Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Nemra]

2 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

We are only claiming what’s ours. I am not claiming Jordan or Syria or Egypt, nor do we plan to settle those lands nor do we even try.

Why are you limiting yourself?

Jews once lived elsewhere before living in the lands of now what is called Israel or Palestine.

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Novac08 said:

Why focus so heavily on Israel

Because they are killing 40,000 civilians, 15,000 children, 75 years of ongoing and continuing ethnic cleansing, dragging the Middle East and the USA into war with Iran, corrupting the US government, and creating global terrorism.

The better question, why are you distracting from the obvious with irrelevancies and whataboutisms?

Edited October 22 by Leo Gura

[Novac08]

@Leo Gura

It makes sense when you put it that way, and I can understand your perspective better now.

That said, I take issue with the idea that this is irrelevant or a whataboutism. Like you, I live in the southwest USA. I worked in a government agency that began every committee meeting with an acknowledgement of stolen land. I even managed a team with a native colleague who openly viewed us as invaders. These experiences often left me wondering if the truly ethical response would be to find a way to return to Europe, despite my family having been in the Americas for 3+ generations. So, for me, these questions don’t feel irrelevant—they speak to broader moral dilemmas that I continue to wrestle with.

As for Israel/Palestine, it has always struck me as a deeply entrenched conflict between two groups unwilling to accept each other's presence. It feels distant and complex, much like other regions of high conflict, such as parts of Africa. However, I do understand your point about U.S. involvement with Israel and Iran, and I agree that the U.S. should not support this kind of brutality or be dragged into WW3.

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Novac08 said:

@Leo Gura

That said, I take issue with the idea that this is irrelevant or a whataboutism. Like you, I live in the southwest USA. I worked in a government agency that began every committee meeting with an acknowledgement of stolen land. I even managed a team with a native colleague who openly viewed us as invaders. These experiences often left me wondering if the truly ethical response would be to find a way to return to Europe, despite my family having been in the Americas for 3+ generations. So, for me, these questions don’t feel irrelevant—they speak to broader moral dilemmas that I continue to wrestle with.

It's also good to look at America's evils. Acknowledging Native American rights and genocide is also important. But it should not be used to distract from problems in the Middle East. Israel has been a huge inflammatory issue in the Middle East for 75 years now and it needs a resolution. America and Europe should certainly not be funding their evil.

What happened to American Natives was horrible, but today we have a peace and we are not bombing their towns and children nor trying to push them off their land. And if we are, then we should stop. We could also consider giving them some more land. The US Federal government owns like 60% of the land in the Western USA and much of it empty.

No one is seriously telling Israel to not exist or move back to Europe. That's a strawman. Palestinians & even Hamas will accept a peace deal where they are given decent land and settlers are permanently stopped. The issue is that Israel refuses to stop settlers. This is unacceptable and wrong.

American empire is a deeply problematic thing which we as Americans need to confront and stop denying, in the same way that Israelis are denying their colonialism. The real issue for America is not Native Americans, it's dismantling our military empire. And we can start by cutting off Israel.

Edited October 22 by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

American empire is a deeply problematic thing which we as Americans need to confront and stop denying, in the same way that Israelis are denying their colonialism. The real issue for America is not Native Americans, it's dismantling our military empire. And we can start by cutting off Israel.

True. But there will still be Russia, China and many orhers. Or we could say what must be dismantled is the human greed for evermore. Which is seemingly innocent in a way it stems from the "ego" feeling of lack and fear of not having enough and fear of others it’s automatic. So i say we dismantle our own egos, yes we can. 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

But there will still be Russia, China and many orhers.

There will be rapists too.

[PurpleTree]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There will be rapists too.

I don’t think the US will ever give up power to "enemies" willingly. Never. Only if there is a alien invasion, ww3, huge awakening and ego dismantling or something of that order.

[Nemra]

Israel Special Forces:

 

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[mmKay]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Leo was great right up until he deconstructed my Jewishness.

Put that on a shirt

[zazen]

2 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I don’t think the US will ever give up power to "enemies" willingly. Never. Only if there is a alien invasion, ww3, huge awakening and ego dismantling or something of that order.

