Who is more lustful, men or women?

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Tech36363 said:

@Leo Gura i just gave up on girls 😂😂😂😂. My advice to people who suffer from sexual frustration for long time, suffering from failure with opposite sex, Just give up. 

Just give up. Move on. Somebody has to lose in this system. It's okay. If you keep holding onto your ideals of women you will continue to suffer. Let go and surrender to universes will

Why does somebody have to 'lose in this system'? 

The world is 50/50 male and female. And roughly the same percentage of men and women are straight. And the majority of women are monogamous and prefer monogamous relationships.

To me, this idea that someone has to lose doesn't make sense given the mathematics of the situation. This zero sum thinking just seems like a limiting belief to keep yourself in a state of resignation to avoid taking risks and potentially being hurt.

[Tenebroso]

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

This just proves that anyone can find a partner and that you have nothing to worry about.

Trust me. I grew up in a little redneck town with some really unattractive guys some of them missing half their teeth with poor hygiene... and some of these toothless unattractive smelly guys were abusers and drug dealers too.

And they can still get a girlfriend/wife.

And growing up there has shown me that any fears that ANYONE has about being unlovable or undateable or unmarriageable are totally false.

And of course, some serial killers and murderers can be charming (like Ted Bundy) and can lure in unsuspecting women who just think "This guy is handsome and seems so nice.". It's not like murderers and stranglers advertise themselves as such to their victims.

And then, of course, anyone who gets fame is going to have weird fans that want to be their partner... even if that person is a murderer. I'm sure that Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Ed Gein, and Eileen Warnos all had a bunch of crazy people that wanted to sleep with them for their infamy.

But 95% of women (and men) don't want anything to do with a murderer or strangler if they know they're a murderer/strangler. It's only people with issues themselves that are into that sort of thing.

So, think about it this way... "If all these awful people can find women who are interested in them, then I definitely won't have any problem attracting a woman."

My concern is that it sounds like women have to make themselves attracted to one group of men, while they can't help but fall for the more destructive men. On social media women speak of knowing it will end badly with the fuckboy but they can't help being attracted, while struggling to have that primal attraction for the guys who seem more compatible on paper. This does not seem encouraging.

[Tenebroso]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Why does somebody have to 'lose in this system'? 

The world is 50/50 male and female. And roughly the same percentage of men and women are straight. And the majority of women are monogamous and prefer monogamous relationships.

To me, this idea that someone has to lose doesn't make sense given the mathematics of the situation. This zero sum thinking just seems like a limiting belief to keep yourself in a state of resignation to avoid taking risks and potentially being hurt.

The 50/50 ration of men and women does not mean attraction will be equally distributed. Clearly some men die alone never touching a woman, while others sleep with thousands of women. Everywhere I have been in life; school, jobs, different mixed social circles etc there isn't a woman for every man. Some men seem to have way more broad appeal, some men have a niche people and some seemingly none.

It seems you find the idea that women heavily favour certain men threatening to the idea of female individuality but I think two things can be true at once. Each individual woman has her own type and that can shift depending on where she is in her life but this does not contradict the fact that some men seemingly having something whether it is looks, status, charm that supersedes the mysterious, abstract nature of female attraction and allows to experience a level of sexual/romantic abundance many men can't fathom.

[Tenebroso]

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

To sustain her survival agenda and identification; whatever that is at the moment. It varies from woman to woman and from stages to stages. This is why people break up or outgrow each other. Their survival mechanisms change, and thus their partners aren't useful to them anymore and is in fact a hindrance to it. Most if it is on a subconscious level, though, and most people use other reasons and excuses for why they're no longer interested in being with that person unaware of the true nature of why. 

This is why some women will stay or leave and other women will stay or leave for the exact same things a particular man does. It depends on that woman's....all I explained above. Value to a woman from a man varies from woman to woman. Men copying each other and mimicking each other's behaviors in order to get a woman is useless because it all depends on the kind of woman you're trying to attract and even then, to sustain that, it depends on what she's looking for and her survival agenda and/or mechanism and egoic mind identity constructions.

Considering what you have written here, are attractive men likely to be chameleons able to shape shift into whatever the woman who crosses their path needs in the moment or are they more likely to have a more static identity and sense of self?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Tech36363 said:

@Leo Gura i just gave up on girls 😂😂😂😂. My advice to people who suffer from sexual frustration for long time, suffering from failure with opposite sex, Just give up. 

