Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Topspin715]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

The quote you gave was just a statement, not an actual invasion.

You said the nakba was an escalation resulting of the invasion, so why did deir yassin happen prior to the invasion?

It was a threat of not just total war, but genocide, from an Arab leader in the wake of the holocaust.  The Arabs had already rejected the UN plan in 1947 that granted land to both the Arabs and Jews.  There had been violent exchanges in the past and it was very clear by that point that the conflict was not going to be resolved peacefully.

People twist their arguments against Israel and Jews to hold them to standards that they never hold any other groups to.  Their complaint is essentially that the Jews won the war and Arabs lost and fled, this was an inevitability of any serious conflict that couldn't be resolved peacefully.  Did you care so much when Assad used chemical weapons against Syrians?  Did you expect the Jews to simply lay down and be massacred after such a threat?

I'm not defending Deir Yassin, it was clearly an atrocity, but to be considered even slightly objective, you have to strive to apply the same standards to all humans.

[Twentyfirst]

21 minutes ago, Topspin715 said:

People twist their arguments against Israel and Jews to hold them to standards that they never hold any other groups to.

Ok victim. Nice job ignoring my posts destroying your arguments btw

[Topspin715]

14 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Ok victim. Nice job ignoring my posts destroying your arguments btw

You didn't destroy my arguments, but you don't seem to have much of an interest in either truth or justice, so you're not worth responding to.  It's pretty self evident from the style of your "arguments", responding to my logical post by calling me "victim", and comparing Israel to the Nazis because they use fear, that you are obviously anti-semitic.

I'm not here to win over anti-semites.  I'm here to encourage the actually open minded people to think more deeply and critically and see if I can learn something myself.  I'm not here to "destroy" or even win any arguments.  Your opinion just doesn't matter that much.

If you want to engage in actual discussion fine, but be warned that I'm not going to respond to additional trolling and provocation.

Edited January 13 by Topspin715

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, Topspin715 said:

You didn't destroy my arguments, but you don't seem to have much of an interest in either truth or justice, so you're not worth responding to.  It's pretty self evident by the style of your "arguments" and repeatedly calling me "victim", which doesn't mean anything.  If you want to have an actual discussion to seek deeper understanding, you are welcome, but I'm not here to "destroy arguments".  It's a waste of time because your opinion hardly matters.

Why do you keep saying the UN allowed Jews to come to palestine. Meanwhile the jews dont follow any UN laws?

I can assure you. You are 100 percent a weak ass victim. Cry about it 

Edited January 13 by Twentyfirst

[Topspin715]

2 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Why do you keep saying the UN allowed Jews to come to palestine. Meanwhile the jews dont follow any UN laws?

I can assure you. You are 100 percent a weak ass victim. Cry about it 

It was not just the UN that established a Jewish state, but also the Western powers, and the League of Nations.  International law is very complicated.

I would personally like to see the establishment of a legitimate body that actually enforces international law in a fair and even handed way, not subject to extreme politicization, but unfortunately that doesn't exist right now.  While the UN was at its maximum legitimacy at the end of WW2 and the establishment of the new world order, it was still very imperfect at the time and has since only waned in legitimacy.

The world still has not recovered from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the nation states that were put in its place are still barely legitimate.  Until those challenges are addressed, the state of nature will persist and the strong will rule over the weak.  This is a problem that requires the development of religious and global institutional solutions.  Unless you want to dismantle the nation state of Israel and let massive chaos and bloodshed ensue.

[Twentyfirst]

16 minutes ago, Topspin715 said:

It was not just the UN that established a Jewish state, but also the Western powers, and the League of Nations.  International law is very complicated.

I would personally like to see the establishment of a legitimate body that actually enforces international law in a fair and even handed way, not subject to extreme politicization, but unfortunately that doesn't exist right now.  While the UN was at its maximum legitimacy at the end of WW2 and the establishment of the new world order, it was still very imperfect at the time and has since only waned in legitimacy.

The world still has not recovered from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the nation states that were put in its place are still barely legitimate.  Until those challenges are addressed, the state of nature will persist and the strong will rule over the weak.  This is a problem that requires the development of religious and global institutional solutions.  Unless you want to dismantle the nation state of Israel and let massive chaos and bloodshed ensue.

