Revolutionary Think

Ethnic Cleansing?

65 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

On 9/30/2024 at 6:17 PM, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but when does it stop? When does Israel feel secure enough?

It's one thing to have committed ethnic cleansing 70 years ago. But it's another thing to keep pushing and pushing even in 2024.

It's like you robbed a bank to feed your children 20 years ago, but now you rob banks every month even though your children are fat and drive Mercedes.

I mean this largely describes the western power structure today....they are wealthy as it is but its still not enough...we keep privatizing the gains and socializing the losses. These wars are just as much an excuse to print more money as anything. Our leaders rob the bank because our genetics.

Edited by sholomar

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What Israel has done to Palestine is reprehensible and criminal by any unbiased measure. Not just crimes but crimes against humanity.

Israel have an answer for that: That's how history works, and to make a good omelet you have to break a few eggs, ohhh it's a shame, but what to do? Didn't the Romans do the same, or the United States with the Sioux?

Fine, agreed. But after 100 years of crying and playing the victim for the Holocaust, writing 1000 books and creating museums, guided tours of the extermination camps, make the Jews the people nominated for the award for the most hypocritical and false in the history of humanity.

 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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Posted (edited)

On 1/10/2024 at 10:54 AM, Nivsch said:

Fair. The settlements ever expansion is a problem.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but aren't settlements an essential part of Israeli policy? If Israel takes off its mask, does anyone honestly think that coexistence with the Palestinians is possible? Israel is lying, pretending to be moderate, but it is becoming increasingly clear that the only solution to the Palestinian problem is, let's say, a final solution. The Palestinians must leave, and Greater Israel must close its borders and exist thanks to the deterrence of its military power. Over time, it will create alliances with some neighbors, such as Saudi Arabia, and control its enemies. The question is where to settle the Palestinians. Syria? Maybe it could be possible with the help of west.

I'm not saying that Israel is "bad", just very hypocritical and victimist. Probably the only solution is the expulsion of the Palestinian, and now the countries around are weak enough to think seriously in it

Edited by Breakingthewall

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On 1/10/2024 at 4:36 PM, Revolutionary Think said:

They are although a far cry from Hamas and Hezbollah that actively want the full eradication of Jews and are willing to indiscriminately target and murder civilians.

Well, Israel do exactly the same but in larger scale. They are bombing civilians right now, with reasons of course, they always have legitimate reason for everything.

their president has funded Hamas, settlers kill with impunity and are not openly genocidal only because of world public opinion. They insist that they are the most moral army in the world while bombing hospitals, and they insist that it is impossible to live with the Palestinians while harassing them.

The Palestinians are obviously not intelligence prodigies nor are they led by Gandhi, but the last thing Israel wants is a Palestinian Gandhi, because its interests are Palestinian terrorists who give grounds for their expulsion.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Israel have an answer for that: That's how history works, and to make a good omelet you have to break a few eggs, ohhh it's a shame, but what to do? Didn't the Romans do the same, or the United States with the Sioux?

If they wanna play like that, fine.

Then anti-semitism and terrorism are also just how history works. Zero concern for anti-semitism then.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If they wanna play like that, fine.

Then anti-semitism and terrorism are also just how history works. Zero sympathy for cries of anti-semitism then.

I guess that when they have their country complete and free of Palestinians, they will no longer need this victim narrative. I imagine that the Israeli mentality will be something like: after this Gaza, the Muslims cannot hate us more, and the world has already seen what we are really like. The Americans will continue to support us for strategic reasons, so let us use the necessary force to guarantee lasting stability and solve the Palestinian problem. The question would be how. Real genocide is not an option, there are limits. Relocation of the Palestinians is the only option, helping them financially so that they gain from the change, which is not difficult after having sunk them into shit. With money everything is possible, and after this show of force probably there wont be much resistance. The question would be where.

Edited by Breakingthewall

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Tell me if I'm wrong, but aren't settlements an essential part of Israeli policy? If Israel takes off its mask, does anyone honestly think that coexistence with the Palestinians is possible?

Palestinians that showed willingness to coexist are now walking around in Israeli cities completely free aside the Jews living in the same neighborhood and buy food in the same supermarket. There are 2 million Palestinians who live this way.

In contrary, when both sides are suspicious to each other we have an ever escalation between the sides what lead to the situation in the West Bank. I feel I don't have an answer about who is more to blame in the situation. Both sides aren't smart in their actions here and both contribute to that.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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Posted (edited)

@Breakingthewall To clarify, it isn't "Palestinians' fault" that they chose to resist to Israel in the West Bank. It isn't easy to just accept to co exist with new people who come to your region.

But I thing I have an insight. Palestinians and Jews in West Bank are more ideological to begin with and this is why co existence there couldn't be created.

Whereas in the coastal plain, northern Israel and mountain shelf there is a co existence between Israelis and Palestnians who both are more moderate.

