Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Bobby_2021]

12 hours ago, Raze said:

What democrats could have done is start going after trump legally right after he lost but then offer him an off-the record backroom deal to stop if he agrees not to run

The leaders always agree with each other backdoor. These people have their families and friends in both parties.

They both will fuck us over before they let anything happen to their political opponents. The real divide is between the classes.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Davino said:

While we often discuss how individuals overcome personal illusions, what would this process look like at a societal scale?

It would look like American politics. Like raving racist lunatics storming the Capitol and realizing that doesn't work.

[Davino]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It would look like American politics. Like raving racist lunatics storming the Capitol and realizing that doesn't work.

Yes, this would be a down to top approach example.

Could we explore how systematic ideological transformation could be initiated from leadership positions. Let's consider two hypothetical scenarios:

First, imagine Israel under the leadership of a wise president committed to transcending past rigid ideological frameworks. What concrete steps could be taken to guide the population beyond entrenched Zionist beliefs toward a more nuanced, mature understanding of identity and coexistence? How could this transition occur without simply replacing one dogma with another, but instead elevating collective consciousness?

Second, consider the U.S. political landscape. If a new administration took power, what methodologies could help repair political polarization and restore institutional integrity? How could leadership systematically address the manipulative effects of populist, fascit rhetoric while avoiding partisan approaches? What structural reforms might prevent future democratic destabilization and restore healthy political discourse?

Curious to understand your conscious politics answer

[Rafael Thundercat]

2 hours ago, Davino said:

The Melian Dialogue & Zionism. The post is of utmost quality, both in content and structure, a pleasure to read.

@Davino  where to find this Melian Dialogue & Zionism? Is it and Essay?

[Davino]

@Rafael Thundercat His last blog post

https://www.actualized.org/insights/the-melian-dialogue-and-zionism

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Davino said:

Yes, this would be a down to top approach example.

Could we explore how systematic ideological transformation could be initiated from leadership positions. Let's consider two hypothetical scenarios:

First, imagine Israel under the leadership of a wise president committed to transcending past rigid ideological frameworks. What concrete steps could be taken to guide the population beyond entrenched Zionist beliefs toward a more nuanced, mature understanding of identity and coexistence? How could this transition occur without simply replacing one dogma with another, but instead elevating collective consciousness?

Second, consider the U.S. political landscape. If a new administration took power, what methodologies could help repair political polarization and restore institutional integrity? How could leadership systematically address the manipulative effects of populist, fascit rhetoric while avoiding partisan approaches? What structural reforms might prevent future democratic destabilization and restore healthy political discourse?

Curious to understand your conscious politics answer

My politics is very pragmatic. I don't see that such theoretical approaches will change anything.

The real answer is to deeply study the work we do here, and in the meantime mankind will behave like a pack of ravenous hyenas.

The real levers for raising mankind is education and technology. Those two things over decades make the biggest difference. Mankind evolves naturally, but slowly.

As far as systemic changes to government, I would propose a serious focus on anti-corruption measures. Hundreds of small changes that make corruption by either party unsustainable. But of course, this is precisely what will be rejected by everyone.

Any policy proposal that seriously cures corruption must be rejected by a corrupt society. So here we are.

At this point I will be happy if America still has a democracy in 4 years. I doubt it.

Edited October 30, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My politics is very pragmatic. I don't see that such theoretical approaches will change anything.

Ultimately, humanity will reach a point where confronting these profound questions about social and political transformation becomes unavoidable.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The real answer is to deeply study the work we do here, and in the meantime mankind will behave like a pack of ravenous hyenas.

That was my approach in yellow SD, but since I'm getting more stable in turquoise I cannot let humanity jump of the cliff. I care for humanity, I wanna make an impact to it in some way or the other, maybe through understanding the mechanics of the mind and society at large.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The real levers for raising mankind is education and technology. Those two things over decades make the biggest difference. Mankind evolves naturally, but slowly.

Makes sense. I'll consider them more heavily in my understanding of society.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As far as systemic changes to government, I would propose a serious focus on anti-corruption measures. Hundreds of small changes that make corruption by either party unsustainable. But of course, this is precisely what will be rejected by everyone. Any policy proposal that seriously cures corruption must be rejected by a corrupt society. So here we are.

It's a very good proposal but as you point out the problem of auditing is at the core of anti-corruption measures. Are citizens going to oversight the governement? Are we gonna build international independent auditing institutions? This could be more systematic. A quick practical policy could be strengthening whistleblower protections and investigative journalism. That alone could help a lot.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

At this point I will be happy if America still has a democracy in 4 years. I doubt it.

Do you think America is at risk of losing its hegemony?

Edited October 30, 2024 by Davino

[Jayson G]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My politics is very pragmatic. I don't see that such theoretical approaches will change anything.

The real answer is to deeply study the work we do here, and in the meantime mankind will behave like a pack of ravenous hyenas.

The real levers for raising mankind is education and technology. Those two things over decades make the biggest difference. Mankind evolves naturally, but slowly.