Whats stopping every Israeli from getting on a plane and peacefully going to europe and then living scattered among the europeans? Just like they were before

[Topspin715]

2 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Whats stopping every Israeli from getting on a plane and peacefully going to europe and then living scattered among the europeans? Just like they were before

Why don't all the white people living in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia just get on a plane and go back to Europe?  It's just a stupid question.  If you want to tell the Jews to GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM, they literally originated from the Middle East.  The Ashkenazis appear to be white, due to some genetic mixing over 2,000 years, but the majority of their DNA is still Levantine.

This thread was created by Leo to red pill himself against mainstream US narratives.  This really barely scratches the surface of things in my opinion, but I'll let the thread return to that objective.

[Twentyfirst]

5 minutes ago, Topspin715 said:

Why don't all the white people living in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia just get on a plane and go back to Europe?  It's just a stupid question.  If you want to tell the Jews to GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM, they literally originated from the Middle East.  The Ashkenazis appear to be white, due to some genetic mixing over 2,000 years, but the majority of their DNA is still Levantine.

This thread was created by Leo to red pill himself against mainstream US narratives.  This really barely scratches the surface of things in my opinion, but I'll let the thread return to that objective.

Because what happened in US and Australia was hundreds of years ago. Not in this new world with UN laws that you keep mentioning. YOU brought up the UN. Did the UN give zionists permission to ethnically cleanse palestinians or just to split the land? Im not stupid enough to actually believe anything the UN says but if you want to play that game Israel breaks a lot of UN laws

There are two types of Jews. European traumatized zionist jews from the holocaust. And middle eastern Jews. Don't try to combine these two different groups 

Yes Leo created this thread against zionist deception. A huge zionist deception is Jews HAVE to live in Palestine. WHY? Whats stopping all the jews from just going to europe? 

Edited January 13 by Twentyfirst

[Twentyfirst]

 

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[Twentyfirst]

"Israel is so unsafe for Jews because of the savage Palestinians who won't let us genocide them. We are pure victims"

"Israel is the only safe place for Jews. Without it...we would die instantly through a mysterious vaporization out of nowhere"

 

[Topspin715]

21 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Because what happened in US and Australia was hundreds of years ago. Not in this new world with UN laws that you keep mentioning. YOU brought up the UN. Did the UN give zionists permission to ethnically cleanse palestinians or just to split the land? Im not stupid enough to actually believe anything the UN says but if you want to play that game Israel breaks a lot of UN laws

There are two types of Jews. European traumatized zionist jews from the holocaust. And middle eastern Jews. Don't try to combine these two different groups 

Yes Leo created this thread against zionist deception. A huge zionist deception is Jews HAVE to live in Palestine. WHY? Whats stopping all the jews from just going to europe? 

Your argument is that Israel should be held to a different standard because Jews started to settle in the Middle East 150 years ago instead of 250 years ago for other European settlements?  Where do you draw the line?  160 years?  It's just stupid.

There are more than "two types of Jews" but nearly a million Mizrahi (Middle Eastern) Jews were pushed out of their countries after 1948 which is more than the estimated 700k Arabs.

Why does anybody HAVE to live anywhere?  You are clearly arguing for ethnic cleansing of Jewish people from Israel while I don't support the ethnic cleansing of Arabs.  I don't know what your background is so I can't discern the reasons for your motivations, but you are clearly coming from a place of hatred against Jews.

[Topspin715]

34 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

 

A lot of these videos that you are posting come from the most extreme fringe of the fringe elements of Jewish fundamentalism.  There are only two sects of religious Judaism that are anti-Zionist, the Satmars and Neturei Karta, and in recent years the Satmar community has started to support Israel more.

It has always been this way but when you are vastly outnumbered, your enemies can easily cherry pick isolated cases, in this case the opinion of a single person's opinion, and make it seem like many Jews think that way.

I understand the desire to disillusion oneself of mainstream narratives, and seeking out opposite extreme propaganda might be a good way to do that, but it should be acknowledged that this is more extreme propaganda in its own right.

[Twentyfirst]

24 minutes ago, Topspin715 said:

A lot of these videos that you are posting come from the most extreme fringe of the fringe elements of Jewish fundamentalism.  There are only two sects of religious Judaism that are anti-Zionist, the Satmars and Neturei Karta, and in recent years the Satmar community has started to support Israel more.

