Your thoughs on this paragraph?

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

this is childish wisful thinking. really thats the only description. This can only fit into a kid's mind . Because he didn't see suffering and the ugly face of life yet . Once you become an adult and gain some life experience (which can only happen when life spits in your face with its endless proplems) then you can only laugh on this paragraph. 

There is no quitting suffering as long as you are stuck in a body . The end .

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

I think it's quite obvious that if you were totally open to you infinite nature whole time the form would mean very little for you, and the suffering comes from the form. Any problem of life, like misery, illness, loneliness, would mean very little for you, almost nothing, just a background vibration. The question is until what extent this openenss is possible. Sure in some extent, maybe almost total, but I don't think it's possible 100% being a human, but maybe it is

[Schizophonia]

Who is it ? Ken Wilber ? 🤔

[What Am I]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Who is it ? Ken Wilber ? 🤔

Culadasa. He's perhaps a bit less well known, but he's solid in terms of a long-standing practice from proven lineages.

[Schizophonia]

27 minutes ago, What Am I said:

Culadasa. He's perhaps a bit less well known, but he's solid in terms of a long-standing practice from proven lineages.

Ok ty, i didn't know him. 

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think it's quite obvious that if you were totally open to you infinite nature whole time the form would mean very little for you, and the suffering comes from the form. Any problem of life, like misery, illness, loneliness, would mean very little for you, almost nothing, just a background vibration. 

Yeah.."the whole time " is the keyword 

here's the thing in case you didn't notice.. The universe is a tricky fucking devil.. Sometimes life is amazing.. Other times you wanna blow up the whole universe.. Yin and yang.. Leela.. Maya.. Tricky stuff.. I just want one true stable THING. 

Infinity is hidden by the experience its appearing as . This experience is finite .if it was infinite you couldn't string together a single coherent sentence .to write this reply your mind must be fixated and limited .

Edited September 29 by Someone here

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Infinity is hidden by the experience its appearing as

Let's suppose that there are people, like the guy who wrote that paragraph, who in addition to realizing the infinite, by vocation and complete dedication have tipped the balance towards the opening to the unlimited in such a way that the limited form has been reduced to a shell, to a mere vehicle from which the infinite peers into this human dimension, Then for them life and death are exactly the same.

I'm not saying this is 100% true, but many have stated it. What is certain is that it is possible to a large extent, maybe not erase all suffering but at least don't create it continuously 

Edited September 29 by Breakingthewall

[What Am I]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

this is childish wisful thinking. really thats the only description. This can only fit into a kid's mind . Because he didn't see suffering and the ugly face of life yet . Once you become an adult and gain some life experience (which can only happen when life spits in your face with its endless proplems) then you can only laugh on this paragraph. 

There is no quitting suffering as long as you are stuck in a body . The end .

 

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Let's suppose that there are people, like the guy who wrote that paragraph, who in addition to realizing the infinite, by vocation and complete dedication have tipped the balance towards the opening to the unlimited in such a way that the limited form has been reduced to a shell, to a mere vehicle from which the infinite peers into this human dimension, Then for them life and death are exactly the same.

I'm not saying this is 100% true, but many have stated it. What is certain is that it is possible to a large extent, maybe not erase all suffering but at least don't create it continuously

I maintain pretty strongly that the answer lies in this response I made to the OP earlier in the thread. Until it's understood, people will look at the notion of ending suffering and imagine some kind of goofy scenario where a person takes xanax and surrounds themselves with pillows so they can never feel mental or physical discomfort again lol.

The true release of suffering would be something along the lines of an annihilation of the imagined sense of self, which only continues to survive due to its continuous refreshment from sloppy use of thought. The further you get in spiritual transformation, the less there's a sense of individuality remaining to be personally bothered by the suffering.