As far as systemic changes to government, I would propose a serious focus on anti-corruption measures. Hundreds of small changes that make corruption by either party unsustainable. But of course, this is precisely what will be rejected by everyone.

Any policy proposal that seriously cures corruption must be rejected by a corrupt society. So here we are.

At this point I will be happy if America still has a democracy in 4 years. I doubt it.

@Leo Gura "At this point I will be happy if America still has a democracy in 4 years. I doubt it." .. what does that mean exactly though? dictatorship? a highly flawed democracy? collapse of government? 

 

[Lucasxp64]

2 hours ago, Jayson G said:

@Leo Gura "At this point I will be happy if America still has a democracy in 4 years. I doubt it." .. what does that mean exactly though? dictatorship? a highly flawed democracy? collapse of government? 

 

Project 2025 sounds on paper all of the above.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/project-2025-undercover

https://www.actualized.org/insights/project-2025-out-loud

https://www.actualized.org/insights/project-2025-warning

Edited October 30, 2024 by Lucasxp64

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Jayson G said:

what does that mean exactly though?

We can't know exactly. But if Trump wins there will be basically zero checks on him. It is a hostile takeover of government and at that point the only question is how dictatorial will he be in the mood to be.

At this point he could cancel an election and no one would be able to stop him. He can imprison any of his opponents. That is where we are headed. This is no joke. If Trump gets in office all checks are gone. His admin will destroy normal government for decades. It will be like the Iraq war but to the US government.

Edited October 30, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

https://www.actualized.org/insights/profound-proverbs-006

 

[Ayham]

I just read the blog post about the Athenians thing and how it relates to Palestine and Israel, and.... it is BASED.

Okay maybe I shouldn't use gen Z terms, but yeah it is high quality, I love when Leo gets into more factual topics (history for example, or any sort of "hard" field), and less abstract stuff, not because I don't like the abstract stuff, but because they are sort of repetitive at this point.

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura, what do you think Putin's relations with or influence on the U.S. government will be if Trump wins, considering that Putin can easily manipulate Trump?

Edited October 30, 2024 by Nemra

[Raze]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

As far as systemic changes to government, I would propose a serious focus on anti-corruption measures. Hundreds of small changes that make corruption by either party unsustainable. But of course, this is precisely what will be rejected by everyone.

Any policy proposal that seriously cures corruption must be rejected by a corrupt society. So here we are.

At this point I will be happy if America still has a democracy in 4 years. I doubt it.

Just ban big money in politics through a constitutional amendment , that alone removes 90 percent of the corruption. Most Americans also support it so it is feasible. 

Edited October 30, 2024 by Raze

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Just ban big money in politics through a constitutional amendment , that alone removes 90 percent of the corruption. Most Americans also support it so it is feasible. 

That won't do anything.

The problem today is that those with influence and money can shape the opinions and values of the population.

 

You don't have to corrupt politicians so that they don't act against climate change. All you have to do is convince the masses that acting against climate change is an excuse to steal away their freedom. In that case, the people will vote for the politicians who will do the bidding of the corporations, because the population has been embued with values in line with the corporations goals.

This has been how corporations have influenced politics for decades now, lobbyism is pretty meaningless in comparison.

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Scholar said:

That won't do anything.

The problem today is that those with influence and money can shape the opinions and values of the population.

 

You don't have to corrupt politicians so that they don't act against climate change. All you have to do is convince the masses that acting against climate change is an excuse to steal away their freedom. In that case, the people will vote for the politicians who will do the bidding of the corporations, because the population has been embued with values in line with the corporations goals.

This has been how corporations have influenced politics for decades now, lobbyism is pretty meaningless in comparison.

except they are spending more than ever in lobbying and election donations, if it is meaningless they wouldn’t, no one likes burning money 

there are countless examples of issues where the government doesn’t act because of moneyed interests where the political opinions of the majority of Americans is different. The majority of Americans believe climate change is a threat and support efforts to reduce it, for example.

Edited October 30, 2024 by Raze

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

except they are spending more than ever in lobbying and election donations, if it is meaningless they wouldn’t, no one likes burning money 

there are countless examples of issues where the government doesn’t act because of moneyed interests where the political opinions of the majority of Americans is different. The majority of Americans believe climate change is a threat and support efforts to reduce it, for example.

Show me the evidence of lobbying spenditure in relation to policy outcomes and compare that to voters desires.

 

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Show me the evidence of lobbying spenditure in relation to policy outcomes and compare that to voters desires.

 

 

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

I want to see actual data in the form of studies, or an article.

[UnbornTao]

On 10/30/2024 at 9:14 AM, Davino said:

While we often discuss how individuals overcome personal illusions, what would this process look like at a societal scale?

Do they overcome them and to what degree? How many go out of their way to achieve that? In the end it is the individual who must to do it for himself. And I have no idea what it would look like collectively, likely similar to what Leo alluded to: everyone kicking and screaming, not wanting to give up their cherished fantasies. We in fact tend to defend and promote them instead.

Edited November 1, 2024 by UnbornTao