Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[SwiftQuill]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Marxism is NOT post-modernism. It is modernism.

Wrong. 

Marxism and Postmodernism are distinct but intersect in woke religion. Marxism sees society as a struggle for power (class conflict), while postmodernism applies this to identity - gender (feminism), sexuality (LGBTQ+), and race (critical race theory). Instead of just class struggle, power is now viewed through identity oppression and narcissistic victimhood. You have to admit that at least a subset of Postmodernism adopts a Marxist structure, framing all human interactions as oppressor vs oppressed.

[Nilsi]

6 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

Wrong. 

Marxism and Postmodernism are distinct but intersect in woke religion. Marxism sees society as a struggle for power (class conflict), while postmodernism applies this to identity - gender (feminism), sexuality (LGBTQ+), and race (critical race theory). Instead of just class struggle, power is now viewed through identity oppression and narcissistic victimhood. You have to admit that at least a subset of Postmodernism adopts a Marxist structure, framing all human interactions as oppressor vs oppressed.

Postmodernism isn’t critical theory - you’re conflating things.

Quintessential postmodernism is Derrida and Baudrillard - this intellectually sophisticated posturing of total ironic distance (pronounced in a French way, of course) from anything that even remotely resembles meaningfulness or sincerity (or truth for that matter).

Critical theory and Marxism on the other hand, are very much not postmodern. They're deeply emotionally invested in the struggle for liberation, while postmodernists are holed up in old libraries, chain-smoking cigarettes, reading obscure literature, and deconstructing every word of it - without giving a damn about anything “real.”

You know, in Baudrillard, the “real” even disappears entirely - there’s only simulation. Hence his infamous claim: “The Gulf War did not take place.”

Edited March 11 by Nilsi

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

Wrong. 

Marxism and Postmodernism are distinct but intersect in woke religion. Marxism sees society as a struggle for power (class conflict), while postmodernism applies this to identity - gender (feminism), sexuality (LGBTQ+), and race (critical race theory). Instead of just class struggle, power is now viewed through identity oppression and narcissistic victimhood. You have to admit that at least a subset of Postmodernism adopts a Marxist structure, framing all human interactions as oppressor vs oppressed.

You are parroting Jordan Peterson group-think.

These are shallow right-wing talking points, not serious philosophy. Jordan Peterson would flunk a freshman philosophy class.

You are being mislead by your political agenda.

Edited March 11 by Leo Gura

[Nilsi]

13 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

Wrong. 

Marxism and Postmodernism are distinct but intersect in woke religion. Marxism sees society as a struggle for power (class conflict), while postmodernism applies this to identity - gender (feminism), sexuality (LGBTQ+), and race (critical race theory). Instead of just class struggle, power is now viewed through identity oppression and narcissistic victimhood. You have to admit that at least a subset of Postmodernism adopts a Marxist structure, framing all human interactions as oppressor vs oppressed.

The only “postmodernist” your description might remotely fit is Foucault - and even then, the guy was a hardcore anti-Marxist for most of his career. Sure, he had a little phase in the late ’60s where he threw on a leather jacket and did the whole radical-chic thing for a few years, but that didn’t last long before he went right back to his elitism and racism.

Really, this is the problem with calling everything “postmodernism.” It’s such a vague, lazy catch-all for such a rich intellectual tradition, and the way people throw it around these days isn’t just sloppy - it’s straight-up propaganda.

Edited March 11 by Nilsi

[SwiftQuill]

I don't have a political agenda. I'm not even right wing. I have observed these patterns in the real world. And I have bothered to read Postmodern literature, like Feminist Phd and Master's thesis. I've done the research myself. I have also taken a course in Philosophy of Science. I may not have a 4 year degree on the topic but I do understand many of the terms. On the race and lgbtq thing I've not done as much research, but I can confirm that at the very least the Feminist religion subscribes both to Marxism and Postmodernism. It subscribes to Marxism because it says all women are victims and all men are oppressors. And it subscribes to Postmodernism because it uses Constructionism and the whole "objectivity doesn't exist because it was invented by the white patriarchy" garbage. And I'm not kidding. I've actually read it in legitimate papers. It's fine if you use Postmodernism and Marxism differently. But to pretend that these relationships don't exist, and that it's all right wing propaganda, that's dismissing real patterns.