On 9/27/2024 at 1:29 PM, What Am I said:

The suffering that the wisdom traditions claim to offer liberation from is probably not what you're thinking. Suffering still occurs, but the practice provides a true freedom from the one who suffers. Meaning suffering becomes an empty process which exists in its own suchness, without a standalone individual who could be said to be experiencing the suffering.

[Breakingthewall]

25 minutes ago, What Am I said:

The true release of suffering would be something along the lines of an annihilation of the imagined sense of self

I think that if you are totally open to infinity, your human life become in background in order of importance, and you understand that everything that happens, for example being tortured, is part of your path in this form, you understand the mechanic of the reality, then you accept everything, but the problem is that you could see that very clear in some moments but when you are 3 months in a bed with metastasis, maybe you get closed and you become pure suffering. It's not something that you could decide at will.

The sense of self is not imagined, it's real, if you get burned pain appears and this is inevitable. Imagine that you have to support maximum pain for a month 24/7, then it disappears, then another time anyone threat you with the same process. You could be very open to enlightenment and without any sense of human self but sure you would prefer that this doesn't happen, then there is suffering in some extent always. 

Edited September 29 by Breakingthewall

[What Am I]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that if you are totally open to infinity, your human life become in background in order of importance, and you understand that everything that happens, for example being tortured, is part of your path in this form, you understand the mechanic of the reality, then you accept everything, but the problem is that you could see that very clear in some moments but when you are 3 months in a bed with metastasis, maybe you get closed and you become pure suffering. It's not something that you could decide at will.

The sense of self is not imagined, it's real, if you get burned pain appears and this is inevitable. Imagine that you have to support maximum pain for a month 24/7, then it disappears, then another time anyone threat you with the same process. You could be very open to enlightenment and without any sense of human self but sure you would prefer that this doesn't happen, then there is suffering in some extent always. 

Yeah, I think this is a reasonable description. Suffering doesn't stop, and the wish for suffering not to occur doesn't stop. Only the individual psychological sufferer is the thing that disappears. It's a very transcendent concept that needs to be experienced to be understood. And I'm only speaking from a tiny bit of direct experience, thanks mostly to 5-MeO-DMT.

I'm sure you in particular have an idea of what I mean. When you go into the 5meo breakthrough, wouldn't you say the reality you experience is without an experiencer? Or how about when you go to sleep for the night and slip into the void state beyond dreams? Doesn't it feel like there's no individual having the experience? If you extrapolate that divine superconscious identity into your subconscious and waking states, I believe that's closer to what's meant by ceasing the experience of suffering.

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, What Am I said:

I'm sure you in particular have an idea of what I mean. When you go into the 5meo breakthrough, wouldn't you say the reality you experience is without an experiencer?

You could say that always, reality includes the appearance of an experience and an experiencer, right now you could realize it quite easily, but even there is not an experiencer, imagine that you are Buddha and they take you for a month to a perfect tropical beach, with a perfect temperature, crystal clear waters, colorful fish, and every day a perfect woman comes to visit you if you want to spend some time with her, then some friends visit you for dinner and You sleep in a hammock rocked by a perfect breeze.

When the month ends they put you in a 1x1x1m box, with a metal lid that heats up to 50c in the sun, thousands of mosquitoes bite you continuously and cockroaches and ants run all over your body. You must constantly prevent rats from nibbling your feet, after a few days the whole floor is full of your shit, and your body is full of purulent pustules. After a month they take you out of there.

After a year they ask you: where would you prefer to spend a month, in the box or on the beach? If your answer is truly: I don't care. then you have transcended suffering. Do you think anyone has really done it?

[What Am I]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

You could say that always, reality includes the appearance of an experience and an experiencer, right now you could realize it quite easily, but even there is not an experiencer, imagine that you are Buddha and they take you for a month to a perfect tropical beach, with a perfect temperature, crystal clear waters, colorful fish, and every day a perfect woman comes to visit you if you want to spend some time with her, then some friends visit you for dinner and You sleep in a hammock rocked by a perfect breeze.

