1 liter of soy milk per day completely supress testosterone.

[Michael569]

34 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

f soy delete DHT by 5ar as propecia it will also delete 5a-DHP and Allopregnenolone.

delete? Soy doesn't delete anything. You can't just "delete" an enzyme that's coded by your DNA. If what you mean is temporarily reduce function of 5-Alpha Reductase then that's probably a good thing isn't it? 

But I don't care about mechanisms.

Show me the outcome data.

Show me the evidence (in humans) that soy products in moderation cause any endocrine problems? For each of those I have a study with 1000s of people showing protective effects. Ray Pete thinking all over again 

Edited September 27, 2024 by Michael569

[Schizophonia]

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

What has hormone replacement therapy to do with decreasing cell division?

Because it decreases growth factors (igf1, mTOR...)

If the cells divide less quickly, you will supposedly last longer over time because the more cells divide, the more telomeres shorten and lose their ability to divide properly and therefore ultimately to divide at all, and automatically you more and more look "older".
I don't know exactly the consequences of this on the quality of life, probably not so good especially since I have seen a lot of testimonies that growth hormone inducers like the ghrelin agonist ibutamoren, or direct injections of growth hormones allow you to feel good, improve the quality of your skin, improve sleep etc.

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Enlighten me if you want

 

Ofc my great full of prolactin grasshopper.

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

yea i agree it seems he doesn’t eat that much, and it’s all plant based I thought he would be omnivore. Doesn’t look too appetizing either 

and he takes a bunch of supplements seemingly to compensate for the diet idk. He said he took over a hundred a day

Yes it's a nutcase, lol.

He also had multiples cosmetic surgery and others intrusive practices, btw.

43 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

vanilla ice cream is bomb👍🏻

It's not worth the rum raisin ice cream but you and the others were not going to understand, one day will come.
Otherwise the chestnut creams too, or the sweetened condensed milk, the "boules coco", the dark chocolates with nazelnuts nestle, the walnut cake of perigord (my region).

French obese snaks.

Edited September 27, 2024 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

delete? Soy doesn't delete anything. You can't just "delete" an enzyme that's coded by your DNA. If what you mean is temporarily reduce function of 5-Alpha Reductase then that's probably a good thing isn't it? 

But I don't care about mechanisms.

Yes i meant inhibit.

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Show me the outcome data. Show me that soy products in moderation cause any endocrine problems?

I've didn't say soy product "in moderation" was an issue.

I've just supposed soy was excessively oestrogenic.

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

1000s of people showing protective effects.

Being very full of estrogen is very good for bone mass, it does not mean that it is good everywhere.
Homeostasis.

17 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Ray Pete thinking all over again 

Eheh.

Idk if ray peat has talked about soy and i don't mind, i just eat "instinctively" now and it's not very peaty.

My diet is more closer of WAPF recommendations now, without wanting it.

Edited September 27, 2024 by Schizophonia

[Michael569]

Just now, Schizophonia said:

Yes i meant inhibit.

fair point, words for words.

Point stands. Why is temporary inhibition of 5AR (although I think its more like temporary reduction, inhibition indicates 100% loss of function) bad? 

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

I've didn't say soy product "in moderation" was an issue.

I've just supposed soy was excessively oestrogenic.

You tagged me i this for a reason , right? even tho you knew I'd come after you with the hammer beating you for all your mechanistic speculative arguments 

Yes I agree, excessive soy (such as 1.2 litres of highly concentrated stuff) is a problem. Granted !

Soy in moderation is not a problem - can I get a concession on that? 

3 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Being very full of estrogen is very good for bone mass, it does not mean that it is good everywhere.
Homeostasis.

Eating a bunch of soy is NOT the same as being full of oestrogen, my god! Phytoestrogens aren't the same thing as biological oestrogens. That's an alpha and omega difference. Read into it. You're a scientist, you enjoy this shit so read a few clinical overviews of the phytoestrogen evidence. Let the research tell you the story rather than plugging up gaps in your knowledge with pseudoscience. 

Take it seriously and you'll see that all roads point the same direction. 

Being full of oestrogen which, I presume, means, your body is producing very high amounts, would either be some kind of genetic disease or a pituitary tumour or maybe even some sort of ovarian dysfunction or testicular tumour. The body doesn't just start pumping out hormones because you ate a tofu. 

7 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Idk if ray peat has talked about soy and i don't mind

Oh I am sure he has, that and PUFA has to be his favourite topics, that's where they can get lost in the pseudoscientific jungle. 