The imperialistic factions within US are lashing out because their hegemony is dying out. Power is being wrestled out of American hegemony. Parallel structures and alliances are being made to ensure this - partly because the global order under the US was predatory. As we speak, BRICS is holding a summit in Kazan, Russia - where the future is being written. India and China just settled a border dispute, Saudi Arabia and Iran are on good footing - all this goes counter to the Western misconception of the global South as being some backwater, tribalistic group of countries that need Western intervention and US patrol to keep things stable. They perceive them as 'un-developed' people unable to be diplomatic with one another, when in fact it is the West who are un-diplomatic and come in the way of others diplomatic efforts.

We can't get rid of greed, but channel it. The question is, which states greed has manifested in devastating ways across the world? The negative effects of US greed pales in comparison to Russian or Chinese greed - yet China and Russia are constantly painted as some global threat. Their a threat to Western dominance and false self perception, thats all.

 

[Gennadiy1981]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Gennadiy1981 Your bias is so cartoonish.

What did you think this work was about? You thought we would do truth-seeking and in the end your Jewish fantasies would get excepted, preserved, and served? You think that being a Jew is like an island in the middle of an ocean of self-deception? No. It is the ocean, the self-deception, just like everything else humans do. Only now when the rubber meets the road, when all the philosophy finally makes contact with your living reality, now you plead special exception. Now Leo is biased. Leo was great right up until he deconstructed my Jewishness.

This work was never about preserving your self.

Truth is a dagger in your Zionist heart. That's no mistake. That's the whole point! The problem is that you assumed truth would validate you. Instead truth reveals you to be a monster. That's no mistake, that's the truth. The point of our work was to make you conscious and open enough to accept your monstrosity.

Thank you for the response. See at least I take your response to process, you on the other hand totally dismiss that you maybe bias as well. You truly believe that Israel fully wrong and that the other side is fully right. That is not the case, that indeed the other side is as guilty if not way more guilty. Why can’t you deconstruct that? Why can’t you contemplate that maybe you have been obsessed about this topic for a bit too much. You don’t believe you need to do your own deconstruction? Do you? Yet you are asking us to do on our end?
 

To answer you about me being deluded? See we live in a practical world, would allies during WW2 would think that maybe we should not bomb the hell out of Nazis, would US think twice or three times of not nuking Japan? It’s all nice thoughts but when you live in a jungle, there is a self survival mechanism here and if you don’t eat them, they will eat you, it’s just reality on the ground. It’s nice to contemplate and trying to deconstruct your identity, or even to go one step further and deconstruct your humanism and let yourself loose in a forest with a bear, why not, it’s all you anyways, but let’s see how practical that would be.

And no one is dragging anyone into anything. State department does its own math and when they involved into something this means they assumed all responsibilities and it was necessary for way beyond reasons we can even think off. Awhile back I was in politics, on a low level politics, I can tell you, whatever in higher echelons happening, the average Joe has no idea and the media does not reveal the real causes.  

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

You know I am reading your posts and keep fascinating, you totally lost on this one, and the more you research the more you dive into fantasy land. You are a very smart person, genius when it comes to epistemology, mysticism and Philosophy, but on Israel you totally lost it, and got to a point that you radicalized yourself on it. I am not here to convince you but to point out your flaws on it.

To make long story short, we are not ethnically clean anyone, we came to get what is rightfully hours by religious and historical rights. We also purchased those lands in early twentieth century. What you call West Bank is also ours, it was, is and will always be. You seem to be ok that Jews were expelled from Arab countries but we that lived what you call West Bank, should vacate. You are the one living in Nevada by the way which was mostly inhabited by many Indian Tribes, but it’s ok you ethnically cleansed them fair and square and took their land, and you have no issues about it. Fine I give it to you. 
https://nevadasindianterritory.com/

And finally about Gaza, it was always ours and we lived there. So the question for us to settle is not if but rather of when. Don’t worry we will get back there. We are only claiming what’s ours. I am not claiming Jordan or Syria or Egypt, nor do we plan to settle those lands nor do we even try. But what’s ours is ours. When you leave Nevada and relocate to a place of your origin then we can talk about us relocating to our origins. 