[Nilsi]

Just now, SwiftQuill said:

I don't have a political agenda. I'm not even right wing. I have observed these patterns in the real world. And I have bothered to read Postmodern literature, like Feminist Phd and Master's thesis. I've done the research myself. I have also taken a course in Philosophy of Science. I may not have a 4 year degree on the topic but I do understand many of the terms. On the race and lgbtq thing I've not done as much research, but I can confirm that at the very least the Feminist religion subscribes both to Marxism and Postmodernism. It subscribes to Marxism because it says all women are victims and all men are oppressors. And it subscribes to Postmodernism because it uses Constructionism and the whole "objectivity doesn't exist because it was invented by the white patriarchy" garbage. And I'm not kidding. I've actually read it in legitimate papers. It's fine if you use Postmodernism and Marxism differently. But to pretend that these relationships don't exist, and that it's all right wing propaganda, that's dismissing real patterns.

Postmodernism isn’t feminism. Postmodernists don’t give a shit about the struggle of women, and they definitely don’t have some sneaky political agenda they’re pushing, despite what Stephen Hicks or Jordan Peterson might say.

Think of postmodernists like autistic nerds with oversized intellects who are just obsessed with questioning everything to death. They don’t care about race, gender, or what bathroom people use. They’re the most esoteric intellectuals imaginable - no threat to society, no real influence on it. They’re just chilling, reading obscure books, smoking cigarettes. Leave them alone!  

[Leo Gura]

@SwiftQuill You have clearly picked up all these ideas from right-wing political circles. That's the only place they exist and you are repeating them word for word.

And you clearly do have a political agenda because you keep posting about it in a reactionary way. You are clearly attached to this ideologically. You feel a need to fight feminism or wokeness or whatever.

[SwiftQuill]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

Postmodernism isn’t feminism. Postmodernists don’t give a shit about the struggle of women, and they definitely don’t have some sneaky political agenda they’re pushing, despite what Stephen Hicks or Jordan Peterson might say.

Think of postmodernists like autistic nerds with oversized intellects who are just obsessed with questioning everything to death. They don’t care about race, gender, or what bathroom people use. They’re the most esoteric intellectuals imaginable - no threat to society, no real influence on it. They’re just chilling, reading obscure books, smoking cigarettes. Leave them alone!  

Wrong.

There is indeed a subset of Postmodernism which is Feminist Postmodernism.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/postmodern-feminism.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodern_feminism

https://sociology.institute/introduction-to-sociology/postmodern-third-wave-feminism-diversity-difference/

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

Wrong.

There is indeed a subset of Postmodernism which is Feminist Postmodernism.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/postmodern-feminism.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodern_feminism

https://sociology.institute/introduction-to-sociology/postmodern-third-wave-feminism-diversity-difference/

Bro, there’s a subset of literally everything.

There’s even Islamic feminism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_feminism

That doesn’t mean anything.

[SwiftQuill]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@SwiftQuill You have clearly picked up all these ideas from right-wing political circles. That's the only place they exist and you are repeating them word for word.

And you clearly do have a political agenda because you keep posting about it in a reactionary way. You are clearly attached to this ideologically. You feel a need to fight feminism or wokeness or whatever.

What I'm saying is just that there is a strong relationship between these terms. It's not even that controversial. I just posted 3 links on the topic. And I have indeed read literature on this. And you guys go after low hanging fruit like MAGA and the Andrew Tates and stuff like that. You also spend time fighting ideologies you find problematic. Maybe if my neighbors were MAGA or fascists or something like that, I too would have that emotional need to fight that ideology.

