Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

Meanwhile Israel’s entire history is filled with instances of provoking an attack followed by using it as an excuse to expand or punish civilians.

Don't even go there unless you wanna get banned. Leo will reverse it though.  So I guess your fine.  He's a Hitler lover. 

 

Edited October 25 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Don't even go there unless you wanna get banned. Leo will reverse it though.  So I guess your fine.  He's a Hitler lover. 

 

Multiple IDF generals and Israeli historians have themselves admitted this

[Gennadiy1981]

21 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Dude, stop projecting. Every jew like you wants to cry victim and claim antisemitism the moment you guys are held accountable for your ethnic cleansing in Palestine. The entire community is steeped in this victim level thinking, zero responsiblity, just wanting to cry about being persecuted and not looking at any reasons why they are in the situation they are in. No dude, I do not self hate that I am jewish and none of my identity is wrapped up in rejecting judaism nor is it associated with any issues from relatives mistreating me. In fact I cherish my American-Jewish roots and loved every moment associated with them growing up. I do not associate persecution with judaism which is what most Jews do. I don't like that I have to explain sometimes to people that I don't support Israel and bombing kids and killing thousands upon thousands of civilians and ethnically cleaning stolen land like the IDF has been doing shamelessly since the 1940s.

You are so lost in delusion you are not worth having a lengthy discussion with. I'm honestly surprised you found your way to this community. You believe you are entitled to steal land and ethnically cleans people from it who inhabited it longer than you by over a thousand years because your bible says you can. Just mirroring back your belief to you.

Thanks @Lyubov for such detail answer, I really appreciate it, you know what I appreciate so much in you, your honesty, I give you so much pride and respect for being so honest. I am deeply honest myself and I can truly appreciate someone being honest. By the way; you misunderstood about myself, I am not screaming victim hood, I am not complaining or kvetching, I am a very proud Jew who is very proud of my culture and my people and my land. 
 

I hear you, and I hear your point. See I am on the other hand have no shame or guilt. I am not crying that I want peace with Palestinians and compare to most Israelis who don’t want to give West Bank to Palestinians but cry that they do and give excuses. I am being flat, I want all of Israel and I also care for Palestinians to be happy in one of their Arab country. I say it open and I also do things to make sure Palestine will not be created inside Israel. But I am very blunt and very honest, what I say, I think and do is all and the same.

But I really appreciate your response, I truly do, cause compare to mainstream secular Jews, I will say something that is not so popular, but they do play game. I don’t play any game, I am blunt and starlight to the point. And what brought me to this community, is a deep spiritual thinking and completing. And one more thing, I hope you or anyone else gets me wrong. God forbid that you may think I hate Arabs. That is totally not true. I have deep respect for all humans and I love all humans. It’s just I know that unfortunately Jews and Arabs cannot coexist in one country no matter how we slice the cake, you can’t have two ethnicities running the show, it will eventually turn into a civil war. Compare to others, yes you may have people with racist beliefs. That does not apply to me, it’s religious issue that is at stake there. 

[Gennadiy1981]

12 hours ago, MrTruf said:

This is the only time I will address you.

I did not and will not engage you, that's why you weren't tagged. I was sharing my impressions with other forum members.

You are not worth a second of anyones time. You are only allowed to write this shit here as an example for others how incredibly blind one can get with his twisted ideology.  Every message you send only pushes people further away from the argument you're trying to make. Keep posting!

 

It's not working.

@MrTruf it’s always nice to hear from you. Welcome back by the way, I already figured out who you are, indeed you are returning member who was blocked on political forum. You think I forgot you? Besides we used to have good conversations back then. And remember you even ended up my friend. 
 

It’s ok I will keep your identity as a secret. It’s hidden with me. But nice try by the way and welcome back. 
 

and you know how I figured? It is because I do deep epistemological work and psychedelics my friend. 
 

[Lyubov]

9 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

how this align with the facts (and correct me if I'm wrong) that:
1) there was no country named Palestine here, it was always a land part of an empire (even under Jordanian and Egyptian control they were not given a country). Palestinians always lived under another's rule, so there is no difference for them if they live under Israel rule - and as we see today with Israel's 21% of Arab population that are pretty happy to live here.
2) Israelis accepted the UN decision for two states and only after The Arab countries tries to annihilate it a few times seized control of Gaza and West Bank and started the so called "Ethnic cleansing")
3) Zionists also accepted Peel commission plans that gave the Arabs 80% of the Land in 1937!
4)Israel were willing to Give Sinai back to Egypt, and withdraw from Gaza

