Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Basman]

On 08/10/2024 at 3:43 PM, Leo Gura said:

Of course it's not from bad intentions. Self-bias and self-deception mean that people who do the most evil things think they are saving the world from Satan.

The reasons Israelis commit such atrocities is precisely because they think of themselves as the good guys and heroes, without considering that that narrative is a self-deception, which of course, it is.

Thinking of yourself as good is the ultimate moral self-deception. The #1 thing to realize in the domain of morality is that you are not good, you are evil. Without this realization no serous morality is possible. This is exactly what Israelis refuse to do. Everyone is evil. It's just a question of whether you're conscious of it or not. Evil isn't bad intentions, it's good intentions blinded by self-bias.

I can't remember which philosopher said it, but the basic idea was that an action isn't inherently ethical without first wanting to do an unethical act. Doing something because you think you should do it without acknowledging the desire to be "evil" isn't being ethical according to this logic.

[Nivsch]

18 minutes ago, zazen said:

Check this new clip going around of Smotrich claiming Israel can encompass Jordan and Syria (correct the translation if wrong?). This is currently who's in government.

Well yeah Smotrich is a nightmare I won't dispute that.

18 minutes ago, zazen said:

I think a question can be asked though, at what point is the society to blame and not just the state or elites? That gets complex

Today this is like we have two societies that are quite the opposite of one another. The SD Green one and the Blue one. This is why there is a fear from civil war in Israel.

Edited October 10 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

7 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Many greens want israelis gone "from the river to the sea"

Those are radical Greens. Most sensible greens want two states and justice for Israeli crimes.

None of my green friends want Israel to be destroyed nor to kill Jews.

They basically want the government and IDF to be heavily trailed for war crimes and to restore Palestine to the 1968 borders (kick out all the settlers).

This is the pure Green pov.

Unfortunately you have radical Arabs going on those protests and they indeed can chant hateful language towards Israel or Jews as you have said.

Thing is those people are not Green, they are Blue.

Blue people living in West definitely want what you say

Edited October 10 by Karmadhi

[Alex4]

15 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Those are radical Greens. Most sensible greens want two states and justice for Israeli crimes.

None of my green friends want Israel to be destroyed nor to kill Jews.

They basically want the government and IDF to be heavily trailed for war crimes and to restore Palestine to the 1968 borders (kick out all the settlers).

This is the pure Green pov.

Unfortunately you have radical Arabs going on those protests and they indeed can chant hateful language towards Israel or Jews as you have said.

Thing is those people are not Green, they are Blue.

Blue people living in West definitely want what you say

Well explained. Do you know any documentary that explains this conflict from a green (non-radical) perspective?

[Karmadhi]

12 minutes ago, Alex4 said:

Well explained. Do you know any documentary that explains this conflict from a green (non-radical) perspective?

I do not know documentaries but you can find tons of interviews where Green people talk about it.

Owen Jones is a prime example.

Francesca Fiorentini is another.

Both have talked about it on Piers Morgan show and they have their own channels.

Cenk Ugyur is another example.

None of them say that Hamas attack was fine nor they want Israel gone nor they want to kill Jews.

They may have somewhat a Pro Palestine bias (I do too to be honest) but I never saw them degrade into genocidal talk about Israel or Jews.

They condemned Hamas, calls them terrorists but also has a very pro Palestine viewpoint and wants good for them.

 

Edited October 10 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Well yeah Smotrich is a nightmare I won't dispute that.

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Is he from Ben Gvir party or another?

Who would you say is worse?

I see Ben Gvir gets more hate, is he more cruel than Smotrich or they are same?

I read that Ben Gvir was involved in a terrorist attack against Palestinians in a mosque years ago.

Meanwhile I read Smotrich made a remark that it would be moral and ok to starve 2 million Gazans to get the hostages back which the whole world condemned including the EU and UK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

 

Edited October 10 by Karmadhi

[hundreth]

This may be a cynical viewpoint, but the current status quo is destroying both Israel and the Palestinians.

Israel on it's current course is destroying both the Palestinians and their international standing, well being, and future. It will take at least a generation before this reality results in tangible consequences. By that time, Gaza will be unlivable and the West Bank will be further expanded on and hopes for a two state solution will be dead. 

I actually feel the most practical step now can be to take these billions in aid money, as well as the billions in military funds fighting this war from Israel and the U.S. and give it to the Palestinians as reparations along with a path to placement outside of Israel. Unfortunately this seems like the best of the worst outcomes. 

