Need help with problematic family member

[Consept]

Not gonna give specific details but hopefully I can give am idea of the situation. 

So I have a family member who has always been a big issue within the family, I believe they have npd although they would never admit that. Reason I think that is they get into fits of rage when disagreed with, sometimes smashing walls or throwing things and even physically attacking, not to the point of striking but pinning down. As well they never take responsibility for these type of actions. In general can be very manipulative and if they want something they will find a way to get it. In conversation  focus is constantly on them and they often play victim as an emotional tactic ie no one gets their pain etc. 

I have always found it hard to connect with them and so I use the grey rock method, which basically don't give them much emotion or supply, in fact I give nothing basically. The issue is though I'm not often there but I have other family members that are directly affected almost daily by this behavior. I generally just hear about it or see it when I visit. 

Recently something tragic has happened in this person's life, after which this behavior escalated, numerous rage incidents, arguments etc. After this other family members stopped communicating with them. I didn't necessarily stop communicating, but I decided to take a stop back and not put in any effort with them. To which they replied by basically disowning me. 

I do feel bad because it does feel like I'm abandoning someone in their time of need. In a similar situation they haven't provided any support even though we were on speaking terms, so it's not like this person would do anything for me but I do still feel bad. Also what's stopping me is that he can tend to drag you into certain situations that you don't need or want to be in. I'm also much closer with the rest of my family and feel like they deserve the support. I will also say I don't think he's consciously doing this stuff, I think he genuinely believes his reality and that everyone is wrong and he's right.

I guess more just wanted to get it out but am I wrong for taking this step back or should I just deal with the fallout? Obviously any other general thoughts about the situation  are welcome 

 

 

[Schizophonia]

What was the subject of the dispute ? 

[NoSelfSelf]

That's a narcissist in my book there is nothing you can do about it,"grey rock" method is best option,never engage them with emotions or pointing their flaws you just gonna get burned,also they cant stay still and need constant attention,so they will use emotional abuse as the way to get attention.When that happens like you said they are manipulative, but they are themselves so gulible and easily manipulated ,if you distract them with something else and give them something to think about they will stop and go in that direction you guided them on.

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

What was the subject of the dispute ? 

It's basically they're going through something and they feel like no one is supporting them. However there is always some kind of dispute with them, if it wasn't this it would be something else 

[Schizophonia]

18 minutes ago, Consept said:

It's basically they're going through something and they feel like no one is supporting them. However there is always some kind of dispute with them, if it wasn't this it would be something else 

Looks like hysteria.

[Keryo Koffa]

Encoded karmic patterns, self-fulfilling prophecies & unintegrated traumas projected outwards.

It will keep repeating and they'll keep projecting until they're proven right, all unconsciousness.

Others won't help and interaction is just a temporary distraction until the problem is found within.

It's a type of compulsion, no different than religious people preaching & the pattern sustains itself.

Edited September 30 by Keryo Koffa

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Encoded karmic patterns, self-fulfilling prophecies & unintegrated traumas projected outwards.

It will keep repeating and they'll keep projecting until they're proven right, all unconsciousness.

Others won't help and interaction is just a temporary distraction until the problem is found within.

It's a type of compulsion, no different than religious people preaching & the pattern sustains itself.

Spot on.

[UnbornTao]

5 minutes ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Encoded karmic patterns

What does this mean?

[Keryo Koffa]

50 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

What does this mean?

Memes, the DNA of the Soul. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

Karma, action, experiences, encoded as memories, behaviors, impulses, subconscious desires, circulate the mind.
Traumatic events become rejected shadow aspects, suppressed, forgotten, unintegrated tendencies, compulsions, drives.
Become the very foundation of the mind and its projected contextualizations of interpreted events within one's reality.
Until uncovered, the patterns keep repeating, cycles form, repetition occurs, bringing out repressed inadequacies.
Until found within, accepted as one's own, dissolved the resistance towards, they keep steering one's life choices.

And in extreme cases, they materialize personalities and behaviors, that mash with everyone around.
Thick heavy ego structures, inability to bear criticism, closed-mindedness, adversity, us vs them mentality.
A type of paranoia, suspition, gaslight arises, that one is at odds with. Internal aspects are projected onto externalities.

Everything is a karmic pattern since karma is just a word for experience and it becomes encoded in the mind.
But in this context, I am referencing detrimental past experiences, be they experienced or genetic, that manifest adversity.
 

Edited September 30 by Keryo Koffa

[UnbornTao]

@Keryo Koffa okay, thank you.

