How to deal with Hashimotos?

[Leo Gura]

@Clarence Stop gaslighting yourself. You have a physical disorder that needs fixing.

[Scholar]

On 22.11.2024 at 4:33 PM, Michael569 said:

@Scholar  could you share an update on the topic? Have you eventually found anything that helped? 

Not really, I'm still working on it. I can feel normal for a week or so if I take low iodine supplements, 25mcg, together with selenium. But then I have to take significant break because symptoms will worsen.

 

On 22.11.2024 at 4:57 PM, Leo Gura said:

If you have Hashimotos or any autoimmune disorder you should get a prescription for Low Dose Naltrexone. It helps about 70% of people modulate their overactive immune system. It's the best thing I found in 15 years of trying stuff.

That stuff is super expensive.

[Thought Art]

@Adam M What is MM?

[Thought Art]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because the body automatically heals itself from most conditions. Which is why you can attribute healing to almost any event: prayer, meditation, dancing, Reiki, supplements, weed, CBD oil, celery juice, or whatever.

Doing nothing will heal you in many cases. Of course not if you have a serious disorder.

When people tell you they got healed by X, mostly they are just deceiving themselves because they haven't done any rigorous scientific analaysis of their own case. They just believe whatever suits their worldview. And people who claim to heal themselves believe in all sorts of fantasies.

A side note, as I don’t believe these things can heal thyroid issues like we are discussing here. But, a general point. 
 

Placebo is a strong healing modality. Yes, the body naturally heals most things. But, placebo plays a role, and can aid healing. There is science and studies showing this. Being more relaxed, good energy circulation, and calm clear mind, positive intention… (meditation, reiki, prayer, dancing) can of course lead to healing and health. It’s a mindbody system that we are comprised of. Somatic practices like yoga, dance, etc are good for you. 
 

The body naturally heals, these modalities can aid in that natural healing process. By allowing the bodies system to harmonize and run more smoothly, your body may heal things. Many diseases may come from the body being out of balance, stress, etc. So, yes these things can play a role in healing many lifestyle created diseases by bringing more harmony into the system. 
 

This thyroid issues doesn’t sound like a lifestyle disease and likely requires more serious medical intervention. Knowing when to use what healing modality requires maturity and education. 

You can straw man these things, and of course point to fantasies in the healing space. But, there is of course healing and health benefits to meditation, dancing etc. But, these are complimentary, life style, preventative and maintenance type healing modalities. Calling them fantasies I think is false over generalization. 
 

Now, these general mind body cures don’t help with serious diseases like H. 
 

chatgpt:

The conversation in the screenshot touches on two perspectives about self-healing, the body’s natural processes, and the attribution of healing to specific practices or beliefs. Here are some reflections:

    1.    The Role of Natural Healing: It’s true that the human body has remarkable self-healing capabilities, such as immune responses and cellular repair. Many conditions resolve on their own without specific interventions, which can lead to the perception that a particular practice or substance was responsible for the healing.

    2.    Placebo Effect and Belief: Belief in a healing method, whether it’s meditation, supplements, or other modalities, can activate the placebo effect. This doesn’t mean the method is ineffective; rather, the mind-body connection plays a significant role in outcomes, especially for conditions influenced by stress and perception.

    3.    Serious Disorders and Medical Intervention: While some conditions may improve through lifestyle changes or alternative methods, serious disorders often require rigorous medical intervention. Over-reliance on anecdotal evidence or unproven methods for severe illnesses can lead to harm.

    4.    Skepticism of “Healing Narratives”: The point about people attributing healing to specific practices without scientific analysis is valid. Many anecdotal claims are not rigorously tested, leading to misleading conclusions. However, dismissing all non-scientific approaches as “fantasies” may oversimplify the complex interplay between physiology, psychology, and belief systems.

    5.    Body’s Intent to Survive: The idea that the body inherently wants to survive aligns with evolutionary biology. However, autoimmunity and other conditions suggest that the body’s mechanisms can malfunction, challenging the view that the body “never attacks itself.”

