Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Nemra]

12 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

We have our land thanks to God.

You should thank the Zionists.

15 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

God bless them and let them live happily among their brethren, or among your lands as well

Why not view them as your brethren?

[Gennadiy1981]

26 minutes ago, Nemra said:

You should thank the Zionists.

Why not view them as your brethren?

We thank God for it, see you don't understand our culture. Since we were exiled from Israel by Romans, for three times a day, for generations we prayed to return to Zion. This is something that was embedded in us. On every holiday and every joyous occasion we repeat the phrases to return to Zion. Just an example, we have a day of mourning which falls on Jewish Calendar the ninth of month of Av, where people mourn the destruction of our Temple back in 71 ACE. So a true story happened back in France under Napoleon rule that he was passing by Jewish community and he saw everyone were crying. He didn't want to disturb the mourners and when he passed by a second community he saw people crying as well, he thought that maybe some great leader passed away. But at the need of the day when he was passing his other province, he saw the same picture and asked to which the Rabbis explained to him. The Napoleon replied, "Those who can mourn such an event from so distant, will merit to see it rebuild"

When you say to view as our brethren, that can be applicable to any human. If you speak of Palestinian Arabs specifically, we differ everything with them. We differ in language, culture, religion, ethics, clothing, ideas and so much. We truly have nothing in common with them if that is your question. Again this is not by choice but they way humans are.

[Nemra]

@Gennadiy1981, I hope you understand that racism is like a boomerang. Experiencing antisemitism could also make Jews racist.

Also, there's a difference between identifying with from afar and living on the land.

You keep ignoring how Israel took the lands.

I know people who identify with a land that is currently not theirs and refuse to acknowledge the truth; otherwise, their identity would quickly crumble unless they continue to brainwash themselves, as their goal is to take back those lands.

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[bambi]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's also good to look at America's evils. Acknowledging Native American rights and genocide is also important. But it should not be used to distract from problems in the Middle East. Israel has been a huge inflammatory issue in the Middle East for 75 years now and it needs a resolution. America and Europe should certainly not be funding their evil.

What happened to American Natives was horrible, but today we have a peace and we are not bombing their towns and children nor trying to push them off their land. And if we are, then we should stop. We could also consider giving them some more land. The US Federal government owns like 60% of the land in the Western USA and much of it empty.

No one is seriously telling Israel to not exist or move back to Europe. That's a strawman. Palestinians & even Hamas will accept a peace deal where they are given decent land and settlers are permanently stopped. The issue is that Israel refuses to stop settlers. This is unacceptable and wrong.

American empire is a deeply problematic thing which we as Americans need to confront and stop denying, in the same way that Israelis are denying their colonialism. The real issue for America is not Native Americans, it's dismantling our military empire. And we can start by cutting off Israel.

Where are you getting this 'hamas will accept a peace deal if Israeli settlements stop' whats your sources here? Pretty much all palistiaen deals I have ever seen included the return of the original refugees back to Israel at best and full removal of Israel at worst, not merely Israeli settlements stopping

[Nemra]

The following is a must watch:

 

 

[Nivsch]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Hamas will accept a peace deal where they are given decent land and settlers are permanently stopped

If Israeli right wing want all the land, let alone that Palestinian's right wing will want all the land.

Edited October 22 by Nivsch

[Raze]

Just now, Nivsch said:

If Israeli right wing want all the land, there is not reason to assume Palestinian's right wing won't want all the land. hamas wants Tel Aviv and Haifa. An end to an oppression does not impress it.

Then they’ll lose support of Palestinians who now have a better option 

[Gennadiy1981]

2 hours ago, Nemra said:

@Gennadiy1981, I hope you understand that racism is like a boomerang. Experiencing antisemitism could also make Jews racist.

Also, there's a difference between identifying with from afar and living on the land.

You keep ignoring how Israel took the lands.

I know people who identify with a land that is currently not theirs and refuse to acknowledge the truth; otherwise, their identity would quickly crumble unless they continue to brainwash themselves, as their goal is to take back those lands.

I have no issue with my identity and our identity was before we return to Israel. Our identity was in a Bible, the more we kept the Bible, the more the Bible kept us. The Land is just one aspect of the Bible but not everything. I do not see your argument valid here.

As far as Racism, I mean look, anything that a human experience, probably will revert back to society, but that can be with nay topic. Look you have school shootings, they don't happen because of nothing, an individual probably was suppressed or bullied and its a reaction. 

We got the Land back fair and square. To begin the conversation, you assume that there was a country called Palestine and we just took it, fact is, Palestine as a country never existed, so we did not dismantle anything. Yes there were some cities where Arabs lived, but you heavily dismiss the idea that from other parts Jews were kicked out as well to make state for Arabs. You are only looking at one side and totally ignoring the other. 