[Consept]

2 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Memes, the DNA of the Soul. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

Karma, action, experiences, encoded as memories, behaviors, impulses, subconscious desires, circulate the mind.
Traumatic events become rejected shadow aspects, suppressed, forgotten, unintegrated tendencies, compulsions, drives.
Become the very foundation of the mind and its projected contextualizations of interpreted events within one's reality.
Until uncovered, the patterns keep repeating, cycles form, repetition occurs, bringing out repressed inadequacies.
Until found within, accepted as one's own, dissolved the resistance towards, they keep steering one's life choices.

And in extreme cases, they materialize personalities and behaviors, that mash with everyone around.
Thick heavy ego structures, inability to bear criticism, closed-mindedness, adversity, us vs them mentality.
A type of paranoia, suspition, gaslight arises, that one is at odds with. Internal aspects are projected onto externalities.

Everything is a karmic pattern since karma is just a word for experience and it becomes encoded in the mind.
But in this context, I am referencing detrimental past experiences, be they experienced or genetic, that manifest adversity.
 

I can resonate with what youre saying thanks. I think in this instance uncovering these patterns is seemingly impossible because they see no problem with their behavior. Theyre very good at spinning situations so at least to themselves theyre the righteous one, even if everyone disagrees. So I dont know how they will uncover this when they dont believe there are any problems. 

[Keryo Koffa]

4 minutes ago, Consept said:

I can resonate with what youre saying thanks. I think in this instance uncovering these patterns is seemingly impossible because they see no problem with their behavior. Theyre very good at spinning situations so at least to themselves theyre the righteous one, even if everyone disagrees. So I dont know how they will uncover this when they dont believe there are any problems. 

In such cases, they'll have to swallow the pill/their pride sooner or later, and it's easier if they discover the golden rule on their own terms. In such cases, what's really needed is not people appeasing their insatiable megalomanic ego, but them just discovering how unbearable their behavior is on their own, by taking a step back outside their usual context and spending some time reflecting on themselves. And then to take responsibility for their own life autonomously, how well they can do on their own, and how they'd treat themselves when they get some time to think. While other people are around, they will have constant suspicion towards them and will want to prove to themselves, that they're in control, meanwhile ignoring all opportunities for understanding and connection. Everyone moves at their own pace and there's only so much bs one person can bear.

[Consept]

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

what's really needed is not people appeasing their insatiable megalomanic ego,

To be honest this is a big componant, they have always been protected from the consequences of their actions. Someone always bails them out agrees with them even when they're wrong, I do believe this has led to how they are now. 

Even me who has tried to keep a decent distance, if a friend had done similar I probably wouldn't talk to them again. So just by virtue of it being a family member I have loosened my boundaries. I feel that because they know that I have to have looser boundaries they feel more confident to push them. 

8 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

While other people are around, they will have constant suspicion towards them and will want to prove to themselves, that they're in control, meanwhile ignoring all opportunities for understanding and connection. Everyone moves at their own pace and there's only so much bs one person can bear.

This is also part of the problem as they constantly have to be around people. However the amount of people that want to be around them is dwindling due to their behavior 

[meta_male]

23 hours ago, Consept said:

I do feel bad because it does feel like I'm abandoning someone in their time of need.

How would supporting them look like to you? Without further enabling their nasty behaviour?

Edited October 1 by meta_male

[Consept]

3 hours ago, meta_male said:

How would supporting them look like to you? Without further enabling their nasty behaviour?

This is the issue, I would be fine to just be there for them or talk to them or whatever the case maybe but I feel when I do that there are attempts to manipulate me to do things that they want or just to enable the behaviour, using the central issue as a pretence for this. 

So for example it could be them saying I'm depressed so I don't want to work anymore, but then they may say to their parents that they're thinking of unaliving themselves so their parents pay their rent. Then when I 'support' them I have accept this manipulative behaviour to be around them because if I were to question it, I would also be an uncaring monster. 

So what I'm having trouble with is, is not wanting to be around them because of their distorted reality but then also being aware that they have been through something potentially very traumatic. 

[meta_male]

2 hours ago, Consept said:

So what I'm having trouble with is, is not wanting to be around them because of their distorted reality but then also being aware that they have been through something potentially very traumatic. 

Can you really be their support if you don't want to be around them? It's already a heavy burden for someone who does want it, by the sound of it.

[Atb210201]

Try to see the good in him.