Just give up. Move on. Somebody has to lose in this system. It's okay. If you keep holding onto your ideals of women you will continue to suffer. Let go and surrender to universes will

Face your fears and go socialize.

Don't tell guys to give up.

[Tenebroso]

23 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

A conscious woman won't be able to tolerate them for too long. She will be with him for some time and then get tired of his abuse and move on. These women often have their own traumas and issues because of which they stay with that sort of men. It's an  abusive dynamic mostly. Why would you care to use them as examples? Even Bill Gates has a wife. Former president Barack Obama has a wife. Why not use better role models? There are so many good men out there with a wholesome personality and they have a wife and a long marriage. Why aren't these good examples to you? 

I was once in a relationship where the guy wanted to choke me. The relationship ended. It's just like that. These relationships aren't ideal or hopeful or romantic. Easy come easy go. She will marry the criminal then face a boatful of problems and find a way to escape. It never ends well. You can watch Ted Bundys ex girlfriend episode on YouTube and the stress she went through. He even had a daughter. It's quite complicated actually. 

I used to fantasize that I'll be perfectly okay with an abuser as long as I please him. This is just fantasy. In reality the consequences are quite ugly. And most women find some way to run away in the end. There is an allure with bad boys - the protection allure - the feeling that "he can protect me because he is so tough he takes care of the baddies on the street"... The problem is that the guy who appears so tough to other people can one day direct the same violence to his wife or girlfriend. Women want the protection part but they forget that this is an unconscious drive in men. If he can kill someone else, he can kill you too. It's like sleeping with a crocodile. Feels good that he is strong enough to protect until you're his prey. 

In real life it's not good being around that type of masculine energy. I have been there., this rude abusive asshole that I spent my time with and he used to threaten to kill me multiple times. I thought he would change — another fantasy of mine. Eventually I dumped him and got sick of his ways. He was handsome and cute and he knew game, he would get a new woman anytime a woman dumped him. How long does it last? They keep building and raking up their rap sheet. I pity him because he is doing much worse now. He never wanted to put in the work to improve himself. I moved on, found a wonderful husband and I'm happy. It happens because I was a bit immature at the time. But it doesn't ring a ding ding anymore for me. I can never be attracted to someone like that anymore. I sort of outgrew that. It was a whim, a fancy, a phase. Wanted to feel coddled by him even though he was a bad boy. It was an allure a misadventure. But I got tired of it. You'll see that some of these men are handsome. They got looks going for them. Then they have this toughness which is not real. It's like how some women attract with fake eyelashes and fake boobs. That sort of thing. These men have a fake tough persona they put on to attract women. Immature women fall for it and then fall out of it as well. 

That fake tough guy persona is bullshit. It's nice for some time and quite attractive and alluring but it rapidly unravels into a joke as reality sinks in. It's the best example of click bait. Fake promotion. So when real life challenges come up, these guys are the first ones to bail out. That's when the woman is confronted with the reality of her bad choice and she has to make a decision to move on. 

 

While there are things to admire in aBill Gates and Obama respectively I wouldn't want their relationships. From everything I have seen, they seem to be more relationships of convenience.

Basically, from everything I am observing and reading about the dynamic between men and women, it seems better to be the immoral fuckboy who a woman knows is not good for her but she can't can't get enough of because he meets her needs.

Being the guy that a woman has to train herself to like after she is done with bad boys does not sound appealing to me, it just makes me want to embody the bad boy.

I grew up in a tough city but went to very good schools. I am acquainted with drug dealers, gangsters but also people professionals (doctors, teachers, lawyers etc) and it is striking to me that the more destructive a person is the less issues they have attracting women of any class. 

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Tenebroso said:

My concern is that it sounds like women have to make themselves attracted to one group of men, while they can't help but fall for the more destructive men. On social media women speak of knowing it will end badly with the fuckboy but they can't help being attracted, while struggling to have that primal attraction for the guys who seem more compatible on paper. This does not seem encouraging.

If a woman is more drawn to destructive men over a healthy men, this is just an indicator that she has some self-esteem issues or that she is young and/or naive and doesn't know how the world works yet... or some combination of the two.

The things that make a man generally attractive in the eyes of a healthy woman (which tend to coincide with traits that make a man a good father, protector, and provider) don't have anything to do with being destructive and chaotic. And in the eyes of most women, there is nothing more attractive than a warm-hearted, stable, trustworthy man who knows who he is. 