 

In conclusion, while the body’s natural healing ability is impressive, a balanced approach that combines medical science, psychological factors, and holistic practices can often be the most effective. Dismissing one perspective entirely may ignore valuable insights from another.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Thought Art

[mavelezm]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is just a fact that the body is attacking itself. Why it happens is unknown. Could be a thousand reasons. The body is a very complex thing. There is no easy answer. Toxins seem to be a major factor but you can't rid many of them. So what you gonna do?

No, it is not a fact. But it's the most foolish and evil idea put out there.

 

[Thought Art]

@mavelezm Well, what is cancer?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Not really, I'm still working on it. I can feel normal for a week or so if I take low iodine supplements, 25mcg, together with selenium. But then I have to take significant break because symptoms will worsen.

DO NOT take iodine if you have Hashimotos!

Quote

That stuff is super expensive.

No. It's an inexpensive medicine. You can get a 3 month supply for $65.

Edited 19 hours ago by Leo Gura

[aurum]

10 hours ago, Adam M said:

Until then, we will be debating a topic that you aren't even familiar with due to your lack of open-mindedness and general stigma around the source of the info.

You've got the wrong understanding of me.

I've tried just about every alternative health fad there is out there in the spirit of open-mindedness, including your guru's celery juice. The vast majority of it has been a waste of time and money. Some of it has even been dangerous.

10 hours ago, Adam M said:

I just don't always need a person in a lab coat to tell me if I'm healed or not. I can feel it in my body. 

 But that isn't the debate we are having.

Of course it's possible that you improved after doing MM's protocol. 

The debate is what to attribute that to, along with all the secondary / tertiary inferences you are making about autoimmunity and mainstream science in general.

10 hours ago, Adam M said:

Also, I hate having to explain over and over again that there is 0 profit incentive to study the MM diet because it would obsolete a massive chunk of the entire pharmaceutical industry's products. It might cost $10 million to run a double blind study on his diet, and at the end of it all, nobody would profit because you can't patent lemon water, celery juice, and wild blueberries.

So, please don't be ignorant of the business incentives that drive modern science. Our system is stage orange. That means it sacrifices truth for profit.

Until we get to a yellow/turquoise science, you can't be betting all of your chips on that perspective. Especially not with health. You will get burned.

Why assume Stage Orange doesn't corrupt the alternative health space just as much, if not more?

Especially since it's less regulated by the government, which is really the only check we have on unfiltered, stage orange capitalism.

Alternative health is a gigantic industry that sacrifices truth for profit. Supplements, courses, retreats, books, coaching / consults, influencer marketing, sponsorships, medical devices, etc. Massive corruption is happening.

Also, it would be supremely impractical to research every protocol someone just pulls out of their ass. People disagree. How are we supposed to judge what is worth researching and what isn't? Usually you have to abide by basic societal agreements, like getting a license or degree.

So you can justify the lack of evidence for MM by saying no one is willing to research it, but this is hardly a strong argument in your favor.

10 hours ago, Adam M said:

And, again, when the day is done, there are still hundreds of mystery illnesses (the rates of which are climbing each year) that are completely unexplained by modern science, Hashimoto's being only one of them.

So, you're betting a lot on a system that doesn't even work in most cases of chronic / mystery illness.

Saying they are "completely unexplained" is a joke. We have decades of research and treatments for many of these conditions. Research that alternative health gurus like to piggyback on when doing their grift.

Yes, in the past medical science has mostly been focused on stopping people from dying from acute problems. Things like infectious disease, famine and blunt force trauma were top priority as a society to handle.

Now we've gotten much better at it, and the focus has shifted to more chronic conditions / aging. Alternative health gurus sometimes act like mainstream medicine is unaware of the problem of chronic disease, or that diet and lifestyle matter. But this is also a complete joke.

You can literally specialize in Preventive Medicine as a doctor and just work with people on this issues if you want:

https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/what-is-a-preventive-medicine-physician

At the end of the day, the weaknesses in mainstream medicine do not validate the efficacy of alternative medicine. That has to be separately evaluated. 

10 hours ago, Adam M said:

So, you're betting a lot on a system that doesn't even work in most cases of chronic / mystery illness.

I can understand being desperate and looking for a solution anywhere. Maybe you'll even find one. Just be careful what conclusions you draw from that.

 

 

[Adam M]

@aurum I agree, most alternative health is complete bullsh*t that is less regulated and even more harmful than conventional health. Your critiques are all valid.

