Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Nivsch]

@gambler The fact that this person is unreliable doesn’t cancel out what happened.

Are mass killing, burning people alive in their homes, murdering people in front of their families not outrageous enough already?

What’s the point of these shameless attempts to downplay what happened on Oct7?

I think all this is doing is making your side shoot itself in the foot.

This strategy doesn’t make your side's position be more respected but it does the opposite.

Of course rape occurred. Even if it exaggerated in some Israeli reports, hamas’s actions were barbaric, medieval, and far from anything resembling legitimate “resistance" and nothing you say will change that.

Edited April 6 by Nivsch

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@gambler The fact that this person is unreliable doesn’t cancel out what happened.

Are mass killing, burning people alive in their homes, murdering people in front of their families not outrageous enough already?

You can tell that to Israel, they were the ones who made up lies about babies in ovens, 40 beheaded babies, and mass rapes. If it was bad enough why are they lying about it?

So should no one point out false claims or ask for evidence otherwise it’s “downplaying” even when it is false accusations?

The claim was systematic mass rapes, and they haven’t provided evidence of a single rape. Even if rapes occurred, that’s still not proof of systematic mass rapes.

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

 

Of course rape occurred. Even if it exaggerated in some Israeli reports, hamas’s actions were barbaric, medieval, and far from anything resembling legitimate “resistance" and nothing you say will change that.

Then israel military operations in the past and now are not legitimate either, we have plenty of evidence of rapes, firing on civilians, and torture. 

Edited April 6 by Raze

[Nivsch]

@Raze This war isn't legitimate at this point and lost public support here too. This is Netanyahu's way to stall and survive at the expense of Hostages, soldiers and Palestinians lives.

Edited April 6 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Raze This war isn't legitimate at this point and lost public support here too. This is Netanyahu's way to stall and survive at the expense of Hostages, soldiers and Palestinians lives.

The end of the war isn't the end of Netanyahu but the beginning of a Palestinian state. No matter how uncomfortable or paranoid it makes Israelis 

[gambler]

"Each single one of those lies was promptly amplified by mainstream media without any question, doubt or fact checking. Senior editors at CNN, BBC, NYT… would berate anyone in their staff who would challenge those lies & say to them “why would Israel lie to us?”"

Edited April 6 by gambler

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, gambler said:

"Each single one of those lies was promptly amplified by mainstream media without any question, doubt or fact checking. Senior editors at CNN, BBC, NYT… would berate anyone in their staff who would challenge those lies & say to them “why would Israel lie to us?”"

Many of those points are partially true or controversial.

I asked Chat Gpt about those points, and while it is obvious that Israel lied in part of the details (I am not going to deny that Israel lies sometimes) it's important to check the things in a fair and nuanced way and not to get dragged into demonization which will infect and skew the whole research.

I deliberately asked it to exclude Israel's claims on them, which means that both sides of the argument here are only from foreign perspectives.

This is what it answered me. I add here now only couple of them to not overload the page.

 

Ambulance Workers

Agreement that Israel lied: Human rights organizations such as "Palestinian Center for Human Rights" and "Physicians for Human Rights" argue that Israel's accusations against ambulance workers were unsubstantiated and part of collateral damage, not intentional strikes.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some international actors believe there may have been misidentifications during combat, but the claims against ambulance workers are not conclusively supported.

Shifa Hospital

Agreement that Israel lied: International medical organizations and human rights groups argue that Shifa Hospital was a purely medical facility, and there was no evidence of Hamas using it for military purposes.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some believe that although Hamas may have used certain facilities in Gaza, there is no conclusive evidence to confirm the claim that Hamas was operating within Shifa.

Flour Massacre

Agreement that Israel lied: The claim of a flour massacre is widely regarded as a fabrication, and there are no solid sources backing it up.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: The claim is considered a rumor without credible evidence, and it is widely dismissed.

Accusations Against Hospitals in Gaza for Hamas Activities

Agreement that Israel lied: Health organizations like "International Committee of the Red Cross" and "Doctors Without Borders" state that Gaza's hospitals were purely medical institutions and were not used by Hamas for military purposes.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some analysts believe that while there may have been some military activity, there is no clear evidence that Gaza's hospitals were complicit in any Hamas operations.

Killing Women and Children with White Flags

Agreement that Israel lied: Many human rights groups, including the "Palestinian Center for Human Rights," report no verifiable evidence of Israel intentionally killing civilians waving white flags, calling these claims false or misleading.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some reports acknowledge tragic events involving civilians with white flags but argue that full details remain unclear.

Gaza Universities

Agreement that Israel lied: Educational organizations, including "UNESCO" and various humanitarian bodies, argue that Gaza's universities were destroyed without justification and that they were not involved in any military activity.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: There is no consensus, but some argue that universities may have been damaged due to their proximity to military operations rather than intentional targeting.

Attacks on Ahli and Indonesian Hospitals

Agreement that Israel lied: Many humanitarian organizations, including the "International Red Cross," state that these hospitals were civilian targets and there was no military justification for the attacks.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some recognize the strategic military context but argue that the attacks on hospitals were unjustified and disproportionately harmed civilians.