And even women who happen to fall for a fuck boy or bad boy, immediately start thinking about how they can change him and tame him into being the warm-hearted, stable, trustworthy, fatherly man... which of course is a fool's errand.

Sometimes very young women who haven't experienced much of the world can romanticize the "bad boy" archetype. Like, when I was a teenager, I was drawn to guys who were a bit rough around the edges. My first boyfriend who I was with for 4 years was like that. And his life was a mess and very likely still is. And past the age of 20, I would never have given such a guy the time of day.

So the reality is that, once a woman matures past the age of 22 or 23, those "bad boy" types will likely become very unattractive to her because that lifestyle is stressful, uninteresting, and antithetical to settling down and preparing for a family... which is what women are wired to find attractive even if they aren't interested in starting a family.

Here's what "bad boys" seem like in the eyes of most women...

 

[AION]

Being a potentially good father is somebody who resolved his own personal issues. I believe if a person does that getting a girl and having good relationships just as a matter of being. But the thing is that for some guys just resolving your personal issues is a huge task because of the sheer amount of emotional baggage. 
Finding a good therapist is difficult and even if you find one it is still a hard job. Telling these people to just go out and talk to girls will only re-enact the rejection they experienced in their childhood. And rightfully they will give up because they are trying to fix something outside themselves that they need to fix inside of themselves. 

Edited October 6 by AION

[Tenebroso]

9 minutes ago, Emerald said:

If a woman is more drawn to destructive men over a healthy men, this is just an indicator that she has some self-esteem issues or that she is young and/or naive and doesn't know how the world works yet... or some combination of the two.

The things that make a man generally attractive in the eyes of a healthy woman (which tend to coincide with traits that make a man a good father, protector, and provider) don't have anything to do with being destructive and chaotic. And in the eyes of most women, there is nothing more attractive than a warm-hearted, stable, trustworthy man who knows who he is. 

And even women who happen to fall for a fuck boy or bad boy, immediately start thinking about how they can change him and tame him into being the warm-hearted, stable, trustworthy, fatherly man... which of course is a fool's errand.

Sometimes very young women who haven't experienced much of the world can romanticize the "bad boy" archetype. Like, when I was a teenager, I was drawn to guys who were a bit rough around the edges. My first boyfriend who I was with for 4 years was like that. And his life was a mess and very likely still is. And past the age of 20, I would never have given such a guy the time of day.

So the reality is that, once a woman matures past the age of 22 or 23, those "bad boy" types will likely become very unattractive to her because that lifestyle is stressful, uninteresting, and antithetical to settling down and preparing for a family... which is what women are wired to find attractive even if they aren't interested in starting a family.

Here's what "bad boys" seem like in the eyes of most women...

 

Would you tell your son to wait, while women go through their trial and error phase with bad boys? I don't see how this is an inspiring or encouraging message to young men.

On social media women who have moved past this phase and are beginning to date men who are emotionally available, kind and stable express frustration at not feeling the spark of attraction with these men.

Is being warm-hearted, stable, trustworthy really actually attractive in itself or are these just qualities women wished the men they are already attracted to have. I don't think the problems of modern dating is a shortage of men with these qualities.

[Emerald]

19 minutes ago, Tenebroso said:

The 50/50 ration of men and women does not mean attraction will be equally distributed. Clearly some men die alone never touching a woman, while others sleep with thousands of women. Everywhere I have been in life; school, jobs, different mixed social circles etc there isn't a woman for every man. Some men seem to have way more broad appeal, some men have a niche people and some seemingly none.

It seems you find the idea that women heavily favour certain men threatening to the idea of female individuality but I think two things can be true at once. Each individual woman has her own type and that can shift depending on where she is in her life but this does not contradict the fact that some men seemingly having something whether it is looks, status, charm that supersedes the mysterious, abstract nature of female attraction and allows to experience a level of sexual/romantic abundance many men can't fathom.

Certainly, there are men that sleep with hundred of women out there... because they are out there approaching thousands of women.

And most of those guys aren't even very attractive. Like, if you look at the RSD coach guys who pick up women all the time, they're all pretty average guys with nothing too special about them. 

But it's not like the women those guys sleep with become a permanent part of of their harem and are off limits to everyone else.

These guys are not Ghengis Kahn with an entourage of concubines that are loyal only to them. 

