Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[aurum]

44 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

But there’s something dignified about holding that quietly, living it without the performance.

Are you holding it quietly, or do you just not understand?

That's the heart of the issue.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I don’t even disagree with the statement itself.

But there’s something dignified about holding that quietly, living it without the performance. And something deeply twisted and vulgar in turning it into a banner of superiority - casting yourself as the great awakened guru, mocking serious thinkers for not being as obsessed with your particular flavor of insight. There’s no real compassion or depth in that, just a narcissistic need to be seen, to be praised for saying the thing no one asked to hear. No one’s being awakened - it’s just noise through a megaphone, self-congratulation disguised as wisdom. It’s gross. The psychology of it is pure ego in spiritual drag.

Every time I point out a limitation in someone's worldview or method, I am accused of trying to be better than them. It's such a trite gaslight at this point that I'm sick of hearing it.

Maybe I'm a narcissist. Or maybe I just care that you don't fall into their epistemic traps.

The disturbing thing is that I care more about your epistemology than you care about your epistemology. That's because I know what you will lose.

Edited April 19 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

Leo, I had the independent insight that you point frequently the dangers of group-think without properly addressing the potential for collective intelligence.

How God realized are you if you don't care about the God Realization of "others"?

Edited April 19 by Davino

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

without properly addressing the potential for collective intelligence.

I do have a bias against that.

Yes, there is collective intelligence but it comes with so much risk. It's like juggling knives. You're more likely to fall into collective stupidity than intelligence.

But of course I see the value in looking for ways to do collective intelligence well. That's just not my area of excellence. That's for more social people than me to lead on.

I do admire the Game B crowd for attempting collective intelligence. I just see that it will fail and that I can reach higher intelligence solo.

As soon as you create a collective, you're in the realm of politics. And I don't want to be a politician.

These Game B people will never Awaken because they are too distracted by collective survival. I foresaw this trap long ago, which is why I never built a collective. I would rather die alone with God than die together without God. That was my decision. They made the opposite decision.

You can try to do both. Good luck with that. You're gonna need it.

Edited April 19 by Leo Gura

[Rafael Thundercat]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, there is collective intelligence but it comes with so much risk. It's like juggling knives. You're more likely to fall into collective stupidity than intelligenc

Being one who was doing Psycadelic Journeys in group for around 8 years I can share the truth of this statement. 

In some circles of Ayahuasca, the field is so clogged with BS that I need to tell myself many times " Ok man, realise that here in this space you will not be able to work some deep stuff like God Realization" 

With this I dont say that I tried many times to expand a bit. But in the end of a retreat I hear the sharings and is jawdroping to hear the sort of delusions people share. Of course, compassion a bit cause everyone is in their own path, but most people dont use well the oportunities when they do Psycadelics. For many it became just Estatic Parties insead of even deep healing. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

These Game B people will never Awaken because they are too distracted by collective survival. I foresaw this trap long ago, which is why I never built a collective. I would rather die alone with God than die together without God. That was my decision. They made the opposite decision.

This last video of Tim Freke and Daniel was the last drop of water for me about Daniel and people like him. Gosh, is like someone one day told him that Eloquence is Sexy and he belived so know he is fixated in deliberation of models. Feels like a bee stuck on its own honey. Bla,bla,bla.. 

[RendHeaven]

6 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Being one who was doing Psycadelic Journeys in group for around 8 years I can share the truth of this statement. 

In some circles of Ayahuasca, the field is so clogged with BS that I need to tell myself many times " Ok man, realise that here in this space you will not be able to work some deep stuff like God Realization" 

With this I dont say that I tried many times to expand a bit. But in the end of a retreat I hear the sharings and is jawdroping to hear the sort of delusions people share. Of course, compassion a bit cause everyone is in their own path, but most people dont use well the oportunities when they do Psycadelics. For many it became just Estatic Parties insead of even deep healing. 

Nothing beats 5-meo-(dmt & malt interchangeable) in solitude. 

Makes LSD with your friends or Ayahuasca with your guru look like a gimmicky party trick

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

This last video of Tim Freke and Daniel was the last drop of water for me about Daniel and people like him.

Be careful. I did not post that video to sour you on Daniel. He has much wisdom to offer. You can learn a lot from him.

My point was just to show how tricky the most advanced aspects of this work are.

I am not here to discredit Game B people. I just use them as examples of certain advanced traps.

A certain level of leniency is needed because no one is perfect. You can nitpick any teacher, any guru, any intellectual, but that itself becomes a trap. Appreciate the value that people like Daniel offer. Learn from everyone. Don't nitpick.

Edited April 19 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

It is possible to do high consciousness collectives, but this is a very specialized niche. You must be prepared to sink years of effort into doing it well, which personally doesn't interest me, so I don't do it. But for some people it will be a good path.

[Rafael Thundercat]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Be careful. I did not post that video to sour you on Daniel. He has much wisdom to offer. You can learn a lot from him.

I am aware of that. I just was able to see what I was trying to see or point in Daniels Videos that always was a bit off for me. And I now can see. Is his verbose. Of course, there is wisdom in verbose. But as you refered once and I became aware when i do psycadelics. Is that a lot of verbose dont help at all. So for me to infuse my mind with all the verbosity of people like Daniel is not my cup of tea. Bias? Yes, we all need some Bias anyway dont we?

[Rafael Thundercat]

19 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Nothing beats 5-meo-(dmt & malt interchangeable) in solitude. 