When the month ends they put you in a 1x1x1m box, with a metal lid that heats up to 50c in the sun, thousands of mosquitoes bite you continuously and cockroaches and ants run all over your body. You must constantly prevent rats from nibbling your feet, after a few days the whole floor is full of your shit, and your body is full of purulent pustules. After a month they take you out of there.

After a year they ask you: where would you prefer to spend a month, in the box or on the beach? If your answer is truly: I don't care. then you have transcended suffering. Do you think anyone has really done it?

I hear what you're saying, but in my opinion, the premise of the question is still a misunderstanding of what a transcendence of suffering facilitated by enlightenment actually is. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with wanting to avoid uncomfortable situations. Both a common person as well as an enlightened master would not want to be trapped in a hot little box where rats nibble at their feet lol.

It's a shift in felt identity from that of a tiny individuality to a continuous mystical universality. It's a removal of the sufferer, not the suffering. I think I lack the skills to explain it any more clearly.

It's probably the word "suffering" that throws everyone off so badly. Most people can't get past their conception of its meaning. Buddhism and other traditions should have used a different word to describe that from which liberation occurs.

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, What Am I said:

It's a removal of the sufferer, not the suffering. I think I lack the skills to explain it any more clearly.

I understand, but I think that the sufferer is created by the suffering. It's precisely the mission of suffering, create a self that moves away from suffering. Suffering isn't something objetive, it's something created by life to survive and evolve, same than desire. What it's possible is, once that self is created, expand it to infinity and then that suffering is relative, it expands to infinity. Well, more or lees, because the mission of suffering is make you want to scape of it, but anyway you could control it in a big extent. 

The real point is not create suffering when you are in the perfect beach, with that is enough! Then, if they put us in the fucking box, what to do? Try to avoid and when it happens try to stand as good as it's possible. But most of humans crate anxiety in any circumstance, because the ego, the ego never is perfect, no beach, no girls, nothing, always was something in the past, fear to the future, anything wrong. Erase that suffering is the goal, not be a fakir

Edited September 30 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I understand, but I think that the sufferer is created by the suffering. It's precisely the mission of suffering, create a self that moves away from suffering. Suffering isn't something objetive, it's something created by life to survive and evolve, same than desire. What it's possible is, once that self is created, expand it to infinity and then that suffering is relative, it expands to infinity. Well, more or lees, because the mission of suffering is make you want to scape of it, but anyway you could control it in a big extent. 

The real point is not create suffering when you are in the perfect beach, with that is enough! Then, if they put us in the fucking box, what to do? Try to avoid and when it happens try to stand as good as it's possible. But most of humans crate anxiety in any circumstance, because the ego, the ego never is perfect, no beach, no girls, nothing, always was something in the past, fear to the future, anything wrong. Erase that suffering is the goal, not be a fakir

The suffering is created by the sufferer!

To suffer doesn't mean to reluctantly let happen; It means to chose to allow the flow of existence unimpeded

Suffering is what hastens awakening; it is one being pricked again and again until one starts to question and enquire

The sufferer needs to throw his hands in the air and say

I am doing this same idiotic craziness lifetime after lifetime; I am desperate and need to break free of this once and for all

This is the call to god and is met with the call from god

Now at last you can start to piece together who this sufferer is

When you have done that, suffering may or may not keep arising but there will be no more sufferer left to wallow in it

I am no longer craving good and no longer chased by bad; I am all things at all times to all peoples for all seasons

Sure you might go ahead and crucify me if you desire and you will see how such barbarity is to your downfall not mine

Awakening is what is needed: Rise up as the real you and leave the robotic you to keep tilting at the bogus windmills

 

Edited September 30 by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

am no longer craving good and no longer chased by bad; I am all things at all times to all peoples for all seasons

I prefer being in the tropical beach than in the box full of insects, it's inevitable. You could be very awake, until you are locked in the box, then you will become just a feeling: I want to go out. It's the human nature, or for you it's the same pain or pleasure?

