Your thoughs on this paragraph?

[Breakingthewall]

For me the point is that "enlightenment" is let's say gradual. In a given moment you break the limits for a moment, then you work in yourself in that direction and you achieve more moments of let's say no limits, of flow out of the barriers of the mind until this that was extremely challenging starts to be normal, then at any given moment you perceive yourself as the totality of existence, you are what exists, and anything else is what appears in what exists, the form it takes now.

Any thought, feeling, suffering, whatever, is an appearance in what exists, which is what you are. You are infinite, without limit, empty and total at the same time, absolutely free. This does not mean that you have freed yourself from attachment to form, but rather that attachment to form coexists with the reality that you are the total existence. At some moments the form becomes denser and you do not perceive yourself as unlimited existence, at others it is more transparent. You consciously work on yourself to iron out what hinders perceiving yourself as the ultimate reality, since it becomes obvious that that is what you are, but that does not mean you stop being the form to a large extent.

Towards the side of the form is suffering, since the form is impermanent and being attached to it is a sure cause of suffering. Towards the unlimited side is freedom and openness, perfect happiness, but you can never reach it 100% because the form exists and cannot be denied. You have to maintain a balance and drift towards the most practical, trying to maintain a window to the unlimited at all times, without it life is pain.

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

For me the point is that "enlightenment" is let's say gradual. In a given moment you break the limits for a moment, then you work in yourself in that direction and you achieve more moments of let's say no limits, of flow out of the barriers of the mind until this that was extremely challenging starts to be normal, then at any given moment you perceive yourself as the totality of existence, you are what exists, and anything else is what appears in what exists, the form it takes now.

Any thought, feeling, suffering, whatever, is an appearance in what exists, which is what you are. You are infinite, without limit, empty and total at the same time, absolutely free. This does not mean that you have freed yourself from attachment to form, but rather that attachment to form coexists with the reality that you are the total existence. At some moments the form becomes denser and you do not perceive yourself as unlimited existence, at others it is more transparent. You consciously work on yourself to iron out what hinders perceiving yourself as the ultimate reality, since it becomes obvious that that is what you are, but that does not mean you stop being the form to a large extent.

Towards the side of the form is suffering, since the form is impermanent and being attached to it is a sure cause of suffering. Towards the unlimited side is freedom and openness, perfect happiness, but you can never reach it 100% because the form exists and cannot be denied. You have to maintain a balance and drift towards the most practical, trying to maintain a window to the unlimited at all times, without it life is pain.

Yes, this is close. For me, the form is a trap. You tricked yourself by dissociating other parts of yourself, believing in separation and making duality. When you attach yourself to form, you are identifying with limits that aren't there. The experience of form, with all its thoughts, feelings, and suffering, comes from a belief in division - from seeing yourself as distinct from the totality of existence. But that’s not the real you! The truth of who you are is beyond the form, and beyond any appearance of suffering.

The key for me is that real freedom comes from recognizing that all form is purely an illusion. Instead of finding balance between form and the infinite, the task at hand is to see through the illusion of form entirely. Suffering exists simply because of the attachment to the illusion, but when you understand that it’s not real, your perception will shift. You realize that what you actually are is untouched by suffering or limitation, and that you are still whole and unified with everything, even if it looks otherwise.

This isn't about denying form or pushing it away but about no longer taking it as one's identity. The more you stay in the deeper reality of who you are, the less grip the illusion of form will have on you. What once felt dense and limiting starts to dissolve, and your experience of freedom and peace becomes more consistent. So it’s not a gradual process of balancing both realities but a gradual awakening to the fact that only one reality is true - the absolute beyond form.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

For me, the form is a trap. You tricked yourself by dissociating other parts of yourself, believing in separation and making duality

I don't think that you could do such thing because you are not anyone, are existence, and the point is that if there are forms, they are infinite, couldn't be like only 100 billions of forms, because in infinity nothing could be finite, then if there are forms means that forms are an arisement that happens in the reality and happen always, because now is always, then forms happen, it's the only explanation because it's a fact. Infinite forms in infinite dimensions. Impossible to make a mental representation. 

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't think that you could do such thing because you are not anyone, are existence, and the point is that if there are forms, they are infinite, couldn't be like only 100 billions of forms, because in infinity nothing could be finite, then if there are forms means that forms are an arisement that happens in the reality and happen always, because now is always, then forms happen, it's the only explanation because it's a fact. Infinite forms in infinite dimensions. Impossible to make a mental representation. 

So look in the mirror and then tell me who you think you really are

[Princess Arabia]

Remember folks, "If" is not Reality. 

[Princess Arabia]

21 hours ago, gettoefl said:

Yes, this is close. For me, the form is a trap. You tricked yourself by dissociating other parts of yourself, believing in separation and making duality. When you attach yourself to form, you are identifying with limits that aren't there. The experience of form, with all its thoughts, feelings, and suffering, comes from a belief in division - from seeing yourself as distinct from the totality of existence. But that’s not the real you! The truth of who you are is beyond the form, and beyond any appearance of suffering.