Makes LSD with your friends or Ayahuasca with your guru look like a gimmicky party trick

Dont confuse it. I confessed that some aspects are hard or even impossible to work in group setting. But a lot of other aspect of self development are good and enhanced in group. The realization of being in service, the appreciation for the joy of oneself and others, the lessons that one learn in community, the development of boundaries. Even some laugths of crazy stuff that happens. Ayahuasca in Tribal views is a drink to Celebrate together,sing dance a introspect into what one wish to oneself in life. Helps a lot to learn about the emotions,shadows,patterns and behaviors that dont serve life. But for going deep, solitude is the best.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I am aware of that. I just was able to see what I was trying to see or point in Daniels Videos that always was a bit off for me. And I now can see. Is his verbose. Of course, there is wisdom in verbose. But as you refered once and I became aware when i do psycadelics. Is that a lot of verbose dont help at all. So for me to infuse my mind with all the verbosity of people like Daniel is not my cup of tea. Bias? Yes, we all need some Bias anyway dont we?

The Game B crowd is very conceptually elaborate, and that certainly can become a trap. Which is why I resist using their jargon. It makes the mind so complex that it's easy to get lost in human bullshit. It's a similar problem in academia. Academics are so smart they're stupid. They are trying to impress themselves with elaborate concepts instead of grasping the simple fundamentals.

Edited April 19 by Leo Gura

[Schizophonia]

37 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Nothing beats 5-meo-(dmt & malt interchangeable) in solitude. 

Makes LSD with your friends or Ayahuasca with your guru look like a gimmicky party trick

I have to try again. 

But I should smoke it, to get through the barrier as quickly as possible.

I heard that the concept of time is distorted and that the trip can seem to last for years or something like that. Is that exaggerated?

Edited April 19 by Schizophonia

[Rafael Thundercat]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Academics are so smart they're stupid. They are trying to impress themselves with elaborate concepts instead of grasping the simple fundamentals.

Was this I was refering that I became aware of Daniel. Nothing special of him. From all stages the risk present itself. For years I was struggling with Mórmon verbose instaled in my mind. Mainly the Ideia of God as Other. But in the end the Othering process repeats subtly in every worldview. All levels of Development have their own way of Othering, different marketing but same content. Mytological beings,Scientific Arguments, etc..just to avoid what is Actual. 

[RendHeaven]

34 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I have to try again. 

But I should smoke it, to get through the barrier as quickly as possible.

I heard that the concept of time is distorted and that the trip can seem to last for years or something like that. Is that exaggerated?

It's more like time becomes unrendered and you realize that this conscious moment has always been here and will always be here.

NOW is a monolithic absolute.

And from there you realize you are identical to this NOW. 

you are immortal and inviolable and unlimited and whole, which sparks a warm feeling of homecoming and floods you with unconditional Love.

As you go deeper, you realize that the human self is never coming back. If you say "fuck it" and throw it all away, then you can access deeper aspects of God-proper, such as Infinite Intelligence/Imagination (spawn galaxies through thought). But this threshold is usually where we freak out and collapse back into the ego, ending the trip.

[The Crocodile]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

I heard that the concept of time is distorted and that the trip can seem to last for years or something like that. Is that exaggerated?

With salvia this can be the case. And it's not a "seem", it will last for years just in a different reality frame than this one you're used to.

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Gosh, is like someone one day told him that Eloquence is Sexy and he belived so know he is fixated in deliberation of models. Feels like a bee stuck on its own honey. Bla,bla,bla.. 

 

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

It's more like time becomes unrendered and you realize that this conscious moment has always been here and will always be here.

NOW is a monolithic absolute.

And from there you realize you are identical to this NOW. 

Not yet experienced to be aware of/understand this. 😅

I say this because I asked a YouTuber I know who has consumed it several times, and compared the experience to being "like totally dead to the point where the notion of being alive no longer made sense" and that it felt like there were thousands of years between each breath.

Of course it was a big dose vaped.

Quote

you are immortal and inviolable and unlimited and whole, which sparks a warm feeling of homecoming and floods you with unconditional Love.

I visualize.

During my last experience, I felt a unique sense of warmth and intimacy, with typical psychedelic visions, but darker and more "masculine," if that means anything, than other psychedelics.

Quote

As you go deeper, you realize that the human self is never coming back.

What do you mean by that ?

Quote

If you say "fuck it" and throw it all away, then you can access deeper aspects of God-proper, such as Infinite Intelligence/Imagination (spawn galaxies through thought). But this threshold is usually where we freak out and collapse back into the ego, ending the trip.

I had this panic attack during my first trip with a huge dose.
All I remember was a big white light in my imagination, and me fidgeting around, remembering my identity while paradoxically nothing was happening.

Edited April 19 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

59 minutes ago, The Crocodile said:

With salvia this can be the case. And it's not a "seem", it will last for years just in a different reality frame than this one you're used to.

I actually have 15x in my closet eheh.

I'll try it one day.

Edited April 19 by Schizophonia

[Davino]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, there is collective intelligence but it comes with so much risk. It's like juggling knives. You're more likely to fall into collective stupidity than intelligence.

But of course I see the value in looking for ways to do collective intelligence well. That's just not my area of excellence. That's for more social people than me to lead on.

If you talk about the dangers of collective stupidity, you should also talk about the benefits of collective intelligence, how much you've done that? Not saying you become the promoter of any side, but to make your understanding and speech more omnisided.

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I just see that it will fail and that I can reach higher intelligence solo.

Well you can and so I do but I'm under no illusion of the vital role that collective intelligence plays in my solo intelligence. Internet is a collective creation, roads, arriving to the moon, books, resources etc. All spoon feed me and create the conditions to make my individual peak intelligence.

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I would rather die alone with God than die together without God. That was my decision. They made the opposite decision.

You can try to do both. Good luck with that. You're gonna need it.

I prefer being by Myself. 

God radiates through me and I care for all of reality and wish the best for all, which has important collective implications.