About bullying, domination, 'devilry', etc...

[Joshe]

4 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

There is no evil, but there is wasting time like a boss arguing without nuance & perspectival integration

Can you explain? 

I am wasting time like a boss but I'm not arguing without nuance, and lacking "perspectival integration" seems assumptious. 

Maybe "evil" has too much baggage. What I call evil is "that which is detrimental to the individual and/or the whole". The more detrimental, the more evil. Both the individual AND the collective are taken into account when assessing detriment. Of course, what's good for one thing is often bad for another and vice versa, but this truth does not make me indifferent to that which is detrimental. I don't know how any spiritual person ever could be indifferent to that which is detrimental. I can see how they think it makes sense, but I think it's fallacious af.

If perspectives are detrimental, I don't simply say "that there's another perspective" and ignore that it's detrimental, because that is absurd and I don't think any amount of consciousness or spiritual development would produce an attitude of indifference in this regard. This doesn't mean I am narrowly focused in on some evil to the point that I lose sight or can't, in a single second, go into a higher perspective.

I've chosen to value that which is good and my chosen highest good is the health and peace of the the planet and all life on it. If I make that decision and honor it, I have to make distinctions of what is good and what is bad for it. Hence, I will call bullies and rapists "bad" or "evil" or "detrimental" to my chosen highest good. This is not a blindspot.. it's intentional. I could decide to tear down all these structures I've built, but I choose not to. They were put in place for a reason. Sort of like how you have to fabricate your life purpose, you have to fabricate what is the highest good. This game is better than the indifference game. 

What is wrong with this position? I do not see any flaws. Maybe it's too much head and not enough heart. 

Edited September 26 by Joshe

[Keryo Koffa]

56 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Can you explain? 

I am wasting time like a boss but I'm not arguing without nuance, and lacking "perspectival integration" seems assumptious. 

Maybe "evil" has too much baggage. What I call evil is "that which is detrimental to the individual and/or the whole". The more detrimental, the more evil. Both the individual AND the collective are taken into account when assessing detriment. Of course, what's good for one thing is often bad for another and vice versa, but this truth does not make me indifferent to that which is detrimental. I don't know how any spiritual person ever could be indifferent to that which is detrimental. I can see how they think it makes sense, but I think it's fallacious af.

If perspectives are detrimental, I don't simply say "that there's another perspective" and ignore that it's detrimental, because that is absurd and I don't think any amount of consciousness or spiritual development would produce an attitude of indifference in this regard. This doesn't mean I am narrowly focused in on some evil to the point that I lose sight or can't, in a single second, go into a higher perspective.

I've chosen to value that which is good and my chosen highest good is the health and peace of the the planet and all life on it. If I make that decision and honor it, I have to make distinctions of what is good and what is bad for it. Hence, I will call bullies and rapists "bad" or "evil" or "detrimental" to my chosen highest good. This is not a blindspot.. it's intentional. I could decide to tear down all these structures I've built, but I choose not to. They were put in place for a reason. Sort of like how you have to fabricate your life purpose, you have to fabricate what is the highest good. This game is better than the indifference game. 

What is wrong with this position? I do not see any flaws. Maybe it's too much head and not enough heart. 

You were not the one this response was meant toward, in fact, you probably introduced the most nuance here.
And with wasting time, I meant ignoring alternate perspectives and straying away from a steelmanned synthesis.
None of this was meant for you. You would serve as the antithesis, gathering various sources and perspectives.
Yet you were hooked by the "There is no evil" part and that's interesting, so to respond to that part specifically:

There is no evil, no action is done out of evil, out of restlessness, recklessness, hate, desire, passion but not evil.
Done out of inferiority, superiority, trauma, ignorance, negligence, lack of compassion, connection but not evil.
There are forces, contradictions, conflicts of interest, zero-sum games, negative sum outcomes, and yet no evil.
There is hate, violence, desperation, coldness, suffering, sadism, pain, and grief, and still, there is no evil in sight.

There is no evil that drives behavior and no evil to justify retaliation. All actions are driven, motivated, authentic.
But there is no evil to blame and no evil to resent, no evil to scapegoat, and no person to dismiss as simply evil.
No person is evil, people act in ways that seem evil and are detrimental to you, but evil has nothing to do with it. 

Detriments are within your perspective and your responsibility & opportunity. And detriments are not evil.
Change is specific, circumstantial, evil is a label, and an easy one to dismiss blocks of reality without facing them.