Sometimes, it just is that way. My family is from Iraq. They were all kicked out of Iraq and forced to emigrate to Israel. Now you can point fingers and say that's because of Israel, but my family did nothing wrong. All their valuables and money were stolen. They had prosperous businesses and homes in Baghdad, and it is all gone forever. They will never have their homes back. But ok, we move on and start lives elsewhere. 

[Nivsch]

33 minutes ago, hundreth said:

They were all kicked out of Iraq and forced to emigrate to Israel. Now you can point fingers and say that's because of Israel,

Why they have kicked out?

Just because Israel existed than other Jews will be kicked out from surrounded countries? This still isn't Israel's fault.

Edited October 10 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

18 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Why they have kicked out?

Just because Israel existed than other Jews will be kicked out from surrounded countries? This still isn't Israel's fault.

Oh I agree with you, just saying even if that's the interpretation you take and want to blame it all on Israel it doesn't make it those Jews fault who were living in Iraq and all the other surrounding Arab countries. 

But of course, it was never that simple.

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Oh I agree with you, just saying even if that's the interpretation you take and want to blame it all on Israel it doesn't make it those Jews fault who were living in Iraq and all the other surrounding Arab countries. 

But of course, it was never that simple.

Yeah I am absolutely with you here.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Is he from Ben Gvir party or another?

Who would you say is worse?

I see Ben Gvir gets more hate, is he more cruel than Smotrich or they are same?

Yes Ben Gvir is the worst. In his shift the violence in the Arab society, Jew society and settlers towards Palestinians is the worst. 

Edited October 10 by Nivsch

[Nemra]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is amazing work. Wow!

 

The founders of Israel themselves called it "cleansing" of Arabs. Case closed.

Enlightening! Thanks for sharing.

How did you find those videos?

Edited October 10 by Nemra

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Unfortunately you have radical Arabs going on those protests and they indeed can chant hateful language towards Israel or Jews as you have said.

Thing is those people are not Green, they are Blue.

Agree and even part of the westerners that shout those slogans aren't even green.

Edited October 10 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Owen Jones is a prime example

Actually Owen Jones is too negative and judgmental to a delusional way. Very shadow-ic. Not a mature way to tackle this tricky conflict.

Edited October 10 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

It’s wild how many channels and youtubers talk about Israel/Palestine/Iran

or Ukraine/Russia all day everyday day.

it’s their bread and butter and sends their children to college.

[Exystem]

 

[Basman]

"They insist to refer to themselves as a jewish state because then they know that if anybody wants to oppose, (...) what they are doing to the Palestinian people (...) then you are anti-semantic".

Interesting take from an Orthodox Jew, claiming that Zionism is not Judaism because of a specific passage from the Torah forbidding Jews from returning to Israel and a bunch of other theological differences. He appears however to oppose Zionism simply because of religious scripture in a SD Stage Blue kind of way, in which case if the Torah was written/interpreted differently in his sect then he might as well have supported Zionism.

It either way highlights the way Zionism uses religion to justify their ultranationalism. You can see this as well with the forced sterilization of Ethiopian Jewish women. Zionism is only loyal to their religion in a way that suits their racist views among other cute things like genocide. 

Edited October 10 by Basman

[Karmadhi]

10 hours ago, hundreth said:

My family is from Iraq. They were all kicked out of Iraq and forced to emigrate to Israel. Now you can point fingers and say that's because of Israel, but my family did nothing wrong. All their valuables and money were stolen. They had prosperous businesses and homes in Baghdad, and it is all gone forever. They will never have their homes back. But ok, we move on and start lives elsewhere. 

Sorry to hear that. Indeed the kicking out of the Jews from the Middle East and North Africa as retaliation for the Nakba was indeed wrong.

Although I cannot blame Palestinians for that, it was the governments of the host countries which did it.

Still messed up.

Edited October 11 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Actually Owen Jones is too negative and judgmental to a delusional way. Very shadow-ic. Not a mature way to tackle this tricky conflict.

Perhaps, but he comes from a solid Green place. He does not want Israel destroyed nor condone the Hamas attacks.

That is why I used his name.

He is totally different from the anti Israel blue crowd in the West that genuinely wants Israel gone.

 

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

It’s wild how many channels and youtubers talk about Israel/Palestine/Iran

or Ukraine/Russia all day everyday day.

it’s their bread and butter and sends their children to college.

Piers Morgan is a prime example