Your mistake is lumping Medical Medium into the same category.

It's not the same.

Take Medical Medium out of the "alternative health" bucket in your mind. It's its own thing. 

There are hundreds (probably thousands) of doctors who use Medical Medium info alongside their conventional treatments to work on their patients. So, in this scenario, it's conventional medicine that is doing the piggybacking.

He doesn't do paid events, gives pretty much all of his info away for free. Doesn't sell supplements or anything like that. Literally only books (Most of which are available as audiobooks for free on his website, or even as PDF downloads).

He is just as generous as Leo with his info.

Again, your gripe with alternative healing is valid and warranted. I agree with all your points. I'm just trying to point out that the Medical Medium information is different. 

I've also been on the merry-go-round of alternative health ... trying to heal my stomach problems, eczema, and severe allergies.

I've been on and off Medical Medium for years...

But it was about 6 months ago (when my symptoms got really bad) that I had an intuition to return to the MM protocol which lead to "avalanche" of insight in my mind where I realized just how profound the MM info is. It truly is second to none in the health space.

Of course, my eczema and severe allergies and stomach issues, teeth issues, all completely gone within 6 months (Still working on the teeth problems, but swishing with celery juice each morning is helping slowly... it takes a while).

Again, I've done other "healthy diets" for many years. The specific MM protocols is what works.

I know it's a lot to take in at first. And you may not get it for another long while. But, this is the most advanced health info on planet Earth. And it works extremely well if you give it time and patience. If you don't deeply understand the info, you won't stick with it, and you won't get the results.

If you learn it and do it fully and properly. It works. Because it's true and accurate info.

[Clarence]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Clarence Stop gaslighting yourself. You have a physical disorder that needs fixing.

Thanks.

Though there isn't much cure at this point, except maybe Naltrexone which might be one of the best treatments, as you are reporting.

What kind of doctor can prescribe this medication for Hashimoto's? I guess my family doctor won't know about it. Is it about convincing any doctor to give a prescription?

[Leo Gura]

@Clarence You can get a prescription online. Use google.

Edited 16 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Clarence]

@Leo Gura Thanks. I'm not familiar with this method, but I'll look into it if I can't get one from my doctor.

Edited 16 hours ago by Clarence

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

DO NOT take iodine if you have Hashimotos!

But if you don't take any iodine how will the thyroid function in the first place?

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. It's an inexpensive medicine. You can get a 3 month supply for $65.

I wasn't looking for low dosage ones, they are much less expensive.

[LSD-Rumi]

why not just use levothyroxine? does it not work in your case?

 

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura Did you try injectable forms of Thyroxine? maybe your gut issues are preventing your body from absorbing the oral form.

[Scholar]

24 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

why not just use levothyroxine? does it not work in your case?

 

I do use levothyroxine of course but I don't really feel optimal on it.

[Fadl]

I saw miracles happening before.. many times .. 

Pray to God .. not his image .. not the solipsism version.. but the Unknown 

[aurum]

7 hours ago, Adam M said:

Your mistake is lumping Medical Medium into the same category.

It's not the same.

Take Medical Medium out of the "alternative health" bucket in your mind. It's its own thing. 

No. I don't accept this distinction you are making.

I've seen how MM does his consults with people. I've read some of his work and tried the celery juice thing. It's more than enough for me to recognize that what he is doing is nonsense. There is nothing unique, impressive or special about what he does. It's essentially pure grift.

He deserves to be placed in the category of alternative health crocodiles.

7 hours ago, Adam M said:

He doesn't do paid events, gives pretty much all of his info away for free. Doesn't sell supplements or anything like that. Literally only books (Most of which are available as audiobooks for free on his website, or even as PDF downloads).

He is just as generous as Leo with his info.

He is meeting his survival needs somehow through all this. The specifics of how he is doing it don't matter.

7 hours ago, Adam M said:

But, this is the most advanced health info on planet Earth.

Top-tier delusion.

[DianaFr]

What is your endocrinologist recommending? 

What are your blood TSH levels? 

You are referring to an extremely variable dose of levothyroxine, but you should have a steady dose of it every day, optimised according to your TSH level. 