It has always been this way but when you are vastly outnumbered, your enemies can easily cherry pick isolated cases, in this case the opinion of a single person's opinion, and make it seem like many Jews think that way.

I understand the desire to disillusion oneself of mainstream narratives, and seeking out opposite extreme propaganda might be a good way to do that, but it should be acknowledged that this is more extreme propaganda in its own right.

You can’t do wrong just because the Europeans do wrong. The Europeans are a warlike people, always have and always will be. Jews should know more than anyone how vicious they are. So because the Europeans killed the native Americans it’s okay for Jews to kill native Palestinians? Since the Germans had the Holocaust against the Jews it’s okay for the Jews to punish the Palestinians? 
 

You think that Americans and Canadians and Australians will get away with what they did? That story isn’t finished. Don’t underestimate the truth of the universe 

Did the settling stop 150 years ago or is it still continuing to this day?

The Jews that were “pushed” out of the Middle East were actually absorbed by Zionists to create a bigger populated Jewish ethno state 

No I was asking what’s stopping Jews from leaving? Since the deception is that Jews have to live there or else they won’t be safe. Which isn’t true and is just a deception. Which is what this thread is about.

What is it about Palestine that keeps Jews there anyway? The UN decision was 75 years ago. You don’t have to follow it. If land Why do you consider it an ethnic cleansing if you all voluntarily left

What does my background matter? I can’t have an option on Jews unless I’m a certain ethnicity?  

Why are you looking at the messengers of this video instead of the message?

Is it true that Israel is the only safe haven for Jews or not?

Sorry had to respond to both of your posts in one 

Edited January 13 by Twentyfirst

[Topspin715]

31 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Why are you looking at the messengers of this video instead of the message?

Is it true that Israel is the only safe haven for Jews or not?

Safe is a subjective term but it's completely unnecessary to justify Israel's existence.

To answer your question, no there is no other safe haven for Jews.  The US is not a safe haven.  The US closed its doors to Jewish immigration in the 1920s and 1930s.  Europe is not a safe haven.  There were pogroms in Europe even after WW2 ended.  Israel is a safe haven.  Still not necessary to justify it though. 

When you present such extreme arguments from extremists as legitimate, you assume the role of extremist yourself.  But like I said, I'm not here to dissuade you of your hatred.

Your arguments are inconsistent.  Humans are war-like and have been since before the dawn of civilization.  The Ottomans ruled through conquest and when they collapsed and were conquered, you expect them to somehow continue ruling over their territory?

We fortunately live in a relatively more peaceful world today but you can't ascribe the morality of 2025 to actions that took place more than a hundred years ago.  Somehow, humans need to learn to overcome our violent past.

 

Edited January 13 by Topspin715

[Nivsch]

13 hours ago, Topspin715 said:

A lot of these videos that you are posting come from the most extreme fringe of the fringe elements of Jewish fundamentalism

+1 ❤

Exactly. Certains videos have points to consider and to self reflect on, but the entire envelope of hidden assumptions encompasses the legit points in those videos often seems toxic and cringy to me, and I feel how much it is far from showing the reality of most sectors thinking in Israel.

Edited January 14 by Nivsch

[Topspin715]

If people want to discuss this more deeply, to think about actual solutions, I would be happy to do so.  I've already been thinking about this very hard for many years.

You really can't understand this conflict without doing a deep dive on the formation of national identities, the history of nation states, ethnogenesis, and the many conflicting fundamentalist views in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and maybe even some of the smaller Abrahamic sects.

To summarize what's been going on in Israel, the peace process has basically failed since 2000 and Israelis have increasingly given up hope of achieving a peaceful solution.  During times of chaotic conflict and struggle, the most extreme viewpoints tend to become energized and rise to the top, so the religious nationalists have become increasingly empowered.  There are still many Israelis and Zionists that want a peaceful two-state solution, but they are growing weaker and are being drowned out by extremists.  This is the case on both sides of the conflict as both populations are being radicalized.

This video about religious psychology in Dune is pretty helpful in understanding the power of cohesion in extreme religious groups.

 

[Leo Gura]

The Bibi Files documentary:

https://www.actualized.org/insights/the-bibi-files