sometimes I need to force myself to engage otherwise Complacency reings. 

 

[The Renaissance Man]

4 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

you mean a physical, psychological or a blueprint of fundamentals to regain direction when you get off tracks?

Spot on. Although I have an intuition that it won't be the solution... the mind is too complex and smart for any blueprint to be enough to get it back on track... but I guess creating such a resource will at least improve my understanding.

4 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Sometimes my energy and time is low and I need to respect that, but sometimes I need to force myself to engage otherwise Complacency reings. 

Yup, although in this case it can be a problem to engage at all if nothing feels worthy enough from certain states. So you want to force yourself, you may even have the energy, but you just don't see the point. That's also one of the purposes of the blueprint. It's not so much about the knowledge, or the best practices to get back on track. I'm noticing it's really a state of mind that shifts my awareness, and from that position, that elevated perspective, I am effortlessly motivated. So my goal will be to find the right words to make "low me" see what "high me" was seeing. Possibly all I will need is a well crafted perspective statement. Like an eagle grabbing me from the back to 1km above the ground and tells me: this is the path, remember?

Even as a very curious guy, a Renaissance Man we might say, unless in a total state of eternal bliss, there will be some suffering -> drive to solve problems and get better -> more learning and maturity to do. I guess I'll just have to remind myself of this from time to time.

We'll see. Time to create!

Edited October 8 by The Renaissance Man

[Rafael Thundercat]

46 minutes ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Like an eagle grabbing me from the back to 1km above the ground and tells me: this is the path, remember?

Good analogy. Also it is like having a special mushroom on your path that if you eat it your clothes turn White, you get bigger and faster, like Mario when he finds Special Mushroom. 

So Microdosing could be a solution. 

In the Game of Life for every checkpoint there is a Big Boss to defeat. If you find a way to craft that Reminder Eagle that take you up in times of confusion you solved not only a issue to yourself but many. Our challenges are not particular. If you have this one probably many people have the same. 

 

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

Ideia. Create a Note Book, black cover with the Name Fenix Book.

Fenix is the Fire Eagle that reborn from the ashes. Symbol of Restart from zero, Ressurection. In the book add all that feels like would be reminders from Higher self said to the lower self. Of course better if the reminders are writen when you are in your Resourcefull mode. From my experience, the notes I take rigth after going high or deep in psycadelics are the ones the reignite my Soul to not quit in low seasons. Is almost like sending a safeboat to the future for myself. Because the Eagle we look for save us will not come from some Other Savior that Ourselfs. Even Quiting the Idea of being saved by some external force is a good reminder. Sovereignty video and What is Authoroty video in Leo YouTube deals with that. 

Of course to have some Mature Friends to ask for Help is also good. Good not to denie all external as unecessary, we sometimes need community to give some help, but in the last sense we need to turn into our own Inner Reserves to lift us up times to times. 

[Joshe]

10 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

I feel the main problem (not the only one, but the root of it) is forgetting important mature principles.

A daily alignment practice could help, but that also gets stale. Even if you remember the principles, you need drive to live by them. You could try to put yourself through some sort of self-designed boot camp where you brainwash your mind to respect your highest principles. 

What you want is to be able to act in ways that align with your goals and ideals, and your current strategy is to rely on principles/mindsets/thoughts, etc., to provide you with drive to take those actions. IME, this is the hardest thing to do because it requires an insane level of commitment and discipline, which would literally look insane and make you feel like you're insane because to do this, you have to radically brainwash yourself, at least, that's what it seems to take for me. I have not found any specific collection of thoughts, perspectives, principles, etc, that won't fail in the presence of negative emotion. 

I've tried creating an entire school of thought and daily principles/alignment practice that I wanted to connect to. I called it "The Advancing Life". I collected audio recording of my most important reminders, favorite principles, symbols, imagery, you name it. This all turned out to be a procrastination trap. 

I just ended up adding more and more to it and never focused on the absolute essentials. One thing always leads to another, which is why, IMO, essentialism is the most important principle for self-dev work. There's not enough time and energy to fix everything, so we have to only work on one or two at a time. If you were to actually integrate the principle of essentialism, that in itself would solve most of your problems. The hard thing about this principle is that there are many things that you're interested in that you will have to surrender but I can't think of another principle with a higher payoff. Maybe the first principle should be "know thyself", but that's a huge project. And the principle of "balance" is important too. As far as I can tell, these 3 principles are the most important. But, I just thought that some sort of principle that connects you with the finitude of your lifespan is probably necessary as well. Maybe attach a bunch of ideas to a symbol of an hourglass!  (there I go procrastinating again)

When it comes down to it, after you define your goals and strategy, stop all thought, know your "why", and put one foot in front of the other, without hesitation, over and over and over. It really can be that simple. 

I'm still trying to let go of all the fun thinking and dreaming, which I tell myself is productive, but I'm not ready yet. When I am ready, I need to actually implement what I've laid out above. That's my plan to solve this problem. 

Edited October 8 by Joshe

[Rafael Thundercat]

Sometimes ideias from Old Folks like Napoleon Hill can still be handy.

Starting a Master Mind Group. Not this forum of course  here is more distraction than accontability. I mean a offline face to face one with likeminded people. 

https://mastermindbetter.com/

 

[QVx]

I have been experiencing this same problem for quite some time. Having spent the last two years grounding myself from intense psychedelic experiences with DMT, I have come to the position of feeling unfulfilled with life; quite specifically my career and personal hobbies.

