Pro-Palestine Bias?

[Nemra]

36 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

He isn't Israeli, he is the son of former Head of hamas.

Well, he is talking like a Zionist.

He's completely ignoring what Israel has been doing while focusing on Hamas's doings.

Isn't it interesting that Zionists only focus on stuff like Hamas and their terror without context?

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[Nemra]

Ironically, it's Zionists' fault that people are empathizing with the Palestinians' struggle, which could make those people blind to the issues among Palestinians. It's as if Zionists are deliberately doing that to find justifications to continue their job.

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Nemra said:

Well, he is talking like a Zionist

"Zionism" is already an infected word.

Zionism has and had variety of streams and values systems and attitudes inside it that all interpret the word in different ways.

His style is indeed rough but this isn't necessarily a bad thing because it also means he talks from his heart and experience as a son of one of hamas's co founders.

The style of some Palestinians key people is also often similar.

I think they both got right points and are blind to valid points of each other.

Mossab provides an important part of the pazzle as this is a multi layered problem that doesn't have a single cause.

Edited October 22 by Nivsch

[Nemra]

What point did that ex-Hamas guy made that I missed?

The debate wasn't even fair.

Piers wasn't interrupting that guy for his personal attacks, threats, and belittling of Palestinians.

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Nemra said:

Well, he is talking like a Zionist.

He’s talking like a hamas member, he just switched sides. 

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Nemra said:

What point did that ex-Hamas guy made that I missed?

Mainly the ideological component of the terror that part of it would happen just from the mere existence of a Jewish defined entitiy in their region. Thats it, even if no oppression were to occure at all.

Edited October 22 by Nivsch

[Nemra]

Didn't Jews purchase lands, settle, and discriminate against Palestinians?

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Nemra said:

Didn't Jews purchase lands, settle, and discriminate against Palestinians?

I will put for a moment aside the 'discriminate' for its complexity.

About that they purchased lands and settled there I agree.

The Pro-Israeli side can claim back that those actions mostly weren't intended to be violent or forceful, but the fear among the Palestinians made them to react harshly to this, what caused an escalation. What do you think?

Edited October 22 by Nivsch

[Nemra]

I think that Palestinians were also afraid of not being properly represented.

Imagine being told that others would have about half of your country, even though those people aren't majority. Is that fair?

Also, it was thought that Palestinians should be displaced. How would you react to that?

[Nemra]

32 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

About that they purchased lands and settled there I agree.

But did they ask Palestinians permission?

It's not that the Palestinians didn't accept living with Jews; they did live with them before the conflict if I'm correct.

Edited October 22 by Nemra

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Nemra said:

But did they ask Palestinians permission?

🤷‍♂️ I will further check.

[Nivsch]

23 hours ago, Nemra said:

It's not that the Palestinians didn't accept living with Jews; they did live with them before the conflict if I'm correct.

But only the fact that more and more Jews started to come here is by itself an enough reason for Palestinians to start to react from fear and develop hostility towards the Jews. I think it is a snowball with no one to blame for.

[Nemra]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

But only the fact that more and more Jews started to come here is by itself an enough reason for Palestinians to start to react from fear and develop hostility towards the Jews. I think it is a snowball with no one to blame for.

But why were they allowed to go to Palestine in the first place?

Why did they think that they would be safe in Palestine?

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Nemra said:

But why were they allowed to go to Palestine in the first place?

Did they really have another choice?

After what happaned, any other land except Israel-Palestine would leave them just more humilliated and meaningless inside. It would be likely impossible physically and surely impossible in the psychological sense.

Edited October 23 by Nivsch

[Nemra]

Well, it surely was the perfect time to start to implement the project of Israel.

[allseeker205]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Did they really have another choice?

After what happaned, any other land except Israel-Palestine would leave them just more humilliated and meaningless inside. It would be likely impossible physically and surely impossible in the psychological sense.

Can you explain further why Jews had no other choice but to go to Palestine specifically? There were other options for a jewish state. Any reason that references it being their homeland 2000 years ago doesn't satisfy me. As an African American, I would never advocate for us to move back to western Africa and reclaim land, even though we faced hundreds of years of slavery/Jim Crow laws. Especially considering that there are people currently living there. How would that make me as somebody with African ancestry safer? I wonder the same thing about Israel and how it makes jews safer.

[Scholar]

2 hours ago, allseeker205 said:

Can you explain further why Jews had no other choice but to go to Palestine specifically? There were other options for a jewish state. Any reason that references it being their homeland 2000 years ago doesn't satisfy me. As an African American, I would never advocate for us to move back to western Africa and reclaim land, even though we faced hundreds of years of slavery/Jim Crow laws. Especially considering that there are people currently living there. How would that make me as somebody with African ancestry safer? I wonder the same thing about Israel and how it makes jews safer.

I think if there was an attempt by the western world to genocide your entire race of people, succeeding in eradicating half of your entire world population, you might change your mind, especially if you had been born more than a century before today.

If you had the option to go back to africa, buying some land there, I don't know if you could really be blamed if you did it.

 

Remember, the jews had no state. There was no place where they would truly feel safe, especially given anti-semitism was not unique to germany at all.

Edited October 23 by Scholar

[allseeker205]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

I think if there was an attempt by the western world to genocide your entire race of people, succeeding in eradicating half of your entire world population, you might change your mind, especially if you had been born more than a century before today.

If you had the option to go back to africa, buying some land there, I don't know if you could really be blamed if you did it.

 

Remember, the jews had no state. There was no place where they would truly feel safe, especially given anti-semitism was not unique to germany at all.

Millions of African people were drug from their homes to America to be slaves and many of them died in the process. They were stripped of all their cultural ties, customs, and even given new names and religions. African Americans today truly have no "home" to go to either. We have had to fight for our rights in the country we are in today. 

Also, the Jews didn't buy all the land they acquired in 1947, and they certainly didn't buy all the land they have today. That's a gross understatement of how Israel was created. It also doesn't address the question at all. Why did they specifically have to go to Palestine other than the reason that my great great great great great grandfather probably lived here 2,000 years ago? I don't see how that was supposed to make them any safer. Most Jewish people in the world today live in America without facing any serious existential threats. I understand that wasn't exactly an option in 1947, but the point is that other options could've been feasible in the long run other than creating a forced state which is what we today call Israel.

Edited October 23 by allseeker205