Playlist For Understanding Israel Deception

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, DawnC said:

while neglecting the broader geopolitical context in which the country exists and operates

I neglect no such context. I read the full history of Israel. History and context is not in the Zionist's favor. The deeper you read the history the more you realize how responsible Zionism is for the creation of Arab terrorism and the current situation.

Ironically, Zionists love to make appeals to history but they do not have a good understanding of their own history, which is made evident when they speak and argue.

Zionist history isn't serious history, it is a self-survival narrative and fantasy.

The purpose of this thread is to deconstruct Zionist propaganda which is overwhelming across Western media. All the war and conflict cannot be understood without such an effort. Which is why the propaganda is so thick.

Anyone who engages in this topic without acknowledging the overwhemling propaganda is not serious or not a good-faith actor. Before there can be any talk of truth we must first identify and clear away the propaganda. If this upsets you, you have some other loyalty than to truth. Ask yourself what your real loyalty is.

Edited October 14 by Leo Gura

[Some dude on the net]

@Leo Gura  This is the true face of "Western Democracy". They spit in the face of international law, they spit in the face of the ICC. This dude was a Nicaraguan who went throw the Coupe's America tried to did there. The US has Veto power at the ICC, for over 37 years the US refused to pay Nicaragua war damages because they can rule out any decisions, because they have Veto power. It's just self deception. It's a red herring, Israel is not the Problem, US and Russia are the biggest problem now. Zionism is only posible because of American support. The problems is not Israel, the problem is Capitalist fuel profit and the fear of losing power. This whole war is about keeping US economy number 1. Because they are too afraid that China will surpass the US economy. Zionism is just a red herring. America is the problem. If this thread  ignores America role in what is happening, that's the peak of self deception. Shifting blame. Again I'm not with anybody. Not with US, not with Russia, not with China. I just want peace. Because the true cause of this war is not Zionism, the true cause of this war is American Imperialism. 

 

Edited October 14 by Some dude on the net

[Some dude on the net]

@Leo Gura What US is the doing in Gaza and Lebanon is the Equivalent of China giving $20B dollars to Vietnam to invade Taiwan and nothing more. And then saying Vietnam doesn't listen. Except in the Middle East it's not an invasion. It's a holocaust in times of "peace". 

Edited October 14 by Some dude on the net

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Some dude on the net said:

@Leo Gura What is US is the doing in Gaza and Lebanon is the Equivalent of China giving $20B dollars to Vietnam to invade Taiwan and nothing more. And then saying Vietnam doesn't listen. Except in the Middle East it's not an invasion. It's a holocaust in times of "peace". 

If you wanna discuss US imperialism, you have a thread for that.

[zazen]

@DawnC

What are your thoughts on the conflict, flesh them out if you have the time and desire?

As for geopolitical context I have commented on it a page back, and there are videos being shared here which delve into that. 

18 hours ago, zazen said:

Security is a valid concern, the primary one in fact. If we forget about the factions in Israel who desire to dominate and expand territory, the ones who want to just live in peace with what they have are concerned with the possibility of ending occupation threatening their security. Heres a quote from Thomas Jefferson in regards to abolition:

“We have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go” 

That quote captures the tension: the fear of both continuing the institution of slavery and the fear of what might happen if it were abruptly abolished. Just as slavery was morally wrong despite concerns about security and stability, so too is occupation today.

How to end Hamas:

 

What's biased is the expectation that critiques must be watered down with endless context to be considered valid. This demand for exhaustive background serves more to obfuscate than illuminate. Highlighting harmful ideologies or policies doesn't require an encyclopedic account of every societal nuance.

[Some dude on the net]

@Leo Gura didn't know that, Cheers. 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

3 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

Biden in 1986 "Were there not an Israel the United States of America would need to invent an Israel."

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I know.

Biden is a medicore person.

 

[Hsinav]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

This sums up the situation very well!

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

 

Yeah. It's so gross. With friends like this, who needs a lobby?

The fish is rotten from the head down.

Edited October 14 by Leo Gura

[Husseinisdoingfine]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah. It's so gross. With friends like this, who needs a lobby?

The fish is rotten from the head down.

This is precisely the type of crap which gets people to vote third party, and I don't blame them. And yet the blame is placed on the third party voter and not the establishment Democrats.