Frustratingly, I can see, feel, and directly experience all the traps that I’m stuck in and unfortunately have been unable to pick myself completely free.

My only progress has been accepting and transcending previous beliefs in a very slow, inefficient, and painful way.

I clearly have developed this phenomenal breadth and depth of being compared to everyone I’ve ever met in person, yet I’m not able to translate this into anything meaningful.

I’ve experienced the absolute and have seen through the mundane, yet am unable to integrate the two into a coherent and meaningful way of living that brings deep peace, satisfaction, and purpose.

To have a teacher or mentor who has been through this themselves seem to be the only rational way of expediting this process so that I can reach beyond that which is in its current state. 

It would be interesting to hear from others as well as to whether they have had any significant breakthrough.

[UnbornTao]

Essentially, feeling stuck is of your own making. Easier to say than to experience, though. Our own desire, and the cultural assumption that we should get everything we want, is what traps us.

Watch the domain of ideals:

• What do you assume has to be happening in your life that isn't? 
• What are you comparing yourself and your life to? 

You can keep pursuing your aspirations without this struggle.

Edited October 14 by UnbornTao

[The Renaissance Man]

16 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Of course better if the reminders are writen when you are in your Resourcefull mode.

Yes, great if then refined with what resonates and works when you're actually getting out of the low state in real time. This is what I'm currently doing. Any time I see an improvement I'm like: what caused that?

 

@Joshe thank you that's very valuable and quite close to the problem I'm talking about. In a way I was planning to have an essentialist approach, in the sense that those principles and practices would be the few, most effective ones that simply move me forward, even by a single step. Trusting that then they are able to bring me to a slightly better perspective, from which I can see more and more and it sparks what's needed to get back to my higher self.

It's too obvious now that trying to do all that's possible from a low state just doesn't work. Hopefully in that low state I don't forget this lol. So tricky!

 

@QVx one of the problems I seem to have is a lack of clarity. Maybe the idea can help you and you can create your own: I'm developing a "map of self-actualization", trying to see every aspect that needs work. This should help me:

1. Clearly knowing what I need to work on and get better at to reach the next stage

2. Have a holistic of the survival mind (I'm still totally outside the spiritual journey) and how everything interconnects. For example, how self-deception influences motivation and relationships.

13 hours ago, QVx said:

To have a teacher or mentor who has been through this themselves seem to be the only rational way of expediting this process so that I can reach beyond that which is in its current state. 

I feel the same: speed is really lacking overall. I feel I could do much more. But the reason I can't get myself to be more effective currently is consciousness. I can't see the problems in my current approach deeply enough to improve them. That's why I'm really going heavy on clarity with the map above, but also in creating a safety net to re-gain consciousness quickly.

I haven't ever tried to find a mentor, but in those moments I'm really seeing how valuable that would be.

[The Renaissance Man]

@UnbornTao While that may be true, you've got to meet the mind where it's at to persuade it. This is a hard concept to be conscious of even when you're in a high state, let alone in a low state where even the more basic lessons aren't resonating.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Sometimes one way I have to get myself out of numbness is to stumble on crazy people. Not idiotic crazy people but uncommom people. Like this guy 

https://michaelgarfield.medium.com/dont-optimize-your-life-b6c516710c36

People that speak or write or make art or whatever in a total opposite fashion than everyone. 

Is like going to sleep and sending the menssage to your subconcious " I wil have an wild dream tonigth, that will shatter my previous dreams and sparkle my curiosity. Of course I dont need to do it. Is just that I never let my boring times kill the hope that tomorrow something may appear that will make me regain Awe or new A-ha moments. 

Pray for an Ephiphany, again and again. Your pray may be answered.

[KoryKat]

How do you discern if people are at the higher tier level?

How do you utilize people at your level to develop further? (what conversations)

Who are you , post ego-death?  Are you simply Being without name or something?   Whats the purpose of this Being? Is it like Transcendence and Collective Contribution still?

What is a Turquoise level relapse like?

How do you get back to Turquoise after a relapse?

 

[KoryKat]

On 10/8/2024 at 5:42 AM, Rafael Thundercat said:

Systems to fall back? Like a safe net? This sound intestesting, like a parachute for when we end up in a free fall? you mean a physical, psychological or a blueprint of fundamentals to regain direction when you get off tracks?

To the last question. This off track keep happening to me. Sometimes is negative or sometimes is just a sign that I exausted the work to do in one area and need to find new venues to deal with. Similar to what Leo said in his post that he exausted the reading of most Self Help Material so now is giving focus to readings on understanding worldwide topics. This maybe is the karma of being a Renassaice man or a Polimath, one get tired of being attached to only one particular aspect of Reality,one feel the Call to Explore all is possible. Of course for this we need time,energy and a certain pace. Sometimes my energy and time is low and I need to respect that, but sometimes I need to force myself to engage otherwise Complacency reings. 

 

"Catch the mind wandering, bring it back"

One of my tried-and-true system was just the audiobook Power of Now, got me out of some dark places.

Personally I highly recommend, in this order
1. Wilber's 4 Quadrants
2. Loevinger-Cook's 9 Stages of Ego Development Theory 
3. Terri O'Fallon STAGES model
4. Integral Spiral Dynamics 

The first one is absolutely core foundational -  #2 #3 and #4 are sibling models, but they are sorted by relevance towards individual (Spiral Dynamics is more collective based)

Edited October 14 by KoryKat