Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Nivsch]

2 minutes ago, Nemra said:

But how would the two-state solution become reality if settlers are still doing their job?

What do you mean by doing their job?

[Nemra]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

What do you mean by doing their job?

The settlement in the West Bank.

How would you stop them from doing that?

[Nivsch]

10 minutes ago, Nemra said:

The settlement in the West Bank.

How would you stop them from doing that?

The government need to not build there any more. I mean, this is up to a decision from above and the settlers themselves can do harmful things (the violent extremists among them) but not to physically build a neighborhood.

Edited October 24 by Nivsch

[Nemra]

@Nivsch, how could there be a two-state solution if the government doesn't want to stop the settlements?

Edited October 24 by Nemra

[Vercingetorix]

11 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Israel: A country founded on the belief that European refugees who suffered genocide and ethnic cleansing during WWII now have the right to build a state and commit genocide and ethnic cleansing because their magic book says they can. 

how this align with the facts (and correct me if I'm wrong) that:
1) there was no country named Palestine here, it was always a land part of an empire (even under Jordanian and Egyptian control they were not given a country). Palestinians always lived under another's rule, so there is no difference for them if they live under Israel rule - and as we see today with Israel's 21% of Arab population that are pretty happy to live here.
2) Israelis accepted the UN decision for two states and only after The Arab countries tries to annihilate it a few times seized control of Gaza and West Bank and started the so called "Ethnic cleansing")
3) Zionists also accepted Peel commission plans that gave the Arabs 80% of the Land in 1937!
4)Israel were willing to Give Sinai back to Egypt, and withdraw from Gaza

[Nivsch]

12 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

Zionists also accepted Peel commission plans that gave the Arabs 80% of the Land in 1937!

And the Arabs rejected it?

[Nivsch]

29 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Nivsch, how could there be a two-state solution if the government doesn't want to stop the settlements?

You are right this is the problem 😶‍🌫️

[Nemra]

5 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

1) there was no country named Palestine here, it was always a land part of an empire (even under Jordanian and Egyptian control they were not given a country).

There was no country named Israel either.

6 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

Palestinians always lived under another's rule, so there is no difference for them if they live under Israel rule

Why do you think the Palestinians got upset if there was no difference?

[bambi]

On 23/10/2024 at 4:11 PM, Leo Gura said:

It's hard to control everyone like that.

For the most part this thread has been quite on-the-rails and calm.

This is a very controversial issue which gets people agitated. So considering that, we're doing good here.

Do you honestly believe Hamas and most palistinians have engaged in 'good faith' negotiations  and  they that don't include the return of their refugees? I mean literally every protest in the past year the main slogan is 'From the river to the sea palestine will be free' lol. Its almost sattire to insinuate they are good faith

In your view its Israel destroying any hope of peace by their irrationality in the face of hamas and palistentina rationality?

The fact their president got asessinated during their previous peace deals shows that there exists both extremists , moderates and progessives in Israel. Their president died trying to solve this issues.

I cant see how you are taking such a categorical view on the situation

[Nemra]

The following video is enlightening, so I felt compelled to post it, although Leo has already posted it.

 

Edited October 24 by Nemra

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You are right this is the problem 😶‍🌫️

Do most Israelis support the settlements? What would you say is the proportion on Israel that supports it?

 

[Inliytened1]

@Flim my spirituality and metaphysical or spiritual views (which by the way are a result of direct experience and meditation) really have nothing to do with relative matters such as this. So whether I am awake or not is irrelevant.  

But all that aside..I'm not per se defending "zionism" or the way Israel is behaving.  I'm basically presenting an alternate perspective in order to bring more balance to the atmosphere here.   You see, there appears to be a deep bias against Israel on this forum and that's mainly because what's happening there is current events.  So yeah let's examine this because it's current but also we have to zoom out and explore the larger phenomenon of survival as a whole.   Because while it seems like Israel is committing all of these atrocities, and they are, it's naive to think that other nations wouldn't do the same given their current level of development.   And unfortunately if there was a spiral dynamics tier 2 nation they would be eaten alive in today's world.   Israel has been the nice guy in the past and look where it got them.   So it's important to keep a balanced perspective because when you get a demonization of one nation then you end up being the devil yourself.  And this doesn't help anyone.

Edited October 24 by Inliytened1

[Nemra]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Israel has been the nice guy in the past and look where it got them.

Why do you think that?

Edited October 24 by Nemra

[Raze]

 

Edited October 24 by Raze

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Why do you think that?

What I mean by that is the Jewish people as a whole.  If they didn't do what they had to do they wouldn't have their own state and a powerful military, etc.  They probably wouldn't even exist at all.   What I think their goals are here is not genocide but it is to preserve their nation.  Which they took by force.  The US gained indendence from the British by force and so it goes on and on.  Do you think if the roles were reversed and Hamas ends up being victorious that they would leave a place for Jews in their government or land.   Possibly but most likely no, because of what others mentioned earlier - the religious differences, etc.  

[Raze]

 

[Nemra]

@Inliytened1, do you know why resistance groups were formed?

28 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you think if the roles were reversed and Hamas ends up being victorious that they would leave a place for Jews in their government or land.

Israel was founded only for Jews, FYI.

The leaders were too racist to have Palestinians as their slaves. Although, now Israeli Palestinians have rights but still limited.

Hamas doesn't have the same technology as IDF to show its inhumanity on a mass scale.

Edited October 24 by Nemra

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Inliytened1, do you know why resistance groups were formed?

Israel was founded only for Jews, FYI.

The leaders were too racist to have Palestinians as their slaves. Although, now Israeli Palestinians have rights but still limited.

 

Racist or protective?

23 minutes ago, Nemra said:

@Inliytened1, Hamas doesn't have the same technology as IDF to show its inhumanity on a mass scale.

I know but have you asked any of them how they would be if the roles were suddenly reversed?  Maybe they would say they would be nice guys but would their leaders be?  The ones who had to protect them.  I love the movie Planet of the Apes because if you watch the series you literally watch Caesar become the devil - the very thing he fought to dispel.   He hated that but it was the world he existed in.

Edited October 24 by Inliytened1

[Nemra]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Racist or protective?

Racist.

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I know but have you asked any of them how they would be if the rules were suddenly reversed?

So, you start killing Palestinians to get rid of Hamas?

Even if Israel gets rid of all groups, they understand that new ones will get born to justify their expansion.

Edited October 24 by Nemra

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Nemra said:

So, you start killing Palestinians to get rid of Hamas?

 

That was wrong but Hamas purposely hid themselves among civilians to bait Israel.  And you also have the 1100 or whatever ( @Karmadhi will correct me here so I need to be careful)  Jews who were killed by the Palestinian backed group who wanted justice.  Did they think about that before attacking?  So they wanted to kill Jews to get rid the leadership.  Same thing.  And in fact they struck first.  Now you can claim that they are justified but violence is never justified. 

Edited October 24 by Inliytened1