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

Then they’ll lose support of Palestinians who now have a better option 

The far right wing of Israel doesn't care about the rest of Israelis and their well being or support, it cares about its ideology.

Edited October 22 by Nivsch

[Raze]

22 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

The far right wing of Israel doesn't care about the rest of Israelis and their well being or support, it cares about its ideology.

Because they benefit from expansion, the Palestinians wouldn’t. 

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

Because they benefit from expansion, the Palestinians wouldn’t. 

Why?

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Why?

Because Israelis have legal rights and are armed so they can defend themselves, so Palestinian attempts to expand would be too costly.

Currently Israelis expand because Palestinians are largely defenseless legally and militarily so they gain benefits by seizing their land.

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

Because Israelis have legal rights and are armed so they can defend themselves, so Palestinian attempts to expand would be too costly.

Currently Israelis expand because Palestinians are largely defenseless legally and militarily so they gain benefits by seizing their land.

If Palestinians get a sovereign state on 1967 lines, hamas and its supporters will try to get more and more land by terror attacks.

[Nemra]

46 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

We got the Land back fair and square.

It wasn't fair. But I know you would say others weren't fair against Jews.

42 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

To begin the conversation, you assume that there was a country called Palestine and we just took it, fact is, Palestine as a country never existed, so we did not dismantle anything.

It exists. If it didn't exist, then what is Israel doing for years?

45 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Yes there were some cities where Arabs lived, but you heavily dismiss the idea that from other parts Jews were kicked out as well to make state for Arabs. You are only looking at one side and totally ignoring the other. 

What can I say. Be racist without referring to school shooters.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

If Palestinians get a sovereign state on 1967 lines, hamas and its supporters will try to get more and more land by terror attacks.

How do you know that?

[Vercingetorix]

@Raze have you read their manifesto? 

From ChatGPT:

According to the original 1988 Hamas Charter, the group rejected any peaceful resolution or negotiation with Israel. It explicitly stated that all of historic Palestine, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Islamic land that cannot be compromised. The charter framed the conflict as a religious obligation, emphasizing armed struggle (jihad) as the only means to liberate Palestine and eliminate Israel.

However, in 2017, Hamas issued a new political document that marked a shift in its rhetoric. This document accepted the idea of a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders (the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem) as a temporary solution, though without recognizing Israel's right to exist. While this new stance suggests a more pragmatic approach, Hamas has maintained its commitment to the long-term goal of "liberating all of Palestine" and continues to refuse formal negotiations with Israel.

In essence, while the 2017 document hinted at a potential openness to limited compromise, Hamas has not officially recognized Israel or expressed willingness to negotiate a permanent peace agreement.

[Raze]

26 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

@Raze have you read their manifesto? 

From ChatGPT:

According to the original 1988 Hamas Charter, the group rejected any peaceful resolution or negotiation with Israel. It explicitly stated that all of historic Palestine, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea, is Islamic land that cannot be compromised. The charter framed the conflict as a religious obligation, emphasizing armed struggle (jihad) as the only means to liberate Palestine and eliminate Israel.

However, in 2017, Hamas issued a new political document that marked a shift in its rhetoric. This document accepted the idea of a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders (the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem) as a temporary solution, though without recognizing Israel's right to exist. While this new stance suggests a more pragmatic approach, Hamas has maintained its commitment to the long-term goal of "liberating all of Palestine" and continues to refuse formal negotiations with Israel.

In essence, while the 2017 document hinted at a potential openness to limited compromise, Hamas has not officially recognized Israel or expressed willingness to negotiate a permanent peace agreement.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/middleeast/hamas-officials-say-group-willing-to-disarm-if-palestinian-state-is-established-mime-intl/index.html

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, bambi said:

'hamas will accept a peace deal if Israeli settlements stop' whats your sources here?

Chomsky said Hamas had already resigned itself to such deals in prior years. Deals were broken by Israel refusing to stop settlement expansion.

Israel/Likud has never conceded settlement expansion. Which of course made all deals impossible. Israel has never negotiated in good faith. All their negotiations were just to fleece and humiliate the Palestinians.

Edited October 22 by Leo Gura

[Vercingetorix]

@Raze When an organization is on brink of annihilation, and suddenly say things that contradict the idea it was inherently founded upon, would you blame me if I'm a bit suspicious about the validity of it's claim?

isn't Hamas suicidal actions can be only understood from a place of Messianic delusions, that they are fighting  War in the name of God?

[Vercingetorix]

 

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Chomsky said Hamas had already resigned itself to such deals in prior years. Deals were broken by Israel refusing to stop settlement expansion.

Israel/Likud has never conceded settlement expansion. Which of course made all deals impossible. Israel has never negotiated in good faith. All their negotiations were just to fleece and humiliate the Palestinians.

So why Israel left Gaza? why they agreed to Oslo accords?