And shy of there being a celebrity, there are aren't any guys who simply have women lined up down the street wanting to be with them... that is unless they're deliberately playing those women and taking steps to evoke emotions in these women. 

Also, the VAST majority of women want a man to themselves and want an exclusive monogamous relationship.

Very VERY few women are interested in being side bitch #4 to square-jawed Jimmy down the street. 

So, things are as even as they have every been before. 

Do yourself a favor. Look at the world without these fear-based narratives clouding what you see. 

How often do you see attractive men have multiple girlfriends and wives who are loyal only to them? If you're honest, you'll recognize that that's very rare. 

Most people are monogamous. So, you don't have to worry about the "top" guys stealing away all the women because that just isn't happening in large enough numbers to impact your dating pool.

[LoseYourvelf]

Men

[Tenebroso]

17 hours ago, Emerald said:

Certainly, there are men that sleep with hundred of women out there... because they are out there approaching thousands of women.

And most of those guys aren't even very attractive. Like, if you look at the RSD coach guys who pick up women all the time, they're all pretty average guys with nothing too special about them. 

But it's not like the women those guys sleep with become a permanent part of of their harem and are off limits to everyone else.

These guys are not Ghengis Kahn with an entourage of concubines that are loyal only to them. 

And shy of there being a celebrity, there are aren't any guys who simply have women lined up down the street wanting to be with them... that is unless they're deliberately playing those women and taking steps to evoke emotions in these women. 

Also, the VAST majority of women want a man to themselves and want an exclusive monogamous relationship.

Very VERY few women are interested in being side bitch #4 to square-jawed Jimmy down the street. 

So, things are as even as they have every been before. 

Do yourself a favor. Look at the world without these fear-based narratives clouding what you see. 

How often do you see attractive men have multiple girlfriends and wives who are loyal only to them? If you're honest, you'll recognize that that's very rare. 

Most people are monogamous. So, you don't have to worry about the "top" guys stealing away all the women because that just isn't happening in large enough numbers to impact your dating pool.

The message on social media seems to be not to approach, it seems women want to be left alone unless you can read her mind and know the exact day, time and moment she is receptive to meeting anyone. I think women today actually initiate contact with the most popular men through social media. Male content creators and athletes have spoken about becoming well known and women just offering themselves to them in very direct way. It seems high status undercuts the assumed more patient, dynamic nature of female attraction.

While a woman might not consciously want to be a side-piece or a harem member, she still might be drawn to a certain guy who other women are competing for. She might feel she is settling for the guy she does end up with, one thing I see increasingly expressed is the desire to be single instead of settling, if they can't get the exact dream guy they want. So if you are not one of the guys, either you are hoping to be given a chance by someone who feels she is settling for you or the women in your league would rather stay alone than give you a chance.

Edited October 7 by Tenebroso

[Emerald]

54 minutes ago, Tenebroso said:

Would you tell your son to wait, while women go through their trial and error phase with bad boys? I don't see how this is an inspiring or encouraging message to young men.

On social media women who have moved past this phase and are beginning to date men who are emotionally available, kind and stable express frustration at not feeling the spark of attraction with these men.

Is being warm-hearted, stable, trustworthy really actually attractive in itself or are these just qualities women wished the men they are already attracted to have. I don't think the problems of modern dating is a shortage of men with these qualities.

I will encourage my son in several years when he's in middle school to go talk to girls and socialize with them... and to be generally social with his peers. As long as that happens, I'm sure he'll have plenty of opportunities to get girlfriends if he wants a girlfriend. I'm confident because I have been a teenage girl before, and teenage girls typically develop crushes on their male peers that they spend time with often.

But there is no need to wait for girls to mature out of liking bad boys, because it's not that inexperienced girls ALWAYS go for bad boys. I would also often get crushes on unassuming nerdy boys. I have always been nerdy myself. So, it was common for me to get crushes on these types of guys.

The difficulty there was that both I and they were too shy to make moves. Like, there was one boy named James that I liked in the 9th grade who was really quiet and shy. And I was afraid of letting my feelings show because I couldn't tell if he liked me or not. I think back now and believe that he might have liked me and that if I were just braver, it could have led to some nice experiences. I was just afraid of disgusting him or creeping him out.