You reminded me of a passage that seems well suited towards you:

"Quite simply, a belief in the good without a belief in the evil, may seem highly unrealistic to you. This belief, however, is the best kind of insurance that you can have, both during physical life and afterward.

It may outrage your intellect, and the evidence of your physical senses may shout that it is untrue, yet a belief in good without a belief in evil is actually highly realistic, since in physical life it will keep your body healthier, keep you psychologically free of many fears and mental difficulties, and bring you a feeling of ease and spontaneity in which the development of your abilities can be better fulfilled. After death it will release you from the belief in demons and hell, and enforced punishment. You will be better prepared to understand the nature of reality as it is. I understand that the concept does indeed offend your intellect, and that your senses seem to deny it. Yet you should already realize that your senses tell you many things, which are not true; and I tell you that your physical senses perceive a reality that is a result of your beliefs.

Believing in evils, you will of course perceive them. Your world has not tried the experiment as yet which would release you. Christianity was but a distortion of this main truth - that is, organized Christianity as you know it. I am not simply speaking here of the original precepts. They were hardly given a chance, and we will discuss some of this later in the book."

[Schizophonia]

17 hours ago, Nemra said:

Let's say your kid gets bullied every day, and someday you become aware of that. What would you think about it?

You don't want to protect your kid because "it's good", you want protect your kid because you love him and it's your egoistic interest to see him happy or at least safe.

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Keryo Koffa said:

There is no evil, no action is done out of evil, out of restlessness, recklessness, hate, desire, passion but not evil.
Done out of inferiority, superiority, trauma, ignorance, negligence, lack of compassion, connection but not evil.
There are forces, contradictions, conflicts of interest, zero-sum games, negative sum outcomes, and yet no evil.
There is hate, violence, desperation, coldness, suffering, sadism, pain, and grief, and still, there is no evil in sight.

There is no evil that drives behavior and no evil to justify retaliation. All actions are driven, motivated, authentic.
But there is no evil to blame and no evil to resent, no evil to scapegoat, and no person to dismiss as simply evil.
No person is evil, people act in ways that seem evil and are detrimental to you, but evil has nothing to do with it. 

Detriments are within your perspective and your responsibility & opportunity. And detriments are not evil.
Change is specific, circumstantial, evil is a label, and an easy one to dismiss blocks of reality without facing them.

Thanks @Keryo Koffa - I know this is true. I appreciate you articulating it. Fully integrating this will be my next big leap but I'm not sure when I'll take it. There's something about it that troubles me. I have fully embraced it in a trip before and it was probably the most impactful experience of my life. I'm not afraid of letting go of my positionalities but it feels like I can't carry the weight of the love or something. I tear up just thinking about it.

Yeah, I did get hooked by "There is no evil". The trouble with communicating on the forum is that it's hard to know which ideas are directed at or suitable for whom, and it's easy to get wires crossed. I try my best to read personalities and tailor my communications to them or the situation, so ideas for one might not be suited for another... and of course, some of my ideas can just not be good. Also, I sometimes fuse communications meant for multiple people into a single message, and one person might get it but I confuse the other... lol. 

Edited September 26 by Joshe

[Keryo Koffa]

@Joshe There's definitely something very powerful and universal behind that, though I can't quite catch it yet.

As for the forum communication, it's fine, it's all about throwing out responses (posts/threads) and everyone coming together and seeing who holds strong opinions to discuss. I myself definitely had profound moments of getting triggered and still do sometimes at certain responses. But we grow after the initial reaction, sometimes from calming down and observing it, and other times by releasing the self-doubt that was previously hidden. At the end of the day, we're all a bunch of infinitely interactive holons flying around in the aether, finding each other through various gravitational forces 😁

[Keryo Koffa]

@Joshe I just went through some amazing resources @BlueOak posted on the other thread
One of them is a visualization of the evil polarity we were talking about:
https://integrallife.com/the-myth-of-evil-why-polarities-not-villains-drive-injustice/

[Joshe]

Sweet. Thanks @Keryo Koffa. I'll check that out. I'm dealing with the fallout from hurricane Helene and this is the first I've had a chance to hop on here. Laptop is dying again. I shall return. 

[Keryo Koffa]

10 hours ago, Joshe said:

Sweet. Thanks @Keryo Koffa. I'll check that out. I'm dealing with the fallout from hurricane Helene and this is the first I've had a chance to hop on here. Laptop is dying again. I shall return. 

I wish you luck