You don’t legally have a right to take the homes of someone else just because the Bible says people of your religion lived there 2000 years ago.

If I find proof my ancestors lived in my neighbors house, I can’t just grab a rifle and kick him and his family out and take it claiming it is mine.

Even if we accept your logic, genetic evidence shows Palestinians have more DNA relation to the original Levant inhabitants, they are closer in relation to the people who lived there 2000 years ago.

Edited October 22 by Raze

[Gennadiy1981]

6 hours ago, Novac08 said:

@Leo Gura I genuinely find @Gennadiy1981's point to be quite thought-provoking.

Why focus so heavily on Israel when you reside on land that was also taken from its original inhabitants? What's stopping you from returning your land to the indigenous people who still want it and from whom it was stolen not too long ago?

Have you heard "You can see the speck in someone else's eye, but you can't see the log in your own". Because if Leo truly will start deconstructing, then he will quickly realize that Nevada was mostly inhabited by Natives and he may need to emigrate and perhaps go back to Russia to join Putin mandatory military service. Or at least scream, form the top of his lungs that Nevada is not his home, and compare to Jews, who by the way did live in Israel (Bible is your source) the whites never lived before here and now its the Natives that ended up in reservations. Something to ponder on that and deconstruct that?

 

6 hours ago, Nemra said:

Why are you limiting yourself?

Jews once lived elsewhere before living in the lands of now what is called Israel or Palestine.

I mean Jews lived in four corners of the Earth, but does not mean that we owe everything. We just want a small silver of Land that is historically and religiously is ours. To be frank, I am tired of being second class citizen and live under others, I want to have my own society with my own laws that i am comfortable at. I dont believe that's too much to ask. Again we are only claiming what is ours. And stop with the expansion nonsense, really is Aman, or Cairo, or Beirut or Damascus is now part of Israel? Really? 

[Karmadhi]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That guy is like a Borat character.

What does "Borat character" mean?

Sorry I am unfamiliar with that term

[Karmadhi]

18 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

We just want a small silver of Land that is historically and religiously is ours. To be frank, I am tired of being second class citizen and live under others, I want to have my own society with my own laws that i am comfortable at. I dont believe that's too much to ask. Again we are only claiming what is ours. And stop with the expansion nonsense, really is Aman, or Cairo, or Beirut or Damascus is now part of Israel? Really? 

You already have Israel with 1968 borders.

Also you now want part of South Lebanon.

Greed is bad.

I doubt you live as a second class citizen in 1968 Israel so...

Issue with you is that you treat all the Arab Muslim states as 1 entity when in reality they are different countries with different governments, borders, leaders etc. So you cannot say "All Palestinians should just go to Jordan or Egypt, same shit".

No, no, no.

Palestinians will stay in Palestine, it is their country. Therefore, the question is how to split the land fairly.

1948 UN which created Israel gave the split, which is now even more favourable to Israel with the 1968 borders.

Whole reason Israel exists, as Macron said, is because of the UN.

Therefore it is quite shameless for you guys to not care about the UN and ignore it.

If it was not for the UN, Israel would not exist as a state. 

Just because Jews lived there 2000 years ago, it does not give them claims to the whole area, they need to share it with those that were living there for many centuries before 1948. And Jewish people did not originate from that area.

Jewish people biologically, alongside all other humans came from Africa, afterwards they moved around and one of the places where they lived for a while was the area from the Jordanian river to the Medeterrainian sea. It was 1 of the stops in their long journey since their origin in Africa.

Same is applied for the Palestinians too.

 

Edited October 22 by Karmadhi

[Nemra]

@Gennadiy1981, the important thing is: Are Palestinians outside Israel treated well? No.

You actually have your own land to live on, thanks to the Zionists.

Why are you complicating things? Because the way that Israel was founded was not only based on giving Jews a place to live.

[Nemra]

10 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Palestinians will stay in Palestine, it is their country. Therefore, the question is how to split the land fairly.

Palestinians (Non-Arab and then Arab) and Jews lived together.

[Gennadiy1981]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

You already have Israel with 1968 borders.

Also you now want part of South Lebanon.