Killing Women in Church Shelters

Agreement that Israel lied: Reports from humanitarian organizations dismiss any intention by Israel to target women sheltering in churches, calling these claims unfounded.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some reports acknowledge that churches were affected, but there is no clear evidence that the targeting of civilians in churches was intentional.

Hostages Returning Pregnant

Agreement that Israel lied: No verifiable evidence has been provided to support the claim that hostages returned pregnant due to Hamas.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some sources acknowledge that reports may have been exaggerated but believe certain claims could have a basis.

Destroying Every Single Gazan University

Agreement that Israel lied: There is no evidence to substantiate the claim that every university in Gaza was destroyed on purpose, and many organizations argue that the destruction was largely due to military operations.

Claims that Israel told the truth or the truth lies somewhere in between: Some believe that the universities were hit by collateral damage during military operations rather than intentionally targeted.

Edited April 6 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

Ok after asking it to summarize the findings I have to admit that the foreign resources agreed that Israel lied in most of the cases but still 11 of them are highly controversial.

Edited April 6 by Nivsch

[gambler]

This is pure AI slop, let me go through it point by point:

Ambulance Workers: Israel lied. Said they were Hamas fighters. Then said they were unmarked vehicles. They were neither fighters, nor were their vehicles unmarked.

Shifa Hospital: There is no proof that Hamas was housing a command center. Israel lied. They created a propaganda video of an alleged nurse backing their allegations except she had a botched accent and the whole thing seemed staged. Israel deleted the video in a day. Israel lied.

Flour Massacre: Israel said that the people who died in the flour massacre, mostly died as a result of a stampede. It said its review of the incident shows that the IDF did not strike the crowd of Palestinians. It lied. Israeli forces fired on them.

The fact that chatGPT said the flour massacre is both a fabrication debunked by the international organizations, when no organization believes that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_massacre), and a rumor, is proof its convoluted response has absolutely nothing to do with anything in reality. This shows me that it doesn't have the data to be discussing these recent events, and is instead erring really hard. Since this is the case, I will stop here.

Edited April 6 by gambler

[Nivsch]

@gambler When the sources were solely against Israel, it referred to them as 'both sides' and vice versa.

In summary the post's author was mostly right - 85%+ agreement that Israel lied about 27 (~70%) of the points, but misleading (high controversy) on 11 (~30%) of them, so don't worry. Good night from here.

Edited April 7 by Nivsch

[gambler]

[gambler]

BiBi gaslighting the public.

Those who left in 1948 thinking they would be able to return to their homes when the war was over, found out the hard way.

But gee, I wonder why BiBi is pushing for them to flee 

Israel is the most disingenuous, dishonest, and unashamedly deceitful nation I've ever seen. Everything goes through a pipeline of deception.

Edited April 7 by gambler

[zazen]

Interesting but dark post from a US game theory POV

 https://x.com/evanwritesonx/status/1908798273097494890?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ

Acronyms: MIC = military industrial complex, FIC = financial industrial complex, GCC = gulf cooperation council / gulf states

”If I were the US, purely from a game theory perspective,

I’d be concerned watching the Middle East integrate into a unified front against my little pet project, Israel.

I’d see the UAE sidling up to Iran, the GCC patching things up with Qatar, and Saudi Arabia cozying up to Tehran through the sly hands of China and Russia,

shafting me out of the frame like a has-been actor.

I knew October 7, 2023 was the opening bell of a regional death match, a zero-sum battle pitting a newly united Middle East against my proxy state.

And I decided to sit back and let the chaos crown a winner.

But when Israel started failing to clean out those pesky Palestinians by the 2024 elections, I knew I had to face the music:

my golden goose was turning into rotting flesh.

So, I decide to amputate. I decided to divest.

Profitably, of course.

How?

Simple.

I’d short Israel like it’s a penny stock that's about to tank.
___

I’d turn Israel into my ultimate bargaining chip, a sacrificial pawn in my game.

I’d let them run wild, slaughtering Palestinians while racking up a cool $1 billion a day in war costs, for my MIC.

I’d watch their $50 billion economy choke under a $1 trillion liability, their cabinet implode into a circus of backstabbing clowns, and their global image fester like an open sore.

I’m divesting, after all, why not let it rot?

I’d slap a ceasefire on the table, to get approval from the GCC;

“I’m your new partner now, as promised, on board with the regional plan.”

I’d stonewall Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, and the whole Axis of Resistance, encouraging them to cool their jets while dangling a $40 billion Gaza rebuild and $15 billion in GCC aid as bait.

But I would simultaneously let Israel breach that ceasefire anyway. Because hey, that's extra bargaining chips for me. And I don't represent them. They're a bunch of genocidal Jews. I’d egg them on to overextend, to dig their own grave with every bomb.

I have to push just enough for no one to feel inclined to sabotage the regional plan. 

I need to hold both cards.