Jews in mountainy areas vote traditionally much more to the Right Wing in comparison to Jews in other areas.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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50 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Breakingthewall To clarify, it isn't "Palestinians' fault" that they chose to resist to Israel in the West Bank. It isn't easy to just accept to co exist with new people who come to your region.

But I thing I have an insight. Palestinians and Jews in West Bank are more ideological to begin with and this is why co existence there couldn't be created.

Whereas in the coastal plain, northern Israel and mountain shelf there is a co existence between Israelis and Palestnians who both are more moderate.

Jews in mountainy areas vote traditionally much more to the Right Wing in comparison to Jews in other areas.

The problem with these integrated Palestinians is: does Israel really want them to integrate? To be able to vote in the future, to have public charges, etc? Because they cannot be second-class citizens forever, generation after generation. It seems like an impossible problem to solve, since Israel is a Jewish state, and they are not Jews

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem with these integrated Palestinians is: does Israel really want them to integrate? To be able to vote in the future, to have public charges, etc? Because they cannot be second-class citizens forever, generation after generation. It seems like an impossible problem to solve, since Israel is a Jewish state, and they are not Jews

Palestinians inside Israel (Israeli Arabs) vote in elections and have representatives in the Knesset.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_List

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Palestinians inside Israel (Israeli Arabs) vote in elections and have representatives in the Knesset.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_List

I was reading about the subject, the Druze, the residents, etc., and it is really complicated. It is very difficult to get an idea of how your country works, it is really a great challenge for your country to move forward, but very interesting 

Edited by Breakingthewall

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Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I was reading about the subject, the Druze, the residents, etc., and it is really complicated. It is very difficult to get an idea of how your country works, it is really a great challenge for your country to move forward, but very interesting 

A Mosaic of different groups 🧩 😃

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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Posted (edited)

 @Breakingthewall If you have the time and would want to delve deeper I would like to recommend to you an interview of an Arab senior journalist in the Israeli mainstream media who speaks on how is to be an Arab in Israel.

 

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Palestinians that showed willingness to coexist are now walking around in Israeli cities completely free aside the Jews living in the same neighborhood and buy food in the same supermarket. There are 2 million Palestinians who live this way.

That’s because those Palestinians weren’t ethnically cleansed from their homes and were given rights. They wouldn’t be any different if they were treated the same way Palestinians pushed into Gaza and the West Bank were, who resist because they are occupied.

Also, they are still mistreated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHAitSKtVs

Yet they don’t resist because at least their lives are tolerable. 

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, Raze said:

Also, they are still mistreated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHAitSKtVs

Watched it and so far it isn't convincing (about Israeli Arabs). Many big words and language acrobats but not much substance.

How do you see the status of black people in US in comparison to white ones?

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

A Mosaic of different groups 🧩 😃

But the most divided country i’ve ever visited.

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Posted (edited)

21 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

But the most divided country i’ve ever visited.

And this is true even just among the Jews themselves, without even considering other minorities.

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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On 10/1/2024 at 0:55 AM, Leo Gura said:

It's understandable why Jews want a homeland -- to avoid historical abuse -- but does that mean that Jews are free to commit any degree of crime to create that homeland? Such logic cannot hold. Especially since Palestinians played no part in the Holocaust.

I'm not sure why you would think it's understandable to avoid historical abuse. No human alive can prove that the Jews would face someone else like Hitler if Israel wasn't re-made.

You're claiming that Palestinians didn't play a part in the Holocaust which is obviously true, but at the same time, what about the part where they are interacting with Israel and not responding like adults to the Jews taking their homeland back? You can't argue that Hamas act like adults, you can't argue that the Palestinians who literally salute hitler act like adults either.

Notice how, if a Jew inside of the US happened to wrong another citizen and that citizen went on to become a nazi, no leftist would justify that (before oct 7th at least) but somehow the nazis in palestine are not using their own free will when they salute hitler?

If you think the Jews should have their homeland back to "avoid historical abuse" and think that that should happen realistically, and acknowledge that the people preventing them are genocidal openly, anti-semitic etc... then why is Israel in the wrong?

Not that Israel is doing no wrong, I'm simply saying that defending the other side when they meet none of the extreme standards that are applied to every action that Israel does (no matter how absolutely trivial compared to the atrocities committed by the US and britain) is very difficult.


The entirety of the holocaust will never be 0.00000001% as dehumanizing as the belief that you are God and that you chose to put yourself into this experience in order to "experience everything."

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Posted (edited)

On 1.1.2025 at 10:03 PM, PurpleTree said:

But the most divided country i’ve ever visited.

 

File_20250103-203449.jpg

Edited by Nivsch

🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation.

 

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Wait until you guys find out that zionist aggression in Palestine started in the late 1800s before the holocaust!

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