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I prefer being in the tropical beach than in the box full of insects, it's inevitable. You could be very awake, until you are locked in the box, then you will become just a feeling: I want to go out. It's the human nature, or for you it's the same pain or pleasure?

Awakening is to wake up and have no plans, then to soar in the air like a bird on the wing, all because the wind dictates it

You aren't your own man anymore with expectations, needs, requirements, preferences

You do what is called for and you say what is useful and you go to where needed

You are ever untouchable mighty untroubled and smiling

You don't court trouble but should apparent ill befall you, it's all in the day's work

You are simply passing through and all this has nothing to do with what you are and how you feel

Nothing here matters in the least except in so far as you can do a good turn or two for a brother that he be the same way

 

Edited September 30 by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Awakening is to wake up and have no plans, then to soar in the air like a bird on the wing, all because the wind dictates it

I have a lot of plans, I'm an human, not a bird. I have to control everything, if not I'm going to sink in the shit. The game of evolution dont forgive.

Anyway, anyone is free to go to the congo and live there as a homeless, but I'd say that nobody renounce to the security, comfort, protection, possibilities . Why to do that? We have to fight hard for life, like anything that lives

Edited September 30 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

13 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I have a lot of plans, I'm an human, not a bird. I have to control everything, if not I'm going to sink in the shit. The game of evolution dont forgive.

Anyway, anyone is free to go to the congo and live there as a homeless, but I'd say that nobody renounce to the security, comfort, protection, possibilities . Why to do that? We have to fight hard for life, like anything that lives

Yes indeed, spoken like a truly evolved smart certified ego. There isn't control. You are at the mercy of uncountable interactions of your ambient separate self spinning its web. While you believe you are avoiding sinking in the shit, by your stated agenda, you are in truth resisting all that lies in your path and inviting worse sink holes ahead. Give up the reins of power; give existence the wheel of your vehicle. Casts your cares on it since it is the only reliable thing and has your back. I simply love waking up and having an empty calendar with another day stretched out gleaming before me. Isn't it magnificent?

Edited October 1 by gettoefl

[Someone here]

36 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

Yes indeed, spoken like a truly evolved smart certified ego. There isn't control. You are at the mercy of uncountable interactions of your ambient separate self spinning its web. While you believe you are avoiding sinking in the shit, by your stated agenda, you are in truth resisting all that lies in your path and inviting worse sink holes ahead. Give up the reins of power; give existence the wheel of your vehicle. Casts your cares on it since it is the only reliable thing and has your back. I simply love waking up and having an empty calendar with another day stretched out gleaming before me. Isn't it magnificent?

Dude that was dope as hell .

BTW Glad you started using proper punctuation instead of these pseudo-poetic idle nuggets of comments that you used to blabber in the past 🤣❤

[Keryo Koffa]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Yes indeed, spoken like a truly evolved smart certified ego. There isn't control. You are at the mercy of uncountable interactions of your ambient separate self spinning its web. While you believe you are avoiding sinking in the shit, by your stated agenda, you are in truth resisting all that lies in your path and inviting worse sink holes ahead. Give up the reins of power; give existence the wheel of your vehicle. Casts your cares on it since it is the only reliable thing and has your back. I simply love waking up and having an empty calendar with another day stretched out gleaming before me. Isn't it magnificent?

Bookmark worthy

[Buck Edwards]

On 27/09/2024 at 8:30 PM, What Am I said:

To give my two cents on this one, I would say the answer is yes. But only so far as the temporary mystical experience performs energetic purification and helps pave the way towards the full realization.

In my experience, moving towards enlightenment seems to involve a progressive process rather than an all-at-once revelation, though I wouldn't be surprised to find out there's a profound experience that marks the completion of the process. My point is that many changes will happen to you along the way, and I believe that would include the attainment of genuine wisdom, which I would define as a proper alignment with ultimate reality rather than something more mundane like making smart choices.

This is excellent. I view enlightenment in a similar way.