Very mysterious phrase of sadhguru

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

no idea, the ones that follow them like a rockstar and fall to his feet are probably still seeking 😂

He promises you what everyone deep down wants: enlightenment, the end of suffering. You just have to give up your will, and give it to him. It is a demon that wants to possess you and take away your sovereignty. No one who surrenders his will will achieve anything, because for enlightenment you have to realize that only you exist because you are the whole existence, you are the total reality, perceive yourself as unlimited, and to open yourself to that sadhguru cannot be vampirizing you.

Edited September 25 by Breakingthewall

[Javfly33]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

He promises you what everyone deep down wants: enlightenment, the end of suffering. You just have to give up your will, and give it to him. It is a demon that wants to possess you and take away your sovereignty.

Yes, I guess is possible is a trick of the human psyche, more games, more tricks to feel above the other.

Quote

No one who surrenders his will will achieve anything, because for enlightenment you have to realize that only you exist because you are the whole existence,

 @Breakingthewall But what if that surrenders is what makes Realization happens?

Since what surrenders really is the person/ego/the psychological force, not the Reality. 

The Existence is still there whether one surrenders or not, but maybe if one surrenders then the Existence can appear. 

And it wouldn´t be your will what surrenders, is not like you stop eating or something for him or he put chains around you, more that you dissolve the barrier of him being a person.

Surrendering the will would be more like fanatical thinking, like, ok, im going to let this guy just enslave me. That I agree is toxic.

Edited September 25 by Javfly33

[gettoefl]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

He promises you what everyone deep down wants: enlightenment, the end of suffering. You just have to give up your will, and give it to him. It is a demon that wants to possess you and take away your sovereignty. No one who surrenders his will will achieve anything, because for enlightenment you have to realize that only you exist because you are the whole existence, you are the total reality, perceive yourself as unlimited, and to open yourself to that sadhguru cannot be vampirizing you.

My take is that while awakening to higher self requires individual effort and introspection, it’s important to recognize that we are not isolated fragments. Progress necessitates leaning on one's higher self to help us move beyond our limited perception. Self reliance will typically lead to a cycle of self-reinforcement, where the very patterns we seek to overcome remain stubbornly intact. Openness to something greater - whether you view it as god, spirit, or higher consciousness - helps break these barriers of the lower self and allows for deeper clarity and mind healing.

Without this connection, the journey can become circular, trapping us in the limitations we aim to transcend. Cooperation with this higher self, when understood not as loss of autonomy but as release from self-imposed limitations, becomes essential for experiencing a fuller, more expansive understanding of ourselves on the path to awakening. Hand over the reins to your higher self to put the lower self to bed once and for all,

[Javfly33]

Think it like this, imagine if your wife cheats on you with a guy that you really hate.

If at that moment you completely surrender to your wife cheating you with the guy you hate...You got it. That´s surrender.

Because... what is what you have to surrender? Only what you have built in your mind about what is your wife and what is that man you hate.

Your wife cheating you with the guy you hate can be an enlightment possibility, if you completely surrender to them and what they did fully... The Door opens...for the one that is willing to insanely fall in Love with Reality when it throws you the most utter filth you can imagine. 

 

And now sadhguru phrase comes to mind: 

"If i tell them what they have to swallow, they will say is impossible and run away"

Edited September 25 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

My take is that while awakening to higher self requires individual effort and introspection, it’s important to recognize that we are not isolated fragments. Progress necessitates leaning on one's higher self to help us move beyond our limited perception. Self reliance will typically lead to a cycle of self-reinforcement, where the very patterns we seek to overcome remain stubbornly intact. Openness to something greater - whether you view it as god, spirit, or higher consciousness - helps break these barriers of the lower self and allows for deeper clarity and mind healing.

Without this connection, the journey can become circular, trapping us in the limitations we aim to transcend. Cooperation with this higher self, when understood not as loss of autonomy but as release from self-imposed limitations, becomes essential for experiencing a fuller, more expansive understanding of ourselves on the path to awakening. Hand over the reins to your higher self to put the lower self to bed once and for all,

 in my opinion and my experience it's much simpler, you are the whole reality, not a fragment. In infinity there are not fragments. The openess is not a process, is something that happens in an instant. Those things about past lifes, 84 universes, siddis, etc are just relative things, same than gain money of have sex, just things that happen among infinite things, you don't want to get lost in them, they don't mean nothing from an absolute perspective. What you want is open yourself to the totality, see yourself. You are the totality, the absolute reality. You have to look inside and break all the barriers, nothing more. 