If you try to you can bring some good examples in your mind where he really cared about other people and sacrificed himself for them.

That's the point where at least your relation with him on your mind can become more Oneness like and not separated much.

Then dealing with him also can become easier.

Not saying you should unconditionally accept whatever He wants though.

If he wants something that is very unreasonable then you can say no and put some boundaries or even try to make him aware of his false perception if you think you can have any effect on him; but still love him for the goodness you know he has on the deepest levels of his soul on the inside of his heart.

If there is no way literally no way and you just keep being worse by being around him then you have some evaluations to make to see whether you should keep contact with him or not or keeping it to the least minimum as much as possible with his love in your heart still but from more of a distance.

Best wishes my friend I can empathise with you on your situation I think everyone here can to some extent.

Edited October 1 by Atb210201

[Consept]

15 hours ago, meta_male said:

Can you really be their support if you don't want to be around them? It's already a heavy burden for someone who does want it, by the sound of it.

Good question, I guess not because they will probably get the feeling I don't want to be around them. 

14 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

Try to see the good in him.

If you try to you can bring some good examples in your mind where he really cared about other people and sacrificed himself for them.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I have tried seeing the good in him. I'm not sure if I'm just heavily biased because of past behaviour and just my general perception of them, but I do feel almost everything they do in relation to other people is some form of manipulation to get what they want, which I believe to be narcissistic supply, as well as survival needs from others. A stupid example might be offering as a birthday present an activity that the recipient has no interest in but that they really want to do. So on the face of it, it seems nice but there's no real concern for whether the person actually wants to do that thing. There are much worse examples btw, but just wanted a fairly light one. 

14 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

If he wants something that is very unreasonable then you can say no and put some boundaries or even try to make him aware of his false perception if you think you can have any effect on him; but still love him for the goodness you know he has on the deepest levels of his soul on the inside of his heart.

I do have these boundaries up, which is why they have developed issues with me. However what's hard for me to watch is the stress they put other members of the family under who don't have good boundaries. I have tried pointing out things but it usually ends in them reacting badly and justifying everything put forward. 

 

14 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

If there is no way literally no way and you just keep being worse by being around him then you have some evaluations to make to see whether you should keep contact with him or not or keeping it to the least minimum as much as possible with his love in your heart still but from more of a distance.

I think this will be the route ultimately taken, what I find is I have to limit myself so much around them and cannot live in truth because truth is corrosive to them, if something questions their reality, they react very negatively. So for me I don't see how I could be around that. Before I guess I wanted to keep peace and just tell people to keep boundaries etc but now I feel I want to opt out 

 

14 hours ago, Atb210201 said:

Best wishes my friend I can empathise with you on your situation I think everyone here can to some extent.

Thank you my bro 🙏🏽 

[Raze]

Tell them to get ifs therapy and try break through difficult emotions by Shinzen young and the detox dudes 

[Letho]

 

@Consept Simple question, where is there disrespect? That's where there's proportional distance. You have to be the one though who decides how much distance that is emotionally (how much are they in your heart), psychologically (how much time do they take up) and  physically though.

If they're sometimes 'dragging you into...' that means there are issues when it comes to enforcing your boundaries because in the past you haven't been decisive on the distance and because of that, its eroded your boundaries where now you're no longer sure of where to make clear cut decisions emotionally, psychologically and physically with respect to how they take up your space.

The best way to approach this is to CONSCIOUSLY which means denying impulses to the contrary begin to INSTALL BOUNDARIES relative to genuine misbehaviour you're uncomfortable with, something you could even test by simply starting a conversation with them at a genuine authentic level rather than trying to bait them into the boundary as that isn't going to do anything healthy for the way you appraise said guilt you experience, To the level they show disrespect then you've got to be the one that goes inward to decide on those three levels how that practically corresponds to how you will in return as a man respond to the situation while holding your own authority. 

I deal with things head on, so I don't really like the grey rock thing I like to be straight up with people and literally just tell them "Hey I think you're an x" can we have a discussion about it and if they can't be mature about it then its just the installation of boundaries accordingly in a nuanced stage by stage non-dramatic way in the ideal scenario, because think about it, unless you're doing with kids that you also have authority over towards installing the right maturity in them why are you wasting time trying to speak to them about their own immaturity whatever category of immaturity that is?

The more nuance you can approach the situation with, the more in integrity with your self you're going to feel, the situation and the other person / people involved wherever that may be the case.

Otherwise you're doing great.

 

Edited October 3 by Letho