1) You are right, there was no modern state of Palestine there, how countries and self determination are understood today was still forming then. The land was controlled by the British and then the Ottoman empire, but had native indigenous people (Palestinians) as the majority living on the land, since the roman empire. There even were indigenous jews who were a minority there and whose lineage went back to the roman empire. These are not to be confused with zionist jews who were Eastern European jews (Ashkenazi Jews) removed from Palestine by 2000 years, their entire lineage is based outside Palestine for 2000 years, 1000 in Europe alone. In what reasonable modern world does that give them a right to Palestine because their book tells them so? European refugees from WWII moved there during the Holocaust and Israel was largely allowed to stay due to pity from Truman and Russia as well as having a newly established ally state there after the British left. There are a lot of jews in the USA to lobby the US government foreign policy, that is democracy. I think it's pretty clear that the forming of a nation state is accepted and indigenous people have the right to determination if their history goes back thousands of years on a land. I do not see how modern European Jews can make a claim to land they are removed from by hundreds of generations. Since Israel was formed, jews from all over the middle east and world have since immigrated so it isn't just Ashkenazi Jews now. Some Arabs maybe are fine with living under Israel, there are millions in Gaza and the west bank who aren't and want to return to the land taken from them. 

2) Arab countries then did not accept the UN resolution and Israel because it was freshly stolen land. Why would they negotiate with people who clearly took their land? Why should they yield? Time has changed things since then so totally dismantling and getting rid of Israel is not feasible now. And relations with Jordan and Egypt helped move towards a two state solution but the powerful 10%+ of radical nationalists in Israel do not allow for this to occur. They kill any politicians that come to the table.

3) Again, Arab leaders did not want their land divided, they were under no obligation to just allow territory of theirs carved off. Do I think there could of been a more welcoming stance towards refugees and a protection of minorities under Arab rule there? Sure. 

4) Ok, now west bank, east Jerusalem, Golan heights and all other territories, plus the dismantling of the system/blockade that has made gaza and these Palestinian places an open air prison 

[Lyubov]

51 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Thanks @Lyubov for such detail answer, I really appreciate it, you know what I appreciate so much in you, your honesty, I give you so much pride and respect for being so honest. I am deeply honest myself and I can truly appreciate someone being honest. By the way; you misunderstood about myself, I am not screaming victim hood, I am not complaining or kvetching, I am a very proud Jew who is very proud of my culture and my people and my land. 
 

I hear you, and I hear your point. See I am on the other hand have no shame or guilt. I am not crying that I want peace with Palestinians and compare to most Israelis who don’t want to give West Bank to Palestinians but cry that they do and give excuses. I am being flat, I want all of Israel and I also care for Palestinians to be happy in one of their Arab country. I say it open and I also do things to make sure Palestine will not be created inside Israel. But I am very blunt and very honest, what I say, I think and do is all and the same.

But I really appreciate your response, I truly do, cause compare to mainstream secular Jews, I will say something that is not so popular, but they do play game. I don’t play any game, I am blunt and starlight to the point. And what brought me to this community, is a deep spiritual thinking and completing. And one more thing, I hope you or anyone else gets me wrong. God forbid that you may think I hate Arabs. That is totally not true. I have deep respect for all humans and I love all humans. It’s just I know that unfortunately Jews and Arabs cannot coexist in one country no matter how we slice the cake, you can’t have two ethnicities running the show, it will eventually turn into a civil war. Compare to others, yes you may have people with racist beliefs. That does not apply to me, it’s religious issue that is at stake there. 

Fair enough, I completely disagree with you and I believe you will be remembered as an ethnic cleanser, not too different from Nazis or the conquest of the Americas in the history books, but I could be wrong, and you are entitled to your beliefs and what you think should happen. I will not try to change your mind. 

Edited October 25 by Lyubov

[Gennadiy1981]

10 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Fair enough, I completely disagree with you and I believe you will be remembered as an ethnic cleanser, not too different from Nazis or the conquest of the Americas in the history books, but I could be wrong, and you are entitled to your beliefs and what you think should happen. I will not try to change your mind. 

Thank you for the compliment. And that’s fine, you have your views and I have mine. And that’s perfectly fine. We can respect each other views. What I will be remembered as? Tell you the truth, I really could care less. As I keep saying, I would rather have strong Israel hated by the entire world than Auschwitz that would be loved by. 
I am here to appease Almighty and not humans because at the end of the day I will be judged by Him and not by humans. So yes this is my stance and belief. 

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you realize how absurd you sound to say that Israel funded and planned the killing of its own women and children to justify it's own expansion?  You really believe that?