The key for me is that real freedom comes from recognizing that all form is purely an illusion. Instead of finding balance between form and the infinite, the task at hand is to see through the illusion of form entirely. Suffering exists simply because of the attachment to the illusion, but when you understand that it’s not real, your perception will shift. You realize that what you actually are is untouched by suffering or limitation, and that you are still whole and unified with everything, even if it looks otherwise.

This isn't about denying form or pushing it away but about no longer taking it as one's identity. The more you stay in the deeper reality of who you are, the less grip the illusion of form will have on you. What once felt dense and limiting starts to dissolve, and your experience of freedom and peace becomes more consistent. So it’s not a gradual process of balancing both realities but a gradual awakening to the fact that only one reality is true - the absolute beyond form.

This, my friend, is probably the most, the best, the most true, the most enlightened, most awakened, most important, most profound, only statements needed, only thing need be known.....can't think of anything else..... that ever needs to be said and realized by everyone, everywhere, at all times in this spiritual quest for freedom and enlightenment and liberation. THAT'S IT!!!

Everything else is just stories, dreams, illusions, projections, assumptions fantasies, thoughts, ideas and concepts. This what you've said here is the true essence of Spiritual "teachings" and the only thing need to be recognized as such. From this place, we can truly begin to live and appreciate this 3rd density for what it truly is and without identification of the Ego Mind Identity. It's really the only work that needs to be aimed for, everything else is purely just a means to an end to get you to this point of recognition.

To anybody that's reading this, take those words from @gettoefland bookmark them and go back it to from time to time to help you remember them and to keep reminding yourself of your true nature and to not get attached to the world and your life circumstances but to see them as passing phenomenons and experiences that are not true Reflections of who you really are. It will truly benefit you in how you see yourself and the world and reduce the sufferings in the mind that is only seeking it's source which is you. It continues to look outward for something that can never be found outward; and this is why it suffers. The mind is what suffers, your true nature does not. There is no mind independent of you and it will always suffer in it's quest for peace and happiness. It is not designed to be happy, it is designed to seek; and it is seeking for something that doesn't exist. It itself is illusory and what is illusory cannot find what is not. The quest is endless and this is why nothing is ever enough. 

Edited September 28 by Princess Arabia

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

The mind is what suffers, your true nature does not. There is no mind independent of you and it will always suffer in it's quest for peace and happiness. It is not designed to be happy, it is designed to seek; and it is seeking for something that doesn't exist. It itself is illusory and what is illusory cannot find what is not. The quest is endless and this is why nothing is ever enough.

The human mind can open itself to the infinity because it is the infinity, like everything else. It's impossible to avoid suffering is some extent, because the form exist. Even it's impermanent it has the impulse of maintain itself as a form. Anyway, who cares about the suffering? The point is opening out eyes to infinity, it's the the real thing. All of us have to achieve it, because anything else is misery. 

On 27/9/2024 at 8:45 PM, gettoefl said:

The key for me is that real freedom comes from recognizing that all form is purely an illusion.

The form is the infinity, your mind is infinite, nothing is finite. The only illusion is that something is finite or imperfect. The form is nothing because there are infinite forms, but it's everything because it contains the total infinity. Any point of the reality contains the whole reality, Infinite dimensions arising within infinite dimensions, everything that is possible is, and the possibilities are endless. only the absolutely perfect can be.

Imagine infinite big bangs, in them any micro lack of coordination causes non-existence, infinite emergences will never be, infinite others do exist, all coordinated with each other to infinite power. the form is absolute perfection. a meth addict fucking his dog is absolute perfection and contains the totality, a depressing thought is the perfection and is the totality of the reality. everything is perfect lines, absolute coordination. 

Edited September 28 by Breakingthewall

[Javfly33]

On 27/9/2024 at 8:45 PM, gettoefl said:

Yes, this is close. For me, the form is a trap. You tricked yourself by dissociating other parts of yourself, believing in separation and making duality. When you attach yourself to form, you are identifying with limits that aren't there. The experience of form, with all its thoughts, feelings, and suffering, comes from a belief in division - from seeing yourself as distinct from the totality of existence. But that’s not the real you! The truth of who you are is beyond the form, and beyond any appearance of suffering.

Nice, is important to realize you are not in the form, or are the form, or are inside the form, or that the form contains you. 

The point of Enlightment is for perception and a body to keep existing, but 'You' is completely gone because 'You' can not die or be alive, since 'You' is something beyond birth and death.

At that point the body and mind works for 'You', Life becomes the celebration it was supposed to be 🎉

Edited September 28 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

You' is completely gone because 'You' can not die or be alive, since 'You' is something beyond birth and death

Exactly, you are the reality. total infinity. It is something quite counterintuitive because apparently you are limited by all the other forms and whoever sees himself is the form, the total reality does not reflect on itself, the reflection is in the form, but the form can see that it really is a justa shell and what really exists is the existence

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

or that the form contains you. 