[Breakingthewall]

16 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

If i tell them what they have to swallow, they will say is impossible and run away"

That's fake, from an absolute perspective you don't have to swallow anything, you exist, that's all, you are the existence. Maybe sadhguru doesn't understand that because he's lost in his 84 universes? That's the same than get lost in 84 brothels fucking all the prostitutes, maybe its interesting, but it's just a distraction. 

Edited September 25 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 in my opinion and my experience it's much simpler, you are the whole reality, not a fragment. In infinity there are not fragments. The openess is not a process, is something that happens in an instant. Those things about past lifes, 84 universes, siddis, etc are just relative things, same than gain money of have sex, just things that happen among infinite things, you don't want to get lost in them, they don't mean nothing from an absolute perspective. What you want is open yourself to the totality, see yourself. You are the totality, the absolute reality. You have to look inside and break all the barriers, nothing more. 

You are saying this is instantaneous. For me readiness and earnestness is mandatory. Reminds me of the saying that enlightenment may be an accident but anyone can make themselves more accident prone. There are steps one can take and help one can receive. In this, existence has one's back at every step and will reward effort and devotion and to that end one has to commit whole-heartedly. The ego structure needs to be understood in totality before its unwinding can take effect. The reverse thought system - love instead of fear - needs to be implemented before the shift of perception can fully take hold. All the while one's true self is aiding and abetting and cheerleading and coaxing to make smooth one's journey. Help is definitely needed and required in my personal experience.

Edited September 25 by gettoefl

[Javfly33]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's fake, from an absolute perspective you don't have to swallow anything, you exist, that's all, you are the existence. 

Yeah of course , I agree.

But why the existence is veiled? Because a certain psychological structure is there...

When i say surrender to your wife fucking the dude you hate...thats a movement towards the annihiliation of the psychological structure that we want .

imo Where the ego does not want to go, thats precisely where it needs to go, over and over until it gets the point. 

Edited September 25 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

Yeah of course , I agree.

But why it is veiled? Because a certain psychological structure is there...when I mean, surrender to your wife fucking the dude you hate...thats a movement towards annhiliation of the psychological structure.

 

Yes but if you surrender all your psychological structure it's not something horrible to swallow as sadhguru said, it's total liberation. Who cares about your wife and about that guy? You are infinity, they could fuck 1000 times if they want, you could get blind and have cancer, if you are open to the absolute you wouldn't care at all. The problem is that it's extremely difficult to break the magnetism of our human structure, it's possible to to in some moments, but completely...let's see. Anyway, one second compared with nothing is an universe of difference 

[gettoefl]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes but if you surrender all your psychological structure it's not something horrible to swallow as sadhguru said, it's total liberation. Who cares about your wife and about that guy? You are infinity, they could fuck 1000 times if they want, you could get blind and have cancer, if you are open to the absolute you wouldn't care at all. The problem is that it's extremely difficult to break the magnetism of our human structure, it's possible to to in some moments, but completely...let's see. Anyway, one second compared with nothing is an universe of difference 

For this to happen, false self needs to be crucified and from the ashes true self needs to be resurrected

That's a death and arising that doesn't come out of thin air; it takes tremendous application and determination

[Breakingthewall]

53 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

For this to happen, false self needs to be crucified and from the ashes true self needs to be resurrected

That's a death and arising that doesn't come out of thin air; it takes tremendous application and determination

Not so tremendous, just being absolutely honest with yourself and have a determination like a laser , and over all knowing that there is not another choice . You are trapped, you have to break you free, another option is the hell

Edited September 25 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Tell me, if you would be a negro in slavery america and the price for Enlightment is surrendering to your Master that slaved all your family and treated like dogs all your life , would you do it?

I think it works in the other sense, you open yourself to the infinity and then all the emotional charge dissapear. It's not that first you have to surrender, it's impossible, you can't , because "you" is the resistance. "You" can't decide stop being "you" because "you" is precisely "you". The only that you can do is be smart and break little by little like the prisoner of Alcatraz, and in some moment, the prison is gone, then you see that master that slaved you and for you it's just the reality. You could kill him in a given moment, it's also just the reality. 