The Second Chechen war which lead to Russia fully annex Chechnya back into Russia after it had gained its temporary independence after winning the first Chechen war, was caused by a series of bombings in Russian apartment buildings. Up to 600 Russians were killed.

These attacks were blamed on Chechen terrorists and it gave Russia the necessary excuse to go invade again.

Although never confirmed, there is a lot of evidence that it was an inside job done by the Russian secret service.

If Russia can do this, so can Israel.

In the case of Israel perhaps they let them invade them on purpose by lowering their guard then made the situation worse by using their Hannibel doctrime (confirmed by Haerz)

Personally I do not have an opinion whether Israel let it happen intentionally but I would not be suprised if they did.

Especially their current fascist government with Bibi on top.

[MrTruf]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

So whether I am awake or not is irrelevant.  

You most certainly are not. It's relevent because you are a liar, and this provides context for others choosing to communicate with you.

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

 He's a Hitler lover. 

 

You are a sick man.

 

[Leo Gura]

Cool it down and don't derail this thread please.

[Nemra]

 

[Etherial Cat]

7 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Thank you for the compliment. And that’s fine, you have your views and I have mine. And that’s perfectly fine. We can respect each other views. What I will be remembered as? Tell you the truth, I really could care less. As I keep saying, I would rather have strong Israel hated by the entire world than Auschwitz that would be loved by. 
I am here to appease Almighty and not humans because at the end of the day I will be judged by Him and not by humans. So yes this is my stance and belief. 

I don’t see the strong Israel you are describing. Instead, I observe a diplomatically weakened Israel, facing prosecution for war crimes by the International Court of Justice and surrounded by neighboring states that are deeply hostile to its political agenda for reasons too complex to detail here.

If you equate strength with the ability to survive in a militarized golden cage, heavily subsidized by a foreign imperial power, then I understand your perspective. However, this approach resembles cutting off the head of a hydra, only to have two more emerge in its place. Each criminal act inflicted upon the indigenous population generates a rightful and natural sense of injustice regarding the attacks on the human dignity of the Palestinian people. These actions stand in stark contrast to the ideals of a project supported by Western nations to prevent atrocities like the Holocaust from ever happening again, ultimately eroding the goodwill and sympathy that many can have for Israel. What is happening in Gaza is a shame, that should move any person who took actual lessons from WW II to its core.

Contrary to what you seem to suggest, there is a strong desire for a peaceful resolution to this conflict, which extends far beyond just the Israelis and Jews, and the Palestinians and Arabs. This situation is a drama that affects all of humanity, damaging our global sense of safety and fostering a bitter sense of collective insanity and human brutality that impacts the human experience as a whole.

The desire for human dignity for Palestinians extends to every Jewish and Israeli person in the hearts of most reasonable individuals. So spare us the justifications for the actions of the government you seem to be supporting, which are rooted in the fear of "a second Auschwitz because everyone hates us." No one here wants Jews or Israelis to live in fear. I know many wonderful people who happen to be Israeli or Jewish, and I will always defend their right to integrity and dignity.

Israelis carry a significant burden of improperly addressed intergenerational traumas related to fear of abuse and annihilation. One of the worst things that can happen to such a traumatized nation is to be forced to live in the chaos created by Netanyahu's and the likes supposed strength policies—policies characterized by compulsory military service, perpetual war, and the establishment of nearby ghettos. This situation is disastrous.

Moreover, I am not even addressing the horror of having to heal from the wounds of being subjected to terrible acts of abuse, only to realize that similar acts of abuse have been perpetrated by the very state that was supposed to rise above such actions.

My heart aches for the future generations who will have to clean up the mess created by such a high level of self-deception and rule of the unconscious.

Children, women, innocents men are being randomly killed at the very moment.

There is no strength in this, only collective madness.

[Etherial Cat]

@Lyubov

I admire your integrity. 

Makes me think of this quote from Dumbledore in Harry Potter: It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to your enemies; but a great deal more to stand up to your friends.

I'm not sure whether you'd be comfortable calling them all friends, but you get what I mean with this.

Since the thread is named understanding Israel deception, what do you think helped you remaining critical of Israel?

[Nivsch]

@Etherial Cat I agree with your stance about the Israeli governemnt and its ignorant way it manages the conflict in the big picture especially in West Bank areas.

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

only to realize that similar acts of abuse have been perpetrated by the very state that was supposed to rise above such actions

I would be careful with such equatings since intentions, circumstances, conditions and enemy clever strategics are parameters that have to not be overlooked. This government behaved in severe ways for sure, but this isn't as severe as the thing that brought it to do so in the first place if we take all the parameters above into account.