Afterall I am the MIC king. They can either stand down and trust the process, or set fire to the entire region by invading my proxy state.

Either way, if they stand down, then we proceed with the GCC's plan. If they escalate and storm in, it’s just more fuel for my fire and we can pick up where we left off. I’d park my FIC on the sidelines, let my MIC rake in the profits from the carnage, and watch the body count climb.

The more people die, the merrier; every corpse is another dollar in my pocket.

And no one’s going to pin it on me. The world already hates Israel and thinks they've got me on a leash.

Why waste that narrative when it’s free leverage?

And as for the GCC and their new shiny future plan for the region, 

I will signal to them; "I am still in charge. Israel is my asset. And I will let it burn itself out under my own volition, while we talk."

I know they're drooling for stability and for the establishment of a Palestinian state, but I’m not some charity case. I’m not handing it over on a silver platter. My British counterpart worked hard to colonize that region 70 years ago.

Plus, I’ve got China’s $50 billion trade deals breathing down my neck, and I need the GCC tethered to my orbit. I can't have any of them dictating terms. I need a head start in this new multipolar game.

So, I’d keep the threat of Palestinian extinction on the table, a grim little bargaining chip.

Israel’s my liability now, but I will milk it dry while it safeguards my negotiations with the GCC. Gaza’s $80 billion ruin is just Israel’s lifeblood hemorrhaging. Their economy is evaporating in the rubble, while my MIC cashes out $100 billion in arms sales.

Meanwhile, I’d let my FIC shift $50-$100 billion to the GCC winners, eyeing their $2 trillion jackpot. I’d outbid China and Russia, but only by keeping the pressure on the GCC through those Palestinian lives, because let’s be real, I have only Israel to lose in doing this and everything else to gain.

Yeah, they were an ally sure. It was nice while the profits lasted, but now I need to cut this colony loose. They weren't supposed to be there anyway.

It’s my perfect defection play.

I maximize my payoff while they eat the cost.

So I have to short Israel to the bone, extracting every last drop of value, $100 billion in MIC profits, $50 billion in GCC deals, before cutting the cord.

Business 101: when an asset turns toxic, you don’t just dump it; you strip it bare, increment by bloody increment. There's value to be drawn from every inch along the fall.

Israel is my toxic collateralized debt obligation.

So I have to make sure that when I finally discard Israel, it’ll be a hollowed-out shell, worthless trash for the GCC to pick over.

I’d hand it to them.

Palestinian lives are worthless to me. So I have to make sure Israel becomes just as worthless before I exchange it over.

The UAE and Saudi can carve up the scraps, in exchange for that $40 billion Gaza rebuild.

Then I’d reap the real prize: a fat slice of the GCC’s $500 billion oil wealth and $2 trillion prosperity.

That’s a steal, considering all they want is a Palestinian state. Which we stole from the outset.

Haha. Cheap ask to be fair.

Sure, I’ll deliver what the GCC want. But on my terms, at a glacial pace.

Every delay squeezes out more leverage, more profit.

The one thing that's an absolute certainty, is that there’s no scenario where I don’t spin Israel’s collapse as my triumph. 

And Netanyahu?

He’s just the perfect symbol for this bloody chapter’s end. I’d pin this godforsaken, brutal, genocidal mess squarely on his crumbling cabinet. As they organically disintegrate, ripping each other apart in a frenzy of blame,

I’d step in, pushing a new chapter of peace and prosperity. 

I’d orchestrate it so I look like an absolute saint, the benevolent hand guiding the region to salvation while the cabinets corpse swings in the wind.

Once the smoke clears, I am going to pivot hard. My MIC will feast on Europe’s paranoia, new markets, new wars, while my FIC chases the Middle East’s reconstruction goldmine, hotels, ports, refineries.

I’d wrap it up with a $350 billion return on investment.

My image?

Spotless.

I’d be the saint who “stabilized” the region, the magnanimous victor who tamed the chaos.

Israel?

They’d be the villain everyone already despises, a discarded shell I timed to perfection.

This is my way out.

Because I can see a new game that's forming. 

And I have to be part of the group that's rewriting the rules while I burn the old board behind me.”

Edited April 7 by zazen

[gambler]

 

Edited April 9 by gambler

[Raze]

 

[Hatfort]

Big guest in Bad Hasbara, Gabor Mate.

Talks about Jewish trauma then and now, and total rejection of the current genocide of Palestinians and all that has been done to them for decades.

[Twentyfirst]

 

[Leo Gura]

Netanyahu is such a Frank Underwood character. One for one.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Leo Gura

[chess_king]

On 4/6/2025 at 2:19 PM, Nivsch said:

Of course rape occurred. Even if it exaggerated in some Israeli reports, hamas’s actions were barbaric, medieval, and far from anything resembling legitimate “resistance" and nothing you say will change that.

There were no rape wake up don't get delusional by the media , ask the hostages 

[BlessedLion]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Netanyahu is such a Frank Underwood character. One for one.

 

An insult to Frank Underwood. He never bombed and starved children