I've got this thing as well. I'm taking my thyroxine pill (100 mcg) every morning right after I wake up and that's it. I'm feeling fine. Just trying to remember to do my yearly check-ups and occasional ultrasounds. 

Do you have any other health concerns that comes with this? 

 

[Michael569]

15 hours ago, Scholar said:

Not really, I'm still working on it. I can feel normal for a week or so if I take low iodine supplements, 25mcg, together with selenium. But then I have to take significant break because symptoms will worsen.

Sorry to hear this has been going on for you. I'm sure you've probably tried tons of things but maybe this could help a bit. This is an anonymous case study of someone I worked with. 

This lady was diagnosed with acute thyroiditis, probably of infectious origin. Not autoimmune, so slightly different to Hashimoto's. She had to go on a 2 months cycle of prenisone which wasn't great but it helped quench the inflammation although there were side effects. 

I recommended some blood tests to her doctor and after some examination, we found that her iron was critically low. Her vitamin D wasn't great either, and on top of that, she was recently made redundant and went through a lot of stress.

Even after that prednisone, she would often feel tingling in her thyroid as if the inflammation was trying to come back. Some things we did was@: replenish her iron with 200mg of iron bisglycinate per day for 3 months, got her vitamin D in the upper 80s (ng/mL),

Secondly, we made lots of adjustments to her diet. She increased her antioxidant intake from pomegranates, broccoli, purple cabbage etc. She's been regularly making lentil vegetable soups in an Instapot. She also introduced more fibre and probiotic foods in the diet.  She also reduced her consumption of sodium-rich processed food, sugar, saturated fat (especially from high fat dairy) and sweetened drinks. 

Thirdly,  we severely restricted her sodium (temporarily) intake because she lived in a country where salt might have been iodised and sodium in general can be inflammatory in excess. I encouraged her to seek out iodine free salt. In some countries this is not an issue but maybe worth checking. 

I think her Zinc was also low but we never measured it. She took a 30-day course of Zinc Citrate

And finally, she also started to exercise more, especially cardio and aquatic exercise. She found a gym that has a sauna and says it has been helping her. 

Retrospectively I think her issue was significantly weakened immune system that has trouble mounting up a proper  response. She was also quite sedentary so her lympatic system which houses tons of her B-Cells and T-Cells wasn't being moved. Her low iron was probably a major contributor and so was her stress. The antioxidant intake was to help mop up free radical storm around her body caused by the inflammation and help support cellular defences.  - as of now, the last I checked with her, her thyroid results were almost normal, with TSH being slightly above 2 but no antibodies detected. Her CRP has calmed down too. She says she hasn't felt that thyroid tingling since August which correlates to the time she started exercising more so maybe that was the last piece of a puzzle. - not sure if its gone or if it'll come back, it might. But those things seemed to have helped. 

Also, one more thing we added that I think helped was this. It is quite expensive and not sure if you can get it in your country but my client swore this made a difference. https://www.designsforhealth.uk/shop/inf120-pl-inflammatone-120-capsule-554#attr=1740,1011,1267,1332,1704,1918,61

I think we went up to 8 capsules a day in the beginning and than downwards from there. Thats significantly over the recommended intake so I'm not making any recommendation, just saying what we did. We obtained her doctor's approval first. 

One thing she herself added was drinking 1 litre of tea with ground ginger (about half the size of a thumb), 1 tablespoon of raw honey she bought from a countryside beekeeper in her country and 1/2 lemon.  Sometimes she added Cayenne pepper to it, it must have tested gross, but all those things have anti-inflammatory properties, so I was happy to encourage it. 

So I'd say on the top of everything you're already doing, you could investigate your blood work, ask for a full iron panel test , maybe add vitamin D into the list and see if anything comes up. Look into that salt iodisation too and ensure you're not using one that contains it. Ramping up your antioxidants is likely to be of benefit. And I'm sure you're already physically active but if not, that's of an importance too. If anything else in that report resonates, give it a shot too. 

With regards to Iodine supplementation, caution is advised as it can exacerbate the inflammation if you supplement during a flareup, but best ask professional guidance on this as it is a very tricky topic. Look up best dietary sources of  it if you're concerned. I believe you are vegan, correct? Still, there are options available such as seaweeds. 

hope that helps. 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Michael569