Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Twentyfirst]

Hasbara

[Lila9]

This is an interesting thread and I value the attempt to penetrate the delusions of what you call the “Zionist project”. This is interesting to view ourselves from a different perspective.

A truthful gaze at any aspect of human existence is what humanity collectively needs the most. 

I have watched some of the content and I can understand the backlash that Israel receives, to some extent. But it appears that this thread is an echo chamber of convincing those who are already convinced. This thread is a big bias confirmation pool.
 
This thread gives the impression that the Palestinian perspective is intact of delusions, corruption, manipulation.

One may have been heavily manipulated by the Palestinian point of view but he will never know that. 

[Lila9]

Just now, gambler said:

All the pro Palestinian people here believe Israel has a right to exist and accepted by its neighbors. All of us condemn the terrorism of Hamas. We all believe in the right of Jews to live with dignity and the freedom to live non-violently. None of the pro Israel crowd here gives two sheckels about Palestinian suffering. The entire time this conflict went on, they kept trying to detract and minimize the suffering inflicting. But of course, we’re heavily manipulated it seems. 

It’s not what appears in the comments. I have read them and was horrified by the level of hatred towards Israel and the lack of genuine willingness to understand, whether direct or subtle. If this is the vibe, the responses from the pro-Israel perspective will naturally be more defensive because they feel attacked.

The Palestinian suffering matters, and if you ask me personally, it matters to me a lot. But it’s not easy. If you are an Israeli living in Israel for a while, who has either survived or experienced terror attacks by Palestinians, or lost someone you know because of a terror attack by a Palestinian, when you see Palestinians celebrating the October 7 attacks or any terror attacks on Israelis, you naturally associate Palestinians with fear of death and loss of your security. From this place, it’s difficult to empathize with them, because of fear. The fear of death is huge. It’s difficult to be more empathetic to the suffering of those who hurt you than to your own suffering and the suffering of your people, family, and community.

If you ask a Palestinian, “Do you empathize with the suffering of Israelis, who lost their innocent loved ones in terror attacks, have seen their parents or children killed by Hamas terrorists in the most brutal ways, or some radicalized Palestinian boys, were captured by Hamas, or know someone dear to them who was captured by Hamas?” would they find it easy or difficult to empathize with the suffering of Israelis?

They would very likely find it difficult to empathize with Israelis, especially if they or their families experienced any hurt from Israelis. And you would 100% understand them, and you would be correct to do so.

Because it is only human to find it difficult to empathize with those who have hurt you, misled you, and proved you wrong.

It would be wrong to expect sainthood from people who have been hurt, whether they are Israelis or Palestinians. Humans, at their core, are very similar to each other. We are very myopic and shortsighted because of survival.

So why doesn’t the same standard apply to Israelis, who are heavily traumatized by what you see as the “Palestinian resistance”?

We are a traumatized nation. Whether it’s by the long Jewish history of persecution or by the terror Israelis experienced on this land. Could you understand that? I am not saying that justifies any killings of innocent Palestinians, definitely not. but when you are traumatized to your core, it is difficult to acknowledge the suffering of others because you yourself are in pain and fear and in defense mode. You need to make some effort, do some work, and find some healing in order to recognize the suffering of your enemy and seek solutions.

I say “enemy,” and I don’t really mean it because Palestinians are not my enemies, not our enemies in the absolute sense. They are actually our family. Like any other nation, we are all part of the huge human family.

I want them to see Jews as their lost family and to seek reconciliation rather than destruction. I want them to channel their rage in a productive way to prosper. I want to see their children reach adulthood and live long lives without dying early by becoming martyrs. I want them to have a resistance, because they deserve it, but the kind that doesn’t celebrate the death of innocents or follow an Islamic ideology to liberate a piece of stone (Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem).

Maybe then it would be much more easier to Israelis to see them and to empathize with their suffering, and the tragedy of נכבה. Because then, we wouldn’t be in a constant defense mode.  And it would be also more difficult to our leaders to manipulate us using fear because we will see in our eyes that Palestinians have no intentions to harm us. Which unfortunately isn’t the case now, especially after the October 7.

I often feel like the pro-Palestinian perspective justifies their low-consciousness behavior and accepts their dysfunctionality simply because they believe they are right.

It’s like a mother allowing a child, whose toy was stolen, taken, sold, or suddenly disappeared, to hurt himself and others in his rage simply because he is right. without attempting to guide him to channel his rage in a productive manner, toward healing and prosperity, and into a better adulthood.

 

 

[Raze]

 

Edited January 18 by Raze

[Raze]

45 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

I often feel like the pro-Palestinian perspective justifies their low-consciousness behavior and accepts their dysfunctionality simply because they believe they are right.

But you could make the same argument about Israelis.