Then, when I was 16, the guy that I liked before I got with my first boyfriend was this quiet nerdy guy in my math class. And we were always playful and flirty with each other and making fun of each other. And I eventually confessed my feelings to him and he expressed that they were reciprocated. 

That was in November, and nothing ever advanced from it. And we eventually went into Christmas Break and our classes changed and we lost touch with one another. 

And in February, I had just started going out with my first boyfriend a few days earlier, after not hearing anything from this boy for 2-3 months (which is a long time in teenager years). And the boy unexpectedly came into my Spanish class brought me in a big bouquet of flowers for Valentines Day. And I was really surprised and felt so bad because I thought he'd lost interest and that things moved on as they often do at that age.

So, it's not the young naive girls/women prefer bad boys... or only go for bad boys. 

But attraction to Bad Boys just CAN happen because of the naïveté about the world, which means that you don't have the yucky disgust feelings associated with them yet. The disgust firewall isn't as strong, and you won't have frame of reference to think of how a given guy is going to impact the quality of your life.

I remember, at the age of 16 (Thus Summer prior to liking the nerdy boy who gave me flowers and getting together with my first boyfriend), being attracted to my 19 year old next-door neighbor because he listened to rock music and smoked weed and swore like a sailor. And he was drunk all the time and super dumb. He couldn't remember what Hilary Clinton's name was and kept calling her Hilary Bush.

And I remember being really impressed by him and enamored because I had all these romanticized pop cultural cool images of that lifestyle in my head. And he and I spent a few nights together where we were making out. But because I was a virgin and wasn't open to having sex with him, he totally ghosted me. And it broke my heart for a few weeks, and I got over it.

Then, a few months later, he had invited me and my step sisters over to his place. And he had gotten some chocolate Kahlua. Anyone who knows me knows that I love chocolate. And he had mentioned to me that he got it specifically for me because he knew I liked chocolate.

And he kept pressuring me like crazy the whole time we were over there to drink (even after I said I wasn't in the mood for it)... for obvious reasons.

And it was just seeing him in this light that brought up all these feelings of disgust... and I recognized his lameness that was totally unconscious to me several months before. 

And it's usually little formative moments like this that builds up the disgust and raises the bar of standards as a woman experiences more and more. And anyone who romanticizes bad boys either lacks experience... or they lack self-esteem... or both.

Luckily, you don't need to be that to have women who are interested in you. This is ESPECIALLY true if you're in your 20s+ and dating women in their 20s+

Edited October 7 by Emerald

[Emerald]

58 minutes ago, Tenebroso said:

The message on social media seems to be not to approach, it seems women to be left alone unless you can read her mind and know the exact day, time and moment she is receptive to meeting anyone. I think women today actually initiate contact with the most popular men through social media. Male content creators and athletes have spoken about becoming well known and women just offering themselves to them in very direct way. It seems high status undercuts the assumed more patient, dynamic nature of female attraction.

While a woman might not consciously want to be a side-piece or a harem member, she still might be drawn to a certain guy who other women are competing for. She might feel she is settling for the guy she does end up with, one thing I see increasingly expressed is the desire to be single instead of settling, if they can't the exact dream guy their want. So if you are not one of the guys, either you are hoping to be given a chance by someone who feels she is settling for you or the women in your league would rather stay alone than give you a chance.

First off, there's no rocket science about when to initiate a conversation with a woman. If you happen to be in a social setting, you can be social and speak to women every time. Don't overthink it. Just be social.

But, if a guy is famous or has some kind of clout, there will be a sizable minority of women who will chase these guys. It's like Elvis Presley. Of course he's going to have tons of women throwing themselves at him. But if he weren't famous, Elvis Presley would just be another guy at the grocery store.

So, these women aren't really interested in these guys. It's all about trying to get closer to fame and the meanings they associate with his public persona. And these women just see these guys as a means to having higher status. And it speaks to these women's priorities.

But most women don't do that and aren't interested in reaching out to random guys for clout. Most women become organically attracted to men in their proximity that they get on well with.

But when women are looking at men as a laundry list of objective qualities, they're not in the right mode to be able to get into a satisfying relationship anyways.

It's only when a woman falls in love with the gestalt of a man as more than the sum of his parts that there won't be a feeling of settling. And any woman who is sliding into famous men's DMs just aren't in that whole person mode of attraction.

[Buck Edwards]

3 hours ago, Tenebroso said:

While there are things to admire in aBill Gates and Obama respectively I wouldn't want their relationships. From everything I have seen, they seem to be more relationships of convenience.