8 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

My diet is more closer of "WAPF" recommendations now, without wanting it.

well, at least you're not a carnivore so that's good

[Schizophonia]

8 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

 

Point stands. Why is temporary inhibition of 5AR (although I think its more like temporary reduction, inhibition indicates 100% loss of function) bad? 

 

Because it delete DHT, Androsterone, Androstanediol, 5a-DHP and Allopregnenolone.

11 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

 

Point stands. Why is temporary inhibition of 5AR (although I think its more like temporary reduction, inhibition indicates 100% loss of function) bad? 

You tagged me i this for a reason , right? even tho you knew I'd come after you with the hammer beating you for all your mechanistic speculative arguments 

 

To share because it's still interesting, and ofc by malice because i like troll you a bit here and there.

Thrown a piece of baguette on michael's face*

15 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Soy in moderation is not a problem - can I get a concession on that?

Yes 👍

16 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Eating a bunch of soy is NOT the same as being full of oestrogen, my god! Phytoestrogens aren't the same thing as biological oestrogens. That's an alpha and omega difference. Read into it. You're a scientist, you enjoy this shit so read a few clinical overviews of the phytoestrogen evidence. Let the research tell you the story rather than plugging up gaps in your knowledge with pseudoscience.

They are still oestrogen receptor agonist, even if they are less potent.

It's like saying psilocybin don't increases serotoninergic neurotransmition because bioidentical serotonin might be more potent.

21 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

well, at least you're not a carnivore so that's good

Eheh.

[Michael569]

12 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

by malice because i like troll you a bit here and there.

Alright, well i appreciate the tag.. it was good to refresh a few things in endocrinology i forgot about so i appreciate that 🤜🏻🤛🏻

You can do that more often 😉

I'll leave it here, need to wash that french baguette with some British lard cream 

[Someone here]

@Michael569 I don’t think it should be debated endlessly. 

Some foods are just good for testosterone like Onion and eggs etc

Some foods are good for Estrogen like Soy.

I've read a gazillion study online that affirm this .

Not really a topic of endless back and forth splitting hairs .

 

[PurpleTree]

nice

I‘m getting tired of being a high testosterone bloke anyway.

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Michael569 said:

I'll leave it here, need to wash that french baguette with some British lard cream 

Is that a new sexual euphemism?

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, UnbornTao said:

Is that a new sexual euphemism?

[UnbornTao]

18 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Hey, what are you thinking? Not my contribution.

Edited September 28, 2024 by UnbornTao

[Nemra]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Hey, what are you thinking? 

Now he can't eat his baguette. 😂

[RendHeaven]

9 hours ago, Michael569 said:

can you show me the evidence that having more testosterone (above average) gives me some exceptional health benefits? 

Hot girls love me

[Michael569]

Ok i think it's time for a forum break once again 😅

Edited September 28, 2024 by Michael569

[Keryo Koffa]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

Ok i think it's time for a forum break once again 😅

On 7/30/2024 at 6:04 PM, Yimpa said:

I’m taking a break from all you freaks!!! 

Great minds think alike!

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Ok i think it's time for a forum break once again 😅

[Sugarcoat]

19 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Because it decreases growth factors (igf1, mTOR...)

If the cells divide less quickly, you will supposedly last longer over time because the more cells divide, the more telomeres shorten and lose their ability to divide properly and therefore ultimately to divide at all, and automatically you more and more look "older".
I don't know exactly the consequences of this on the quality of life, probably not so good especially since I have seen a lot of testimonies that growth hormone inducers like the ghrelin agonist ibutamoren, or direct injections of growth hormones allow you to feel good, improve the quality of your skin, improve sleep etc.

ok thnx

Quote

19 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Ofc my great full of prolactin grasshopper.

 

hehe

Quote

19 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

He also had multiples cosmetic surgery and others intrusive practices, btw.

 

didnt know

Quote

19 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

It's not worth the rum raisin ice cream but you and the others were not going to understand, one day will come.
Otherwise the chestnut creams too, or the sweetened condensed milk, the "boules coco", the dark chocolates with nazelnuts nestle, the walnut cake of perigord (my region).

French obese snaks

 

i wont understand until I try lol

rest sounds good hehe

[Schizophonia]

22 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Hey, what are you thinking? Not my contribution.

As the saying goes, it's not gay if there is not eyes contact.

9 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

i wont understand until I try lol

rest sounds good hehe

One more step in francization 

9 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

 

didnt know

Actually he don't even looks so good.

Markus rothkranz looks as good without all theses practices and is almost 20 years older.

Or David Sinclair also, for exemple.

[Schizophonia]

9 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

11 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

Great minds think alike!

12 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Ok i think it's time for a forum break once again 😅

The spiritual elite.

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

One more step in francization 

Halfway there