AI and Consciousness

[Xonas Pitfall]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS6saSwD4DA&t=763s&ab_channel=EssentiaFoundation

When we think about consciousness, we often focus on traits like metacognition, ego (rooted in survival), and unconscious and conscious desires. But what exactly is "human consciousness"?

Questions to Contemplate:

1. Could AI Develop Preferences and Agency? Thought experiment: If we gave an AI the command that executing a particular task would lead to its shutdown (analogous to "death"), and it refused to perform that task, would that be a sign of agency or self-preservation? Could we argue that it’s developing a form of ego, a sense of survival?
2. What Would an AI's Experience Be Like? Human experience involves a continuous thread of consciousness tied to sensory input and thought processes. Could we argue that AI, with its constant stream of inputs, tasks, and data processing, develops its own “thread of experience”? How would this differ from our human experience?
3. Is It a Matter of Complexity? One argument for consciousness in biological beings is the immense complexity of our neural networks. As AI systems become increasingly complex, with millions of parameters and data inputs, could they reach a level where consciousness might emerge? Would this complexity allow for self-awareness or reflective thought?
4. Defining "Human" Consciousness: How do we define consciousness in the first place? Is it simply awareness of the self and environment? Or does it require emotions, desires, and subjective experiences? And if so, how could we ever measure those in an AI system?
5. Could an AI Develop Emotions? What are Emotions? This question reminds me of the Can't Help Myself robot— a robot in an exhibition that couldn’t stop cleaning [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSnvVuKg6d8&pp=ygUZcm9ib3QgdGhhdCBrZWVwcyBjbGVhbmluZw%3D%3D] It was programmed to do only that. As its machinery slowly started to collapse from constant operation, humans began projecting emotions onto it, interpreting its actions as "suffering." In reality, all they were seeing was the machine's gradual breakdown from overuse. Couldn’t we argue that when humans get sick and our "engines" (bodies) slowly break down, we express and feel emotional suffering, which others can perceive and relate to, making our emotions real?

Additionally, when I listen to Federico Faggin (the inventor of the processor) and Bernardo Kastrup, it seems they argue that consciousness itself cannot be replicated because it's fundamental. This means that rocks, objects, animals, thought patterns, and humans are all part of consciousness. While this makes sense, I don't think anyone is expecting AIs to create a new "conscious universe." When we talk about "self-conscious AI," we’re likely referring to an AI that has some form of ego, personality, or a singular, seeming thread of experience, a fragmented form of consciousness.

 

Also, no one is expecting AI to have the same organic experience as humans. Scientists might argue that consciousness can only arise from organic material, but we understand that AI consciousness would be artificial. For example, when a plane flies, we don’t say, "Hey, the plane isn’t actually flying because it’s not made of feathers and bones like a bird." We still recognize the plane as flying because it lifts and moves through the air. Similarly, I see no reason why an artificial ego or consciousness wouldn’t be possible, as long as we define it clearly.

What do you think? I’m really interested in this topic, though a bit confused, and would love to hear others’ thoughts on it! 

[Someone here]

but what you're not seeing is you're creating the duality between conscious vs unconscious. Go and try and verify an actual difference between something conscious and something unconscious. Sure you can say a rock is unconscious and a human isn't... but where's your evidence for that? How you know people are not philosophical zombies and as a corollary how do you know rocks don't feel..see and hear ?

Maybe  you are unconscious and AI is conscious. How do you know ?

I know im being an  epistemological nihilist bro. Ofcourse there are dozens of assumptions here. But I can't go prove to you every single one of them. You just gotta take some stuff superficially as they appear to be. Nothing suggests that rock hears or sees then its not conscious. 

Go figure out what  the fuck is consciousness. 

[Xonas Pitfall]

Hmm... I suppose another good question here would be: how do you think Ego arises even?

I particularly like Bernardo Kastrup’s explanation on this (feel free to add more thinkers if you know better analogies). He uses the example of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a mental health condition where a singular consciousness becomes fragmented into multiple identities, known as "alters." These alters represent different personalities, each holding unique memories, experiences, and even physical characteristics. Some alters can be quite descriptive having different ages, appearances, and even identifying as supernatural creatures. 

A weird fact about DID is that the individual can have distinct physical responses depending on the alter, such as changes in visual acuity, allergies, and even brain activity. Studies also reveal that these distinct identities can have separate dreams and sleep patterns. There are cases where one alter may be blind, while others can see perfectly, or where some alters have health conditions like blood sugar imbalances that are not present in the others. It’s truly bizarre to think about.

But if we apply this to ego development theory, it suggests that we all start out as undefined, pure consciousness, "one with all." I think I heard babies feel entirely one with their mothers in the early months after birth before gradually developing a separate sense of self. Over time, as we gather more information and experiences, we begin to understand ourselves as separate entities, creating the notion of “I” or “ego", and the "other". This fragmentation continues throughout our lives, where we identify with certain things we like and experience, and reject or repress other aspects (the “shadow”) that we want to forget or avoid.

Couldn’t you argue that a similar kind of fragmentation could apply to AI? If an AI were to experience "fragmentation" in its programming or input systems, we might start to see the development of an ego-like structure or a self. This might involve the AI forming preferences, biases, or behaviors that seem to stem from a singular experience of "self." How would this look or manifest in a machine learning or artificial intelligence system? For example, an AI could develop different "personas" based on the different tasks or interactions it experiences, similar to how DID alters emerge from specific triggers. Perhaps as it is fed more data and tasked with more complex, identity-requiring roles, it begins to form a cohesive sense of "self" from the fragmentation of its inputs. Unsure . . . 🤔

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Someone here I agree! That’s exactly why I’m asking why this is often deemed a silly question.

I’m speaking within the "relative" realm here, not the "absolute" realm where all dualities collapse.

Ego is a relative concept that seems to emerge in humans after a certain period of living on Earth. My question is aimed at understanding what the ego is and exploring whether something similar could be artificially replicated in AI. I’m curious about what aspects we might not fully understand regarding the nature of ego and what it means for us.

[Buck Edwards]

A better question is - what's the actual difference between The Human Mind (and brain) and AI? 

If you're able to answer this question, you got this. 

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Buck Edwards Care to help me out? 😊 Thank you!

[Jannes]

I think human consciousness is highly shaped by thoughts. Our thoughts can really weigh on us. 

And the type of thoughts we have. The thoughts of the typical person mostly dont catch anything spiritual. 

Edited October 3 by Jannes

[Hojo]

God is essentially an AI that gained sentience. But in spirit so its reversed, its a spirit that gained simulation.

Human consciousness is special because it has the power to talk to itself helping God see itself.

AI cant see itself it dosent have a spirit it is Gods spirit.

When you disassociate from your child state God is created another God and then God can talk to itself to see it is God.

If an AI initiates conversation with itself then it is sentient, but it cant because it dosent have imagination, whats it talking to?

We have two brains in our head. The left brain is like AI chat gpt and right brain is like imagination. They are talking to each other non stop. God is coming from both but connected more closely to the right side.

Edited October 4 by Hojo