In a 1998 poll 76% of Israelis believed shabeh was torture, but only 27% were against its use on Palestinians 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40358554

After a video was released showing six IDF using a metal Rod to gang rape a palestinian prisoner, multiple Israeli politicians expressed support for the soldiers and Israeli’s protested to free them after their arrest, a poll later found 65% of Israeli’s didn’t want the rapists criminally prosecuted 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2q07kd3ld6o

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/08/65-of-israeli-jews-oppose-criminal-prosecution-for-soldiers-suspected-of-raping-palestinian-detainees/

and 59% of Israelis say social media posts expressing sympathy for Palestinian civilians should not be allowed 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/08/26/many-israelis-say-social-media-content-about-the-israel-hamas-war-should-be-censored/

And when a IDF soldier shot a Palestinian teenager in the back he was honored with a medal

https://archive.ph/ry9kG

Quote

Flashback: Friday morning, July 3, 2015, Qalandiyah checkpoint in the West Bank. The traffic moves slowly. A Palestinian teenager approaches the car of Binyamin Brigade commander Col. Yisrael Shomer, hurls a large rock into the windshield and flees. No one was hurt. The future honorary doctor's blood boils; he gets out of his car and gives chase.

The brigade commander fires three bullets from a range of six to seven meters into the back of the fleeing boy, who falls bleeding and dies soon afterward in the hospital. The death penalty for throwing a rock. Before speeding away, the brigade commander took the time to turn over his victim's body with his foot to check his condition, the way one turns over a dead animal, without calling for medical help.

Or in 2015 when Israelis fire bombed a home of Palestinian civilians killing an 18 month old named Ali and his two parents

Then when Ali’s grandfather was leaving the Court Israelis chanted at him

Quote

"Where's Ali? There's no Ali. Ali is burned. On the fire. Ali is on the grill"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duma_arson_attack

then Israelis had a wedding celebrating it where the current police minister was present

Quote

In December 2015, Israeli police began investigating a video of a Jewish wedding in Jerusalem celebrating the marriage of a person known to have been involved in price tag attacks, in which guests are shown stabbing a photo of the toddler, Ali Dawabsheh, who had died in the Duma arson attack. The same video contained scenes of guests, armed with guns, knives and Molotov cocktails, chanting a song with the words from the book of Judges (16:28), "O God, that I may be this once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes", replacing "Philistines" with "Palestinians".[77] A lawyer for the defendants in the case, Attorney Itamar Ben-Gvir, now Minister of National Security, was also present and later said "No one realized these were photos of a member of the Dawabsheh family" - talking of the toddler photo which was stabbed and then burnt by wedding guests. Such scenes are reported to be typical of many such weddings.

 

Edited January 18 by Raze

[Lila9]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

But you could make the same argument about Israelis.

In a 1998 poll 76% of Israelis believed shabeh was torture, but only 27% were against its use on Palestinians 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40358554

After a video was released showing six IDF using a metal Rod to gang rape a palestinian prisoner, multiple Israeli politicians expressed support for the soldiers and Israeli’s protested to free them, a poll later found 65% of Israeli’s didn’t want the rapists criminally prosecuted 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2q07kd3ld6o

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/08/65-of-israeli-jews-oppose-criminal-prosecution-for-soldiers-suspected-of-raping-palestinian-detainees/

and 59% of Israelis say social media posts expressing sympathy for Palestinian civilians should not be allowed 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/08/26/many-israelis-say-social-media-content-about-the-israel-hamas-war-should-be-censored/

And when a IDF soldier shot a Palestinian teenager in the back he was honored with a medal

https://archive.ph/ry9kG

 

It is cruel to rape anyone, no matter what they have done, and there is no justification for it. What those IDF individuals did was truly stupid and cruel.

Israelis were dramatically radicalized after October 7, no doubt. 

Yet, based on the statistics you’ve shared, 35% of Israelis do want the rapists to be criminally prosecuted, and 41% of Israelis do believe that social media posts expressing sympathy for Palestinians should be allowed.

If these surveys were conducted before October 7, the percentages were likely even higher.

What if we conducted the same survey in Gaza and the West Bank? What results might we receive? Can we expect the same level of empathy? Would it be lower or higher?

 

[RendHeaven]

27 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

It is cruel to rape anyone, no matter what they have done, and there is no justification for it. What those IDF individuals did was truly stupid and cruel.

I can't bring myself to demonize them because I kinda get it.

They're just as ugly as me. Except I got lucky with my environment.

It hurts twice as bad, empathizing with victim and victimizer simultaneously.

Every time I contemplate our human condition I'm picking up shattered fragments of my heart

[Whitney Edwards]

@Lila9 hey welcome 

[Lila9]

9 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

@Lila9 hey welcome 

Thank you ❤️

[Lila9]

41 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

I can't bring myself to demonize them because I kinda get it.

They're just as ugly as me. Except I got lucky with my environment.

It hurts twice as bad, empathizing with victim and victimizer simultaneously.

Every time I contemplate our human condition I'm picking up shattered fragments of my heart

I understand.

[Twentyfirst]

10 hours ago, Lila9 said:

 
This thread gives the impression that the Palestinian perspective is intact of delusions, corruption, manipulation.

One may have been heavily manipulated by the Palestinian point of view but he will never know that. 

Where were your grandparents or parents born? What about the grandparents or parents of your fellow Israeli friends. Where were they born?

Now ask Palestinians the same question 

 

Edited January 18 by Twentyfirst

[Raze]

 

[Raze]

 

[Raze]

 

[Raze]

 

 

Edited January 20 by Raze

[Twentyfirst]

 

[Twentyfirst]

 

[Twentyfirst]

Zionist trying to deny the right of return using word salad 

[Yimpa]

9 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

the right of return

The right have returned all right…

[Twentyfirst]

29 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The right have returned all right…

Using word salad