Edited September 25 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, gettoefl said:

The reverse thought system - love instead of fear - needs to be implemented before the shift of perception can fully take hold.

For me it was impossible. I hated my father, not a joke, I really hated him. Seems to me that life had a strong point of hate. Obviously, I wanted to be free of that shit, but was absolutely impossible, it was in my mind, like a cancer. One night I thought absolutely true: i would like dissapear and never have existed. Then the reality dissapeared, just an instant, but wasnt self anymore.  Then I started to break my psyche with psychedelics like a hammer, again and again, in a quite crazy process, then one day I realized that I saw myself, that my heart was open, and my mind too, and I never thought again about my father with emotional charge even for 1 second 

Edited September 25 by Breakingthewall

[Carl-Richard]

14 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

What the hell does he mean in the part of "if you really tell them what they are supposed to swallow, they will just say this is impossible and run away"

Fucking mysterious dude.

If you present someone with the truth as plainly as possible, you will either say literally nothing or something extremely vacuous like "you are it", "this is the truth", "Oneness". That often isn't very helpful, so you instead try to poke them in the right direction, which is not a straightforward process (and it's often different for different people, and they can be in different stages of the process). People's minds are a mess, and they're constantly tricking themselves, so you have to "trick them back" to unwind that mess. So the guru is a jester in that sense, trying to trick them into seeing the truth.

Edited September 25 by Carl-Richard

[Javfly33]

@Breakingthewall What do you think of something ive heard sadhguru saying recently,

He said something like 'your business is doing the practices and tools that have been given you, I'll handle the rest'.

He was speaking in regards to Liberation or Full Enlightment, he later said "For Liberation, apart from your psychological structure There are forces in Existence outside of your reach, Thats the usefulness of a Guru, I´ll handle those".

 

Edited September 25 by Javfly33

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Javfly33 said:

@Breakingthewall What do you think of something ive heard sadhguru saying recently,

He said something like 'your business is doing the practices and tools that have been given you, I'll handle the rest'.

He was speaking in regards to Liberation or Full Enlightment, he later said "For Liberation, apart from your psychological structure There are forces in Existence outside of your reach, Thats the usefulness of a Guru, I´ll handle those".

Sounds scammy uh? to keep you under the chain endlessly LOL. 

You can literally awaken by just looking a guru in the eyes. Never underestimate the power of Grace.

[Hojo]

Hes talking like he is Morpheus taking the red or blue pill. No one in reality wanted to take the pill only Morpheus knew the one person who be able to handle the truth. Only Neo 'The One', 'God' can take the pill.

Edited September 25 by Hojo

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

For Liberation, apart from your psychological structure There are forces in Existence outside of your reach, Thats the usefulness of a Guru, I´ll handle those".

Sounds scammy uh? to keep you under the chain endlessly LOL. 

Sounds totally to the so old business. That business that the devil did using books that pretended being books of liberation, like the Koran or the Bible, and they are books of slavery. It is something diabolical, like Sauron's ring, a ring that you believe sets you free and binds you deep in the darkness. It possesses you like a psychic parasite and castrates you, then maintain you is a kind of  narcotic state, like drugged , thinking that another thing would be much worse, you need the drug, the real liberation maybe in next life. 

Edited September 25 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

apart from your psychological structure There are forces in Existence outside of your reach, Thats the usefulness of a Guru, I´ll handle those".

Then, he will handle the forces that are outside, of millions of devotes? He's like Jesus then, who liberated all the humankind, even they didn't seem very liberated. He is scaring us with those external forces, telling that we depend of him, if not we will go to hell, like the Christianity said. He is a demon 😅. More toxic is impossible 

[Lyubov]

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It seems like the usual attitude of sadhguru, he treats people like children who are on a lower level who have to tell white lies to make them happy. In my opinion he is a narcissist who laughs at his own jokes and greatly enjoys the attention he receives.

I agree, I like Sadhguru but I don’t believe in telling white lies and I don’t approve of the hierarchy he creates with his teachings. He’s not my guru, nor do I have one, and I believe guru culture in general is antiquated and limiting for the truly independent. 

Edited September 25 by Lyubov