[SwiftQuill]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

Bro, there’s a subset of literally everything.

There’s even Islamic feminism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_feminism

That doesn’t mean anything.

I'm saying that these subsets exist and you guys deny it.

[Nilsi]

Just now, SwiftQuill said:

I'm saying that these subsets exist and you guys deny it.

I’m not denying it, but you’re blowing this way out of proportion.

There are more obscure subsets of philosophy than there are people on this planet - you can cherrypick whatever evidence you want to justify your beliefs.

You’re just doing bad epistemology, that’s all that’s being pointed out to you.

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

I'm saying that these subsets exist and you guys deny it.

This is the perfect question for a GPT AI model. Just ask, "What is postmodernism and what are its goals?" The answer will be a precise statistical reflection of the broadest themes in postmodern discourse, which is primarily philosophical and critical rather than political. Most of it isn't woke or Marxist at all - unless you want to dismiss the entire body of human-generated text that forms the foundation of these language models.

[SwiftQuill]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

This is the perfect question for a GPT AI model. Just ask, "What is postmodernism and what are its goals?" The answer will be a precise statistical reflection of the broadest themes in postmodern discourse, which is primarily philosophical and critical rather than political. Most of it isn't woke or Marxist at all - unless you want to dismiss the entire body of human-generated text that forms the foundation of these language models.

I never claimed that the entirety of Postmodernism is Marxist, nor that the entirety of Postmodernism is Feminist. I am aware these are subsets. I'm aware Postmodernism also relates to art for instance. And ethics/morality.

[SwiftQuill]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@SwiftQuill You have clearly picked up all these ideas from right-wing political circles. That's the only place they exist and you are repeating them word for word.

And you clearly do have a political agenda because you keep posting about it in a reactionary way. You are clearly attached to this ideologically. You feel a need to fight feminism or wokeness or whatever.

I feel a need to fight for truth and fairness.

[Nilsi]

5 minutes ago, SwiftQuill said:

I never claimed that the entirety of Postmodernism is Marxist, nor that the entirety of Postmodernism is Feminist. I am aware these are subsets. I'm aware Postmodernism also relates to art for instance. And ethics/morality.

But you’re using propagandist language to make this association seem central to postmodernism when, in reality, it’s only loosely connected.

Which begs the question - why are you doing that? I’m not going to play psychoanalyst here, but maybe you should ask yourself.

[Leo Gura]

@SwiftQuill The point is that you are so busy fighting with feminism or whatever that you are not learning the very important insights contained within post-modernism, feminism, and even Marxism.

It would benefit your development to seriously study my vidoes on post-modernism. They were designed exactly for people like you.

Edited March 11 by Leo Gura

[SwiftQuill]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@SwiftQuill The point is that you are so busy fighting with feminism or whatever that you are not learning the very important insights contained within post-modernism, feminism, and even Marxism.

It would benefit your development to seriously study my vidoes on post-modernism. They were designed exactly people like you.

I am aware that when applied properly, Postmodernism, Feminism and Marxism can have some useful ideas. And I have studied Postmodernism on my own. And I have read the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital for beginners (I think was the title). And I've watched part 1 of your series. Most of it were concepts I already knew. But that doesn't mean that I can't find serious issues in these ideologies. And I can't help it but I get irritated when people pretend that these ideologies have no ethical problems in them.

[Leo Gura]

@SwiftQuill Make sure you watch Part 2. It's crazy powerful. It solves the conflict between Modernism and PM.

Edited March 11 by Leo Gura

[SwiftQuill]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@SwiftQuill Make sure you watch Part 2. It's crazy powerful.

Will do. I'll watch it this week. Sorry for annoying you guys with my antiwoke stuff. I get irritated sometimes and can't help it. Anyway, speaking of thesis, I need to work on my own Master's thesis now.