Edited October 25 by Nivsch

[Raze]

 

[Raze]

44 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

 

I would be careful with such equatings since intentions, circumstances, conditions and enemy clever strategics are parameters that have to not be overlooked. This government behaved in severe ways for sure, but this isn't as severe as the thing that brought it to do so in the first place if we take all the parameters above into account.

What brought it to do so in the first place was the already brutal violence on civilians in the West Bank occupation and mass violence in bombardments and collective punishment of the Gaza blockade.

It did not start on Oct 7. Even if we assume so about 800 civilians died on Oct 7, (it is unclear how many were killed by IDF implementing the Hannibal directive). Which is much less severe than how Israel has killed nearly 700 civilians in the West Bank, at least 25,000 in Gaza (based on their own numbers, the reality is likely double or triple), and nearly 2,000 civilians in Lebanon.

Edited October 25 by Raze

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

What brought it to do so in the first place was the already brutal violence on civilians in the West Bank occupation

I don't buy this theory at all.

hamas, similar to Hezbollah have both, leaded by Iran's regime, planned an oct7 style attack.

What bothers them is the mere existence of a different ethnically defined state in their region.

Stage Red gains its life meaning and motivation from its expansionist desires.

They don't need an oppression to want that and I would even think those Red extremists are the least sensitive to oppressions forced on them, because their whole life motivation isn't so much about liberty or good conditions but about running forward to more domination.

Ask the Far Right wingers of Israel and they will say to you the same thing.

Oppression can get the terror of oct7 to be more severe only to some degree than it could be, but it isn't the root cause of it.

Edited October 25 by Nivsch

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Oppression can get the terror of oct7 to be more severe to some degree than it could be, but not the root cause of it.

Hamas radicalized in response to Israel mass killing peaceful protestors during the second intifada, and Hezbollah formed in response to Israel supporting mass killing of civilians in Sabra and Shatilla and later occupying Lebanon.

[Vercingetorix]

6 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

I don’t see the strong Israel you are describing. Instead, I observe a diplomatically weakened Israel, facing prosecution for war crimes by the International Court of Justice and surrounded by neighboring states that are deeply hostile to its political agenda for reasons too complex to detail here.

If you equate strength with the ability to survive in a militarized golden cage, heavily subsidized by a foreign imperial power, then I understand your perspective. However, this approach resembles cutting off the head of a hydra, only to have two more emerge in its place. Each criminal act inflicted upon the indigenous population generates a rightful and natural sense of injustice regarding the attacks on the human dignity of the Palestinian people. These actions stand in stark contrast to the ideals of a project supported by Western nations to prevent atrocities like the Holocaust from ever happening again, ultimately eroding the goodwill and sympathy that many can have for Israel. What is happening in Gaza is a shame, that should move any person who took actual lessons from WW II to its core.

Contrary to what you seem to suggest, there is a strong desire for a peaceful resolution to this conflict, which extends far beyond just the Israelis and Jews, and the Palestinians and Arabs. This situation is a drama that affects all of humanity, damaging our global sense of safety and fostering a bitter sense of collective insanity and human brutality that impacts the human experience as a whole.

The desire for human dignity for Palestinians extends to every Jewish and Israeli person in the hearts of most reasonable individuals. So spare us the justifications for the actions of the government you seem to be supporting, which are rooted in the fear of "a second Auschwitz because everyone hates us." No one here wants Jews or Israelis to live in fear. I know many wonderful people who happen to be Israeli or Jewish, and I will always defend their right to integrity and dignity.

Israelis carry a significant burden of improperly addressed intergenerational traumas related to fear of abuse and annihilation. One of the worst things that can happen to such a traumatized nation is to be forced to live in the chaos created by Netanyahu's and the likes supposed strength policies—policies characterized by compulsory military service, perpetual war, and the establishment of nearby ghettos. This situation is disastrous.

Moreover, I am not even addressing the horror of having to heal from the wounds of being subjected to terrible acts of abuse, only to realize that similar acts of abuse have been perpetrated by the very state that was supposed to rise above such actions.

My heart aches for the future generations who will have to clean up the mess created by such a high level of self-deception and rule of the unconscious.

Children, women, innocents men are being randomly killed at the very moment.

There is no strength in this, only collective madness.

Ah yes, the innocent green perspective that we've all bee part of in the past, until reality of the middle woke us up. But as it happened to us,  You'll probably only understand once it gets to Europe and you have to fight for your life. 

[Bobby_2021]

Deception of the death count.