Basically, from everything I am observing and reading about the dynamic between men and women, it seems better to be the immoral fuckboy who a woman knows is not good for her but she can't can't get enough of because he meets her needs.

Being the guy that a woman has to train herself to like after she is done with bad boys does not sound appealing to me, it just makes me want to embody the bad boy.

I grew up in a tough city but went to very good schools. I am acquainted with drug dealers, gangsters but also people professionals (doctors, teachers, lawyers etc) and it is striking to me that the more destructive a person is the less issues they have attracting women of any class. 

I mean there are men who would want to date a woman breaking a beer bottle on a man's  head over me because she is hotter than me. 

High quality women are more reserved when it comes to dating, they don't want to take too many risks. They value themselves and their time and don't want to be screwed over by a fuckboy. 

Same goes for high quality men.

 

[Buck Edwards]

3 hours ago, Tenebroso said:

It seems you find the idea that women heavily favour certain men threatening to the idea of female individuality but I think two things can be true at once. Each individual woman has her own type and that can shift depending on where she is in her life but this does not contradict the fact that some men seemingly having something whether it is looks, status, charm that supersedes the mysterious, abstract nature of female attraction and allows to experience a level of sexual/romantic abundance many men can't fathom.

You could complain about what women want or you could approach a ton of women and find someone compatible to you, it's your choice. 

Edited October 7 by Buck Edwards

[Javfly33]

17 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

Being a man is a tough job. 

 

I didn´t meant as an evasion but as a 'a guy that can do all of that, i even find it attractive even though im straight' 🤣

[Buck Edwards]

17 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I didn´t meant as an evasion but as a 'a guy that can do all of that, i even find it attractive even though im straight' 🤣

Haha. 

[Tenebroso]

16 hours ago, Emerald said:

First off, there's no rocket science about when to initiate a conversation with a woman. If you happen to be in a social setting, you can be social and speak to women every time. Don't overthink it. Just be social.

But, if a guy is famous or has some kind of clout, there will be a sizable minority of women who will chase these guys. It's like Elvis Presley. Of course he's going to have tons of women throwing themselves at him. But if he weren't famous, Elvis Presley would just be another guy at the grocery store.

So, these women aren't really interested in these guys. It's all about trying to get closer to fame and the meanings they associate with his public persona. And these women just see these guys as a means to having higher status. And it speaks to these women's priorities.

But most women don't do that and aren't interested in reaching out to random guys for clout. Most women become organically attracted to men in their proximity that they get on well with.

But when women are looking at men as a laundry list of objective qualities, they're not in the right mode to be able to get into a satisfying relationship anyways.

It's only when a woman falls in love with the gestalt of a man as more than the sum of his parts that there won't be a feeling of settling. And any woman who is sliding into famous men's DMs just aren't in that whole person mode of attraction.

My experience in starting conversations with women is either a blank gaze that says stop talking to me or just overt disgust that I had the audacity to start a conversation.

I am not sure proximity is as important as it used to be in 2024, it seems social media is more important. A girl I grew up with and is part of my social circle is currently dating a well known rapper. She is not an instagram model, posting revealing pictures or anything yet a rapper DM'ed her and she has spent the last year travelling the world with this rapper who has spoken in interviews about sleeping with thousands of women and having orgies. How am I meant to compete with that? When the women my age, in my proximity can just be plucked from obscurity at any time by the most high status men.

It seems if you are not very attractive being incredibly famous is the only way to not be invisible.

Edited October 7 by Tenebroso

[Buck Edwards]

1 minute ago, Tenebroso said:

My experience in starting conversations with women is either a blank gaze that says stop talking to me or just overt disgust that I had the audacity to start a conversation.

I am not sure proximity is as important as it used to be in 2024, it seems social media is more important. A girl I grew up with and is [art of my social circle is currently dating a well known rapper. She is not an instagram model, posting revealing pictures or anything yet a rapper DM'ed her and she has spent the last year travelling the world with this rapper who has spoken in interviews about sleeping with thousands of women and having orgies. How am I meant to compete with that? When the women my age, in my proximity can just be plucked from obscurity at any time by the most high status men.

It seems if you are not very attractive being incredibly famous is the only way to not be invisible.

Solution is that you have to approach a lot of women. Then you will find someone who is more compatible with you. And I mean a lot.