Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Nivsch]

12 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

Zionists also accepted Peel commission plans that gave the Arabs 80% of the Land in 1937!

And the Arabs rejected it?

[Nivsch]

29 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Nivsch, how could there be a two-state solution if the government doesn't want to stop the settlements?

You are right this is the problem 😶‍🌫️

[Nemra]

5 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

1) there was no country named Palestine here, it was always a land part of an empire (even under Jordanian and Egyptian control they were not given a country).

There was no country named Israel either.

6 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

Palestinians always lived under another's rule, so there is no difference for them if they live under Israel rule

Why do you think the Palestinians got upset if there was no difference?

[bambi]

On 23/10/2024 at 4:11 PM, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to control everyone like that.

For the most part this thread has been quite on-the-rails and calm.

This is a very controversial issue which gets people agitated. So considering that, we're doing good here.

Do you honestly believe Hamas and most palistinians have engaged in 'good faith' negotiations  and  they that don't include the return of their refugees? I mean literally every protest in the past year the main slogan is 'From the river to the sea palestine will be free' lol. Its almost sattire to insinuate they are good faith

In your view its Israel destroying any hope of peace by their irrationality in the face of hamas and palistentina rationality?

The fact their president got asessinated during their previous peace deals shows that there exists both extremists , moderates and progessives in Israel. Their president died trying to solve this issues.

I cant see how you are taking such a categorical view on the situation

[Nemra]

The following video is enlightening, so I felt compelled to post it, although Leo has already posted it.

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Nemra

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You are right this is the problem 😶‍🌫️

Do most Israelis support the settlements? What would you say is the proportion on Israel that supports it?

 

[Inliytened1]

@Flim my spirituality and metaphysical or spiritual views (which by the way are a result of direct experience and meditation) really have nothing to do with relative matters such as this. So whether I am awake or not is irrelevant.  

But all that aside..I'm not per se defending "zionism" or the way Israel is behaving.  I'm basically presenting an alternate perspective in order to bring more balance to the atmosphere here.   You see, there appears to be a deep bias against Israel on this forum and that's mainly because what's happening there is current events.  So yeah let's examine this because it's current but also we have to zoom out and explore the larger phenomenon of survival as a whole.   Because while it seems like Israel is committing all of these atrocities, and they are, it's naive to think that other nations wouldn't do the same given their current level of development.   And unfortunately if there was a spiral dynamics tier 2 nation they would be eaten alive in today's world.   Israel has been the nice guy in the past and look where it got them.   So it's important to keep a balanced perspective because when you get a demonization of one nation then you end up being the devil yourself.  And this doesn't help anyone.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Nemra]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Israel has been the nice guy in the past and look where it got them.

Why do you think that?

Edited October 24, 2024 by Nemra

[Raze]

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Raze

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Why do you think that?

What I mean by that is the Jewish people as a whole.  If they didn't do what they had to do they wouldn't have their own state and a powerful military, etc.  They probably wouldn't even exist at all.   What I think their goals are here is not genocide but it is to preserve their nation.  Which they took by force.  The US gained indendence from the British by force and so it goes on and on.  Do you think if the roles were reversed and Hamas ends up being victorious that they would leave a place for Jews in their government or land.   Possibly but most likely no, because of what others mentioned earlier - the religious differences, etc.  

[Raze]

 

[Nemra]

@Inliytened1, do you know why resistance groups were formed?

28 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you think if the roles were reversed and Hamas ends up being victorious that they would leave a place for Jews in their government or land.

Israel was founded only for Jews, FYI.

The leaders were too racist to have Palestinians as their slaves. Although, now Israeli Palestinians have rights but still limited.

Hamas doesn't have the same technology as IDF to show its inhumanity on a mass scale.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Nemra

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Inliytened1, do you know why resistance groups were formed?

Israel was founded only for Jews, FYI.

The leaders were too racist to have Palestinians as their slaves. Although, now Israeli Palestinians have rights but still limited.

 

Racist or protective?

23 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Inliytened1, Hamas doesn't have the same technology as IDF to show its inhumanity on a mass scale.

I know but have you asked any of them how they would be if the roles were suddenly reversed?  Maybe they would say they would be nice guys but would their leaders be?  The ones who had to protect them.  I love the movie Planet of the Apes because if you watch the series you literally watch Caesar become the devil - the very thing he fought to dispel.   He hated that but it was the world he existed in.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Nemra]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Racist or protective?

Racist.

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I know but have you asked any of them how they would be if the rules were suddenly reversed?

So, you start killing Palestinians to get rid of Hamas?

Even if Israel gets rid of all groups, they understand that new ones will get born to justify their expansion.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Nemra

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Nemra said:

So, you start killing Palestinians to get rid of Hamas?

 

That was wrong but Hamas purposely hid themselves among civilians to bait Israel.  And you also have the 1100 or whatever ( @Karmadhi will correct me here so I need to be careful)  Jews who were killed by the Palestinian backed group who wanted justice.  Did they think about that before attacking?  So they wanted to kill Jews to get rid the leadership.  Same thing.  And in fact they struck first.  Now you can claim that they are justified but violence is never justified. 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Nemra]

@Inliytened1, the Palestinian side has lost way more, and they are thought to be Hamas. Is that fair?

Is it fair to continue the settlements?

Was Nakba fair?

Edited October 24, 2024 by Nemra

[Inliytened1]

On 10/23/2024 at 0:13 AM, Lyubov said:

I’m sorry but it’s this victim mindset that has poisoned our people’s psyche for ages now. My great grandpa killed himself in captivity in Berlin. I know we were treated horribly. I know it was terrible what my family went through. But I value truth above all else. And I’m not going to spin some bullshit story and think me as a white European has claim to some land because some distant diaspora tale from some magical bible book says I do. It’s pure madness. You really believe because some European Jews interpreted their holy book saying they have the right to land FROM ROMAN TIMES 2000+ years ago that it’s ok to go in and remove the people who have indigenously lived there for over 2000 years?

 

I value Truth above all else too brother.  (Or sister - not sure please clarify)  

But I don't think they did it because they felt they were entitled because they were the chosen people.  They did it because they wanted  a place to call their own and so they had land to stake a claim and protect themselves from extinction.    They did what they had to do.  Is it wrong? Well i guess that depends on what perspective you look at it from. You believe in Absolute Truth above all else and I agree.  But you are assuming the Jewish people felt entitled.  They don't.  They just want to exist like everyone else.  And there are constant threats to that existence. 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

20 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Inliytened1, the Palestinian side has lost way more,

This is a losing argument for reasons i pointed out earlier.   The loss of one human being is an atrocity.  You cannot put a value on it so playing the humbers game is stupid.  Shoud Israel back off?  In my opinion yes but the thing is they killed a very powerful leader last week and if they back off now and go on the defensive it could cost them in this campaign.  The campaign has begun unfortunately.  And not by Israel.  Stopping it now will only be with surrender it seems.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Nemra]

@Inliytened1, unfortunately, Zionists knowingly have started this mess.

Israel had justifications before the recent killing.

[Inliytened1]

57 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Racist.

 

It's impossible to know what is in each leaders heart- is there malice there?  But I think as a whole they are simply trying to protect what is theirs  We already established that global dominance is not their end goal.  So to compare Netanyahu to Hitler i think is a bit premature.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Inliytened1