[Some dude on the net]

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura @Leo Gura Nobody is over the thread of imperialism. Because  nobody likes to talk shit about America xd. My intuition strongly tells me that this thread is green. We have a way to miopic view the subject. Because it's just one perspective and the problem is really sistemic. The US is interconnected with Israel in unforseen ways. Just the fact that this thread is the most active is in itself a self deception. Because it makes us talk about a smallest self deception instead of the real self deception, which is imperialism. We should have a global thread on self deception with members from every country to understand the interconnectedness. One from US, one from Russia, China and so on. Just the fact that this threat is more active than the imperialism one tells me that this is self deception. Because Green loves to point fingers and not look at the bigger view. (my bad for the 3 pings my phone acts weird on the forum) 

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

This is precisely the type of crap which gets people to vote third party, and I don't blame them. And yet the blame is placed on the third party voter and not the establishment Democrats.

Third party people are hopelessly naive. They have no idea how to run a government. They are delusional moralizers and virtue signalers who couldn't manage a hotdog stand.

Edited October 14 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, DawnC said:

Israeli society is an extremely complicated one for research. There are more than five large 'sub-societies' in Israel that are extremely different from each other, and the relationships between them are complicated. Israeli society is not very close to the ethno-nationalistic image you have in mind. 

I wish there was a way to communicate this irrefutable truth I see and witness every single day.

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah. It's so gross. With friends like this, who needs a lobby?

The fish is rotten from the head down

This is the point of @Some dude on the net , though hes bashing the point in too much as if you are unaware of the facts.

The US has a interest in Israel's existence. They need Israels existence to justify their existence in a critical region. That's how they view it and speak of it in their own terms - as a 'investment', in terms of the material and less of the moral. Less ideological alignment and more an alignment of interests. Zionism to them is just a euphemism for Western supremacy and domination - US hegemony.

The nuance is that campaigning elects candidates, whilst lobbying influences what policies those candidates select. The fact that Israel and the US both serve each other symbiotically is why AIPAC isn't even in the top 20 lobbyist contributors. They don't need to be as much when Israels interests align with the US political elites interests.

Edited October 14 by zazen

[Leo Gura]

Green anti-imperialist talking points do not impress me. I see many of you pushing them as if you're saying something deep.

If you want to discuss imperialism, do it in the imperialism thread.

Edited October 14 by Leo Gura

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Some dude on the net said:

@Leo Gura didn't know that, Cheers. 

Bro its the thread you started lol. Let this thread focus more on Israel. 

For anyone sharing lengthy Youtube videos or documentaries it would be helpful to add a small description of the video if you can, especially those that don't have timestamps. 

@Leo Gura  For a lot of Westerners they think its deep because it cuts deep initially as a shock to their world view and perception of the West. Being lost in the sauce marinating in the heart of the empire and its propaganda - for some its cold water thrown  on their face which gets them riled up for feeling betrayed.

Edited October 14 by zazen

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The purpose of this thread is to deconstruct Zionist propaganda which is overwhelming across Western media. All the war and conflict cannot be understood without such an effort. Which is why the propaganda is so thick.

The desire to show curraption and the partial artificiality and unhealthy apsects of some influences is totally understandable, and this is why I try to be open and not to negate perspectives including yours.

What is troubling, however, is that this often seems to be done under the throw the baby out with the bathwater approach.

In another example, the desire to expose the curraption of Science being expressed in the Health Industry when destroying the chance of people's independent thinking on their body, is surely understandable too and ever important, but that doesn't mean the roots of science aren't healthy and have reasons for, or aren't being manifested in healthy and fruitful forms in other fields, as you know yourself.

Edited October 14 by Nivsch

[Husseinisdoingfine]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Third party people are hopelessly naive. They have no idea how to run a government. They are delusional moralizers and virtue signalers who couldn't manage a hotdog stand.

Sincere question. A lot of people are disillusioned with the current two options. A lot of people are voting third party solely because of the Gaza issue, since the Biden administration has appropriated $17.9 billion dollars to Israel since October 7, 2023. Sure, there are other reasons people might vote for, lets say, the Green Party, but Gaza seems to be the biggest reason.

What do you have to say to those people, who are considering voting third party.

 

Edited October 14 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Some dude on the net]

@zazen I thought he stared one before. I hate my phone :)) xd. See you there, Chomsky is not green, Chomsky is yellow. @zazen@Leo Gura @Leo Gura

[Alex4]

6 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Sincere question. A lot of people are disillusioned with the current two options. A lot of people are voting third party solely because of the Gaza issue, since the Biden administration has appropriated $17.9 Billion dollars to Israel since October 7, 2023. Sure, there are other reasons people might vote, lets say, Green Party, but Gaza seems to be the biggest reason.

What do you have to say to those people, who are considering voting third party.

 

Don't throw your vote in the bin and stop holding maximalist positions.