Greed is bad.

Issue with you is that you treat all the Arab Muslim states as 1 entity when in reality they are different countries with different governments, borders, leaders etc. So you cannot say "All Palestinians should just go to Jordan or Egypt, same shit".

No, no, no.

Palestinians will stay in Palestine, it is their country. Therefore, the question is how to split the land fairly.

1948 UN which created Israel gave the split, which is now even more favourable to Israel with the 1968 borders.

Whole reason Israel exists, as Macron said, is because of the UN.

Therefore it is quite shameless for you guys to not care about the UN and ignore it.

If it was not for the UN, Israel would not exist as a state. 

Just because Jews lived there 2000 years ago, it does not give them claims to the whole area, they need to share it with those that were living there for many centuries before 1948. And Jewish people did not originate from that area.

Jewish people biologically, alongside all other humans came from Africa, afterwards they moved around and one of the places where they lived for a while was the area from the Jordanian river to the Medeterrainian sea. It was 1 of the stops in their long journey since their origin in Africa.

Its always nice top speak to you, you are a bit confused though your heart is in the right place. Lets then go back in history to 1900's. Not only to mention that Jewish National Fund purchased the land, but according to League of Nations we were promised two banks of the Jordan river, and for your info Israel was never that small historically. However, because the Arabs protested, the cut 77% of our National home and created a country which never existed before Jordan and all Jews who lived there were expelled. Fine, it is what it is. So we were left with 23% of the mandate which by the way includes what you call the west Bank and Gaza, and this is not what we are ready to relinquish. And again historically, they also confiscated from Litani river which was ours and made a Christian state called Lebanon (which also never existed before). It is all water under the bridge, I am ok and we let go of it, but the rest is ours and we will hold our teeth to it.

Israel does not exist because of UN. It is because 6,000 people who survived Holocaust laid their lives for the creation of our homeland. And I know you dont like when I use the Bible, but its also prophesized there that we will return home. Don't take it with me, write complain to God.

As far as your biological claim, look things change, people assimilate, thats not the point, the question is what now. You guys have issue with Israel, the only one Jewish State, but you do not question 21 Arab States and 56 Muslim States, which a lot of them were also created in 20th century. Thats fine, but then dont blame us for defending our country.

 

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

@Gennadiy1981, the important thing is: Are Palestinians outside Israel treated well? No.

You actually have your own land to live on, thanks to the Zionists.

Why are you complicating things? Because the way that Israel was founded was not only based on giving Jews a place to live.

We have our land thanks to God. What you call Palestinians, they are not our citizens and as I said million times, form the bottom of my heart, I truly wish them well, elsewhere. God bless them and let them live happily among their brethren, or among your lands as well. I had no issue migrating and leaving the place of my birth, the way i am sure they can leave the country of their birth.

[Nemra]

12 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

We have our land thanks to God.

You should thank the Zionists.

15 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

God bless them and let them live happily among their brethren, or among your lands as well

Why not view them as your brethren?

[Gennadiy1981]

26 minutes ago, Nemra said:

You should thank the Zionists.

Why not view them as your brethren?

We thank God for it, see you don't understand our culture. Since we were exiled from Israel by Romans, for three times a day, for generations we prayed to return to Zion. This is something that was embedded in us. On every holiday and every joyous occasion we repeat the phrases to return to Zion. Just an example, we have a day of mourning which falls on Jewish Calendar the ninth of month of Av, where people mourn the destruction of our Temple back in 71 ACE. So a true story happened back in France under Napoleon rule that he was passing by Jewish community and he saw everyone were crying. He didn't want to disturb the mourners and when he passed by a second community he saw people crying as well, he thought that maybe some great leader passed away. But at the need of the day when he was passing his other province, he saw the same picture and asked to which the Rabbis explained to him. The Napoleon replied, "Those who can mourn such an event from so distant, will merit to see it rebuild"

When you say to view as our brethren, that can be applicable to any human. If you speak of Palestinian Arabs specifically, we differ everything with them. We differ in language, culture, religion, ethics, clothing, ideas and so much. We truly have nothing in common with them if that is your question. Again this is not by choice but they way humans are.