The reality contains the form but in some way the form contains the reality. The form is, that's inevitable, we are the reality made form, there have to be infinite forms then is a sense form is absolute, if there is form, always is form, without end, it's impossible that are forms and then stop being, another form will arise, to infinity 

[Javfly33]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 the reflection is in the form, but the form can see that it really is a justa shell and what really exists is the existence

so the existence is not really the form, 

Maybe form does not really exist, maybe form is a thought or belief, a proyection of the mind? @Breakingthewall

[Ulax]

Wish I could comment from direct experience. However, unfortunately, I'm an unawakecel .

Edited September 28 by Ulax
Grammar

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

so the existence is not really the form, 

Maybe form does not really exist, maybe form is a thought or belief, a proyection of the mind? @Breakingthewall

I think that we can see that reality manifests itself in different dimensions. Reality can only be unlimited and eternal, therefore if there are different relative dimensions these will necessarily be infinite. Thus, the fact of manifestation in dimensions or forms is an absolute reality. It is obvious if you observe yourself, you are flowing in a very concrete way. If this is like this now, it is always like this, now is always, only the appearance changes, infinite cycles. The end of manifestations is not a possibility, nothing begins and ends in infinity, only cycles return to their origin and originate again, in infinite circles.

[Breakingthewall]

39 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

so the existence is not really the form, 

Maybe form does not really exist, maybe form is a thought or belief, a proyection of the mind? @Breakingthewall

Form doesn't exist in the sense that if it finish, it never existed, it's one divided by infinity, that is zero, then it's just an appearance, but what could happen when it's not form? Only one thing could happen, that a form arises. A form could be the entire big bang or an atom, the problem is understanding: what am I? Am I the form or the substance? How could I be both? Then what I'm going to be when this form dissapear? Seems like a paradox, you will stop existing as this form but continue existing as existence, then you will be another form, but you as existence are already infinite forms 😅. Then, what are you? Difficult or maybe impossible to really understand 

[Javfly33]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then, what are you? Difficult or maybe impossible to really understand 

what am i, im not the form. But Im not sure why form happen in the first place.

Is form neccesary? It shouldn´t be, if i am really not the form, form should not be neccesary to exist.

why forms exist, that would be a good question to investigate.

And if there a possibility where forms do not exist? 

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

what am i, im not the form. But Im not sure why form happen in the first place.

Is form neccesary? It shouldn´t be, if i am really not the form, form should not be neccesary to exist.

why forms exist, that would be a good question to investigate.

And if there a possibility where forms do not exist? 

Form exists so you can taste chocolate.

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

why forms exist, that would be a good question to investigate.

And if there a possibility where forms do not exist? 

I think forms arise because the reality is infinite. Without infinite forms reality would be limited and can't be. The point is that all those forms are really appearances because are just apparent movement, things that moves in relationship to other things that moves in relationship of other things etc, then really it's like there are not forms, because from an infinite perspective there is not movement. it's as you said just a perspective, like a mental image, but we are in that perspective and it's quite solid. Then, can be dissapear? Maybe yes in the sense that you could change your perspective and make the form irrelevant. It still exist, but it's totally transparent, the substance is the main thing, the form is just a form . But still , has to be, I think 

And again, the question would be: what happens with me when this form ends? Well, who makes that question really is the form, then it disappears, or restart in a different way, but then it isn't this form anymore. The reality can't do this question, because it's already everything. It's difficult to think In this, because who thinks is the form, that's to say that all this thoughts that we are making aren't real, means nothing, but anyway we have to make them to make the form transparent

Edited September 28 by Breakingthewall

[Someone here]

On 26/09/2024 at 10:37 PM, koops said:

this is childish wisful thinking. really thats the only description. This can only fit into a kid's mind . Because he didn't see suffering and the ugly face of life yet . Once you become an adult and gain some life experience (which can only happen when life spits in your face with its endless proplems) then you can only laugh on this paragraph. 

There is no quitting suffering as long as you are stuck in a body . The end .

[Javfly33]

7 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

And again, the question would be: what happens with me when this form ends? Well, who makes that question really is the form, then it disappears, or restart in a different way, but then it isn't this form anymore. The reality can't do this question, because it's already everything. It's difficult to think In this, because who thinks is the form, that's to say that all this thoughts that we are making aren't real, means nothing, but anyway we have to make them to make the form transparent

Is very difficult to think it but i think you have a great point, is important to realize what is trying to think it is the limited form, yeah

My suspiction is that Reality moves forward, the new born babies are the result of the past memory of the reality, so maybe if I die murdering someone with a knife, the implication of that murdering somehow energitcally keeps surviving and maintaining itself, and since reality keeps reproducing itself, the newborn babies are a result of the past memory.

So maybe all Reality Infinite does not end until all form dissappears, as long there is form there is reproduction of the reality

[UnbornTao]

I wouldn't think of transcending suffering and becoming awakened to one's nature as necessarily the same pursuit. They may complement and empower each other, though. Other than that, if it is coming from some sort of real insight or breakthrough, then I'd say it is solid.